Review: 2019 GC in retrospect

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by manfromgallifrey91, Jul 8, 2019.

  1. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    Let's take a look at him (and Morales!) then. I think he has been in a camp under Berhalter, no?
  2. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think Nagbe deserves a look... I’m not saying he’s the second coming and should receive indefinite chances. I’m just saying, I think he offers a lot more than Roldan.

    I definitely agree we should see Morales. We need a player with some bite and mobility, and Fredo offers that.
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  3. mette72

    mette72 Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    How is this even possible? Is incompetence just truly taking over? Bradley is terrible, he requires...REQUIRES...that other players cover for his weaknesses and play more than one position. Go to a game and specifically watch’s disgusting that he gets selected over and over.

    Seeing Bradley play makes me realize just how good Jermaine Jones was, when they played together...since JJ had to be in two places at once.

    It’s so obvious that Stevie Wonder can see it!
  4. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Now that the GC is over, maybe we can get a clear plan from Gregg and Earnie. Since his hire, GB has contradicted himself many times on whether he is focused on 2022 or the GC19.

    Did he bring Ream, Bradley, Altidore, Zardes because they were the best right now for this tournament? Looking at the roster and his starting 11s, the goal seemed to be to win this tournament irregardless of the future (sent "our striker of the future" home). But then, in the Final, he seems to play the second half like a training exercise.

    That is what he said. But then why bring Lewis? Lewis had finally started getting PT in MLS. Now he has been gone for weeks and didn't play a minute. Wouldn't 6 games in MLS have been better? Why not bring a veteran there who you would be ok playing? Why not bring Sargent instead of Lewis?

    He didn't bring Antonee Robinson. Does that mean that GB doesn't see him as 2022 possibility or that GB wanted to win now? But 1-0 down, he is bringing in Lovitz for Ream. Why? Why was Lovitz on the roster, he barely played. Why not bring Robinson who could maybe create some offense? The roster was strange from the beginning.

    The roster was made to play with Adams as a RB. When Adams got hurt, the 2/6 RB hybrid role was dropped, but the rest of the roster was still set up to play that way. With a bunch of Camp Cupcakers there who knew how to do it. If we were just playing a 4-3-3, there were players left at home that could have helped.

    If we were trying to win the GC to instill a "winning culture" than why didn't we try 100%? Why did we bring inferior players and practice playing out of the back in the second half of the final? Why, following the loss, does GB go in and say Mexico are better and we tried and orange slices for everyone?

    How is it possible the entire post game press conference happened and not one media member asked about Boyd?
  5. coachd24

    coachd24 Member

    Feb 22, 2013
    RC Lens
    If Pulisic and Altidore hit the frame in the 1st half we are having a very different conversation right now.


    1. There is a core of 7-8 we can build around. Steffen, Brooks, Miazga/Long, Adams, McKennie, Pulisic should be in every roster.

    2. Cannon can handle playing at this level for qualifying purposes.

    3. Jozy, if fit, still has a role on this team in some way.

    4. McKennie started to show signs of being a leader and am interested to see how he translates it to his Schalke season.

    5. CB's. I think Brooks, Miazga, Long, CCV give us a comfortable feeling at CB and am really looking forward to see how Richard develops.


    1. There is not much depth outside of those core 7-8. A lot of those players disappointed and could be surpassed by the U20 pool in 12 months.

    2. No clear style of play. There was glimpses of a high press, a pinched in RB and the next game it was completely different. The team was together for a good period of time and they still looked confused as to what was expected.

    3. Thanks but no thanks. Ream, Gonzalez, Lovitz, Zardes, Trapp, Lima, Lewis all showed enough that I don't want to see them again.

    4. A loss is a loss. A win last night sends a message that the US is back and instead just leaves more question marks and gives Mexico even more momentum heading into the 19-20 season.

    5. Sargent spent a summer without playing. Whether it was the U20 or the GC he needed minutes in a US shirt and we didn't get it. Jozy/Zardes are not the long term answer and a good GC from Sargent would have cemented him as the starter.

