2019-2020 UEFA Referee Discussion [Rs]

Just awful. Before you would quietly go and warn the bench and there would be no replay shown and if some of the assistants started popping off you just sacrifice one or two of them and the rest of the bench would get the message.

Now you get this "spectacle."

The game is becoming a mess from an officiating and laws of the game standpoint.

 

I'm inclined to agree at that level. But at the youth level, I think coach cautions are very valuable. New refs often have trouble communicating what a "tell"means; and new or daddy coaches often have trouble understanding even a fairly clear "tell." But everyone understands what the yellow card means. And it also is trackable by youth leagues that care about coach behavior so that they can address misbehaving coaches in a way they may not learn about as clearly without cards being shown for cautions.

 

Not that a referee who works at this level needs my advice, but I can't help wonder how the scene would have played out if he had shown the head coach the card from a greater distance, turned, and returned his attention to the players on the field.

 

While I agree that the first incident should have been dealt with more severely, I actually think that an argument could be made that the challenge by Neymar should have been a straight red card. Frustration or not, that type of challenge has no place in the game.

 

When I saw the title of the video was Red Card, I assumed he got a straight red, especially after seeing the tackle but I was surprised to see the second yellow, instead.

 

This is where I am now. Showing youth coaches cards sends an unmistakable message to the coach that the crowd also understands - "The coach has been warned by the referee."

At the professional level with fourth officials and headsets, carding coaches is not necessary. The one and only (somewhat) positive I see from it is that it can put the coaches under the same jurisdiction as players for suspensions related to multiple yellow cards. However, I don't think that's necessary. Professional referees can simply write in game reports whether a coach received a "caution", and the leagues can treat accordingly related to coaches being suspended for "card accumulation".

 

https://www.knvb.nl/
VAR moment and the ref and VAR were right about the goalie foul.

 

Europa League Round of 32, 2nd Leg

Espanyol - Wolves: GUIDA (ITA) [Valeri (ITA)]
Istanbul Basaksehir - Sporting CP: MATEU LAHOZ (ESP) [Hernandez Hernandez (ESP)]
Ajax - Getafe: SIDIROPOULOS (GRE) [Zwayer (GER)]
Porto - Leverkusen: KOVACS (ROU) [Di Bello (ITA)]
Celtic - Copenhagen: SOARES DIAS (POR) [Lopes Martins (POR)]
Basel - APOEL: KRALOVEC (CZE) [Gil (POL)]
Sevilla - Cluj: TREIMANIS (LVA) [Attwell (ENG)]
Arsenal - Olympiacos: MASSA (ITA) [Fabbri (ITA)]
LASK - AZ Alkmaar: JOVANOVIC (SRB) [Pinheiro (POR)]
Man Utd - Brugge: GÖZÜBÜYÜK (NED) [Kamphuis (NED)]
Inter Milan - Ludogorets Razgrad: SIEBERT (GER) [Dankert (GER)]
RB Salzburg - Frankfurt: BASTIEN (FRA) [Millot (FRA)]
Benfica - Shakhtar Donetsk: KUIPERS (NED) [van Boekel (NED)]
Malmö - Wolfsburg: COLLUM (SCO) [Kavanagh (ENG)]
Gent - Roma: SANCHEZ MARTINEZ (ESP) [del Cerro Grande (ESP)]
Braga - Rangers: EKBERG (SWE) [Makkelie (NED)]

With 16 matches in the same week (plus 4 UCL matches) all having VAR, it feels as if almost every referee we are used to is in action in some role. All 10 Italian FIFA referees are in action this midweek, plus Giacomelli who is not on the FIFA list but serves as 4th official in the Arsenal - Olympiacos game.

 

Is Brych the referee with the highest number of 2CT in UCL history?

 

Brych loves himself some UCL 2nd caution red cards.

I swear I think he gives a couple every season.

He's probably given more in the CL than some MLS referees have ever done in their entire MLS careers.

 

If anyone has video, I'm surprised there was not two VAR interventions for Turpin. First, I thought there was a hand ball against Chelsea in the penalty area. Second, immediately before the VAR red card, I thought there should have been a penalty for Chelsea (assuming it was in the area - was right around the top of the box).

I'm okay with the VAR red card and don't know that Turpin could have really caught that in real time, as it's only on replay you can see the retaliatory nature of it.

Despite these KMIs, I thought he had a good game.

 

Didn't see the second, but this is the first incident...

streamja.com/XnJW

 

I think IFAB would say this should be a hand ball; I don't think it should be. But it is the kind of call that I don't think VAR should be used for--in either direction.

(And even where the arms were at their worst gets into the whole definition (or lack there of) regarding "natural" position--that was a perfectly natural position for arms to be in for balance for the kind of lunging body motion the player was making.)

 

I was watching and I never realized there was an OFR for the red card. It was really, really quick.

just a non-referee note, Bayern is good at the football.

 

That is why I didn't bother even bringing it up, after the incidents last week. Most people have no idea
what incidents will result in what decisions, even people like us, with decades of active experience in the game.

I have just resigned myself to this totally bizarre era we are now in.

PH

 

Brych has just handled his 57th UCL match. This takes him past Kim Milton Nielson on 56 into first place alone. In third place is Wolfgang Stark with 51.

In his 57 games since his debut in 2008 (Liverpool 3-1 PSV), Brych showed 227 yellow cards, 16 yellow/red cards, and 4 red cards. Assistant Mark Borsch was also with Brych for his debut, but the two were not connected by headset: Back then headset was required for international matches but not for the Bundesliga, and UEFA could not find Brych one that he was happy with in short notice, so they made an exception and let him referee without one.

Congratulations, Dr. Felix Brych!

https://www.kicker.de/770629/artikel

 

The first penalty prompted Nijhuis to have a chat with referees and KNVB about the VAR role. He was called to the screen and when seeing the push, according to the rules he had to give a penalty.
However, nobody had seen the push and nobody was asking for a penalty, no players, nor the Feyenoord fans. It had zero influence on what was going on with the ball. But the moment he was called to the screen, Nijhuis couldnot ignore the foul as he sees it on the screen. He wonders if that's a correct way to do the VAR.
Use google translate:
https://www.ad.nl/nederlands-voetba...-zeist-gaan-praten-over-rol-van-var~a835192d/

 

Thanks, nice response.
Well, OK, to an extent regarding "absolutely!" But I think that for those previous 25 years, this would meet the criteria of no PK at least 85-90% of the time. A hard shot/pass from close range and the defender turning his back towards the ball, not knowing where it is. Yes, sometimes, somebody might give the PK. But now with the newer interpretations and applications the uncertainty is much higher, and it is coupled with a real 50-50 based on very similar incidents from match to match.

We are almost saying the same thing!

Which is of course absurd and leading to all the confusion and controversy.

Which sadly is not how it should be for well-trained people.

PH

 

Orsato is nailing his KMI today. Big penalty and later DOGSO-F on Ramos correctly spotted outside the PA by AR1.

 

No argument about these decisions. Quite clear and obvious really.
Even I correctly predicted the outcomes this time!

PH