    Ironically I think the most important part of this summer was the performance of the U20's and the potential they showed. The question now is 1) how quickly can they get first team minutes in Europe and 2) when does GB give them a chance in the first team. Right off the bat with a "friendly" vs Mexico in September I think you start with (club/injury permitting)

    Horvath (let Steffen settle in Germany)

    On the bench: CCV, Long/Miazga, Cannon, Pomykal, Holmes, Arriola + 6 others. With the last 6 does GB go with vets like Zardes/Altidore/Bradley or take chances on some U23 players. I hope it is the latter but I am guessing it will be the vets.
  6. PacmanJr_00

    PacmanJr_00 Member

    Aug 29, 2010
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    and if Mexico finishes more of their chances, we still lose...pointless to even make reference to missed chances for only one team

    on coach's roster decisions, after seeing bradley's play, it is clear the best midfield was more than likely adams, mckennie, and pulisic. how strange for coach to move adams out to rb, as if he needed to find a way to keep bradley on the field.
  7. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Steffen - CORE
    He had a solid tourney. Made the routine saves and a couple of very good ones. Didn't cost us any goals. A little dicey with ball at feet.

    He is the clear #1 right now, though he's really done little to earn that spot. This tourney did help though. I feel he's stagnated in MLS so it's good he is moving on immediately. If he establishes as a #1 in Germany, it will be difficult to wrestle the shirt away from him.

    Johnson - Depth
    Had little to do in his one appearance. He was fine.

    I doubt he makes many more appearances for the Nats. 30 isn't old for a GK, but there is no reason to invest in him at this time.

    Miller - Depth
    He didn't play

    He's an option for next Cupcake. We'll see, but I would put several other MLS GK ahead of him on my chart (starting with Hamid).

    Ream - Phase Out
    He got better as the tourney went on. He was good against Mexico actually after looking pretty poor early in the rounds.

    Ream should not be playing LB. I know in GG system he's more a LCB, but he still can be exposed wide. Also will add pretty close to zero offensively. At 31 he is solidly a Championship level CB. We have 21 & 23 year old solid Championship CBs as well (not too mention a bunch of other guys). Probably should not be called again.

    Lovitz - Nah
    Did not look particularly good in limited time.

    He's an OK MLS player. That's it and that's all. Someone has to play left back, but there should be 10 guys tried there before we'd cycle back to Lovitz.

    Long - CORE
    Long had a very good tournament.

    For now, Aaron Long is a starter. I do not believe that he will prove out as a long-term lock, but based on this performance there is no need to move him.

    Miazga - CORE
    A bit of a strange journey this cup. What exactly pushed him to the lineup after not initially being favored I'd like to know. Was somewhat culpable on Jamaica's goal. Fairly lights out against Mexico.

    At 23, he should be around a while. Might not always be a starter (he probably isn't top 2 right now), but can't see many reasons for him to be left off of rosters. Big season for him as this would be a year to play at a level to gain enough interest for Chelsea to sell him to another PL side (or equivalent).

    Zimmerman - Bench
    Did he pick up a knock? Zimmerman looked fine against two minnows, but he got benched. So we didn't learn a lot here.

    At 26, he's the same age as Long. My preference is actually Zimmerman, but he's clearly behind Long for now. We'll see if he can fight off the younger guys and keep his spot in the 23.

    Gonzalez - Out
    Meh in one match against a minnow.

    Omar should not have been called. I'm actually kind off a fan of his, but he wasn't playing well or much at all in Mexico. Coming back to MLS, at 30, it's hard to imagine him doing anything that would warrant a call up. As GGGs roomate, it might happen, but it in no way should.

    Cannon - In the Mix
    Was excellent against Jamaica. Held his own in a stiff test vs. Mexico. Biggest mover based on this Cup. Going from not on the roster to starting a final and performing well against Mexico is quite something.

    Reggie put his hat in for sure. Maybe European scouts were watching this one? He just turned 21 and had a full good season in MLS at 19/20. His play this year hasn't moved the needle much however. Go back to Dallas and kill it, he pushes Yedlin (nee Adams) for the starting job.

    Lima - Bench +?
    Nick didn't have a great tourney. Nice diving header assist, but would have liked to see more against the level of comp he played against. He was fine, but clearly GG saw something he didn't like.

    I really hope he gets a try at LB. It's possible he should be our starter there right now. In any case he's a good guy to have on your bench as he is getting comfortable playing on either side. He is what Lichaj should have been the past 8 years for this team.

    Bradley - Phase Out
    MB90 was who we thought he was here. He had a lot of good play. He's a good player overall, but his deficiencies at this point are quite obvious. He just can't keep up defensively at a high level and it's just inviting issues.

    The hate level is hard to read sometimes for a top 10, maybe top 5 player ever for us. But father time is undefeated. GGG had to have seen the issues. If he persists with MB as a key cog we will lose games. I'm ok with MB as a bench option in certain games (assuming he is willing to be a bench guy, but maybe he is not worth that and causes problems there. Don't know). Preference that he is done with the team, but I keep mind open based on his form because the quality to contribute is not completely gone.

    Trapp - Depth or nothing
    I know he played the one game but I just don't remember anything noteworthy.

    If GGG insists on the regista, he will stick around some because he is ok at that. Shouldn't happen, but we'll see. He hasn't risen above MLS average, and isn't likley to do so. I wouldn't call him, really ever.

    McKennie - Core
    Inconsistent showing for Wes over the tourney. MOTM against Jamaica, but Mexico shut that down. I did like his fire throughout, though he will have to watch the cards.

    Looks like he is a lock #8, though flexibility to move around is not a bad thing either. Has enough of everything that you'd want in that spot, just needs to get better. This is a 20 year old with Champions League play under his belt already. Expectations I think by some are too high, but I'm pretty excited.

    Roldan - Bench
    Still has not put together a solid 90 in a USMNT shirt. It's disappointing, though he did show some flexibility here.

    Roldan is a good bench guy. He can play #8, psuedo10, #6, or on the wing. Unfortunately his level of play with the team has been poor, but I still think he's a good bet for the 23 over the next 3 years. I would like to see him tried at the #6 actually if his competition is Bradley/Trapp. He's better than those 2.

    Pulisic - WonderBoy
    Did not get on the ball enough against Mexico in the 2nd half. Whether that's on him, Gregg, the other guys, Mexico, I can't say. He was pretty awesome in most of the games though.

    Only question is where he plays. I hope this Chelsea thing goes well. A lot of pressure.

    Mihailovic - Nothing (for now)
    I'm really having trouble remembering that Panama game. I know he didn't impress.

    He really shouldn't have been on the 40-man but he was, and injuries to 2 guys got him a place here. He's 20, so he is definitely someone that should be watched. Go back to MLS and make your case. He's already shown he is a decent pro at that level. Take it higher. Then get to Europe in the next 2 years. Awesome if it happens, if not, oh well.

    Arriola - Bench
    Oh, if Paul had a final product. He solidified his spot as a solid piece that helps in a bunch of ways.

    Arriola is Bedoya. A guy who can start if needed, but really shouldn't. He makes for a great bench option as he can play quite a few spots and effort you some good things.

    Lewis - Nothing (for now)
    This was dumb. Should have been playing for Rapids instead of sitting here. Last night at '80 was the only reason he was here, but GGG goes Lovitz. Dumb.

    Should have not been called ever to date. Good news is it looks like Club situation is good now (though we just screwed up a month of it by having him here). Unlikely to get to the level, but at 22 and with at least a one-trick pony there's a non-zero chance.

    Morris - Bench (at best, maybe just depth)
    Was put in a role that doesn't suit him, IMHO. Weird that Holden or Strong said Berhalter picked him because of his comfort in the middle. I don't see that at all. He may have helped his stock in GGGs mind, not for me.

    He's around because there aren't tons of great options. If he can improve I see him as a bench option, but he probably shouldn't ever start or might not be good enough at all.

    Boyd - Bench, maybe more
    Weird tourney. Clearly showed quality early, but wasn't good in his last outing. Bad enough to get benched forever in GGGs mind I guess. He was better than Morris though.

    He's a welcome addition. Guy can score. Probably should have started and at the very least come on last night. Future uncertain but if we had a game tomorrow I'd start him.

    Altidore - Core (for now)
    Oh, he should have scored. Damn it could have been different. That said, he was a handful and a clear huge upgrade.

    If healthy, he's a top option for the US. Not sure he's THE top option, but for now he's a starter.

    Zardes - Out, but...
    He was awful. The Shank against Jamaica was just pure Jar Jar. Subbing him in at 0-0 was a terrible call yesterday.

    He's not good enough. I do put the "but" there, simply because the pool isn't good. I can list 10 guys ahead of him, but they all have warts or have proven nothing. The top American MLS scorer will likely always have a chance here and there. If it's Gyasi, and it could be, well...
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  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good post. But it was involved, so naturally there's a significant amount I still disagree with.

    I don't think we should use Berhalter as much in the metric because there doesn't seem to be a rhyme or reason for a lot of what he does and there are many conflicts of interest.

    That influences the placement of guys like Lima, Boyd, and Zimmerman. They should be considered winners from this tourney when it comes to a scouting standpoint. I'd trust them enough to play in a key match. Don't know what anyone can point to that they did significantly wrong.

    Morris was underrated in some games because people were waiting to pounce on him or they didn't understand the minimalist role he was being asked to play in Gregg's system. They were overloading that opposite side to give him limited opportunities and attacking mids were terrible at hitting switch passes. Defensively, he pressured well, but his positioning was poor deep. No need to throw the baby out w/ the bathwater. He's a striker by trade. Play him there. He has been effective, especially in bigger games. Look how he took that header. Unlucky to not have a goal. If he has Jozy's chance he buries it and could get more because of his ability to run in behind. And he makes key passes in and around the box in scrambles or when given any space.

    I agree w/ Roldan's classification, but have some dispute over the details. He put together a solid 90 against Martinique and Panama in the friendly. He was playing well v. Jamaica in the friendly before that late TO that wound up in the goal. Just he normally hasn't run with the opportunity because he hasn't handled the pressure and was playing soft lately. But you saw better poise in the two most important games resulting in much cleaner passing. And the bulldog came out again. He's enigmatic. I don't think I can trust him, but he's proven some utility when it matters, so he can hang around for now in a bench role.

    When it comes to Pulisic, he's our best attacker. He's the one we need right now, but I still feel like we deserve better when it comes to that classification. He's not what Donovan or Dempsey were because he ain't that bright on the field. He takes so many extra touches and misses the initial long pass. Doesn't press organized. Breaks shape. Either he evolves finally or have to hope a Weah, Pomykal, Reyna, Sargent, etc.; develop quickly to make him their Robin. Where's our Reus/Donovan, IOW Batman?

    Right now the cb's or 8's (McKennie/Adams) typically do their job better than Pulisic. And when it comes to the 8's, that's a really tough job in Gregg's system. Like they're being asked to play 2 positions.
  9. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Fire Crown 4 Life (or until they change it again)
    Jan 9, 2004
    Soldier Field Media Deck. First Row.
    Philadelphia Union
    That's kind of like saying "Assuming Ben Olsen's knee works out ok"
  10. tbonepat11

    tbonepat11 Member+

    Jun 21, 2001
    The main question really for me is the same one we have all been asking for 2 years (6 for many of us). Will we see MB again?

    If so, GB will tie his boat to that anchor and go down gloriously. He will be Arena's Agoos and Bob Bradley's Ricardo Clark.

    His player selection and subbing/tactics have me very concerned. Seemingly rudimentary decisions are not being made. Odd positional placements and relying on MB/Trapp/Zardes/Morris will not get us out of the Hex.
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  11. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    This board has upset me to no end today. 90% of the posts are completely focusing solely on negatives. We're not even talking glass half empty here. This was a solid tournament considering our disarray 6 months ago. We should be able to get an even handed list of pros and cons but we seem to be unable or unwilling.
  12. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Fire Crown 4 Life (or until they change it again)
    Jan 9, 2004
    Soldier Field Media Deck. First Row.
    Philadelphia Union
    Seriously. I feel really let down today, but it's because we could have gotten it done last night if not for a shank here or a brilliant save off the line there, not because we were completely useless. I'm ready to see what comes next for this team, so hopefully USSF announces the September friendlies soon.
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  13. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Supposedly Mexico in NJ and Uruguay somewhere.

    I know you were there last night. So was it 80-20 Mexico fans? Worse? Anything interesting to report as an actual witness?
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  14. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's because people are beyond fed up with USSF and how USSF's internal dysfunction is destroying the men's program.
  15. TyLand

    TyLand New Member

    United States
    Jul 8, 2019
    It is funny how it is so obvious on BS and yet coach after coach start him and pundit after pundit praise him. Perhaps there is wisdom here that others don't possess.
  16. CMeszt

    CMeszt Member+

    Fire Crown 4 Life (or until they change it again)
    Jan 9, 2004
    Soldier Field Media Deck. First Row.
    Philadelphia Union
    Got absolutely drenched in beer. Not in a hostile way though, more of a DC United supporters section thing going throughout the entire stadium when they scored. For all the talk about the atmosphere being "hostile" at these games, it was actually pretty festive and friendly, but 80-20 might have been generous to the US. It was similar to 2007. It was my 3rd US/MEX Gold Cup final, and CONCACAF has really stepped up the production value from years past. It truly felt like a big event whereas in the past it just felt like one of those moneygrab friendlies in terms of the stadium setup. The nighttime settling and perfect weather helped too. I will say the CONCACAF merch table was hilarious. Charging 110 for the 2016 black USA jersey and 40 for a cheap-ass scarf.

    I was in the upper deck above Jozy's miss, and it looked even worse in person than on TV. Morris really struggled. A couple times he had Pulisic/Jozy making wide open runs in the box and couldn't find them. Long cleaned up a lot of crap for the US defense, including a couple times when Cannon got caught upfield, and I was impressed with him overall. Cannon played as more of a traditional RB rather than the "Adams hybrid". McKennie had a rough night, just sloppy too many times. Didn't think Bradley was as bad as everyone said on here, though it helped that he was a lot more composed than his midfield partner. First time seeing Pulisic play live. Easily the most technically gifted player on the field, but Mexico did a good job of marking hit outlets as much as him. Taking Arriola out of the game by having the MEX wingbacks play high limited Pulisic a lot.

    Fun night but tough loss.
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  17. TyLand

    TyLand New Member

    United States
    Jul 8, 2019
    Yes, Mexico is better and has been for about 8 years now. They are at the end of an excellent cycle of players but most of them are now 30 plus, so I expect to see some changes going forward.

    Pros: The first half was some of the most entertaining and aggressive football played all summer. I liked the strategy of going at Mexico and even more I liked it that it almost paid off. The US is scoring goals again and I am back to watching the team for the first time since the-game-that-must-not-be-mentioned.
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  18. Marius Tresor

    Marius Tresor Member+

    Aug 1, 2014
  19. Smileton

    Smileton Member

    Feb 7, 2012
    Richmond, VA
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After witnessing the debacle against Jamaica in DC in person and watching the friendly against Ecuador, I was not expecting much from the US in the Gold Cup. It was both gratifying and frustrating that we made the final--I didn't think we'd make it that far, yet we could have won with a better manager. The major positive is our relative youth. Our best tournament players and some who look like they can contribute are between 20-24 (Pulisic, McKennie, Cannon, Miazga, Boyd) and then there are some proven or on the cusp players who are also relatively young (Adams, Sergent, Holmes, Weah). If we can add two or three players from the last U-20 cycle (I rate Pomykal, Dest, Richards, and Gloster) that starts looking like a pretty good core for a few World Cup cycles. In addition, there are usually a few late bloomers and players that finally break out - I'm thinking CCV, EPB, etc. Hell, there were some guys that didn't even make the U-20 team that could surprise like Christian Cappis. Sure, some of these younger players will fall off the map, but it's just as likely that some others will appear out of nowhere. I'm encouraged.
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  20. EruditeHobo

    EruditeHobo Member+

    Mar 29, 2007
    San Francisco, CA
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not when you're acknowledging the difference in the quality of the chances.

    USA had two 1v1s with the keeper, and an uncontested point blank header.
    Not the same as Mexico blasting over the bar a bunch of times, or being largely unable to find their attackers on cutbacks, inside a fairly packed box.
  21. um_chili

    um_chili Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We finished a decisive second in the Confederation. The way things looked on the eve of this tourney I thought there was a reasonable chance we might not escape the group, let alone advance to the final and compete there. So from that perspective, second is a good outcome (and a fair one--hard to argue at this point that we are objectively a better team than Mexico). But it's still unsatisfying because as a general proposition we know we can win this tournament, and in particular we could have won that game with better finishing and/or some tactical nous in response to Tata's halftime changes.

    Lots of questions about the team remain, for me the leading of which is whether GGG can learn from his mistakes and improve as a coach. But a lot of questions were answered too, and some players impressed and solidified their places in the team. So from the perspective of player development and getting in place to compete for a spot in WC22, I think this was a positive if not hugely positive tournament.

    And while the GC is much maligned and not taken seriously by many observers, I always enjoy and look forward to it. It's a chance to see the US play a bunch of meaningful games in the span of a month, and that's a rare treat for a fan given the weird and often spare international schedule. I remain disappointed in the final--mostly because I think we missed a chance to win--but overall rate the tournament as basically positive overall for the MNT.
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  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Arsenal FC
    Bradley is Mexico's favorite player. They love him.
  23. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Arsenal FC
    Didn't bring Antoneee? I seem to remember him playing. Or trying to play, anyway, before he got sent home.
  24. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    I didn't watch much of the games. Can anyone tell me if Aaron Long is the real deal at centerback or is he just taking up spots for Brooks and Miazga?
  25. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Chicago Fire
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