2019-20 Roster Movement Thread

Discussion in 'Sporting Kansas City' started by vividox, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I liked him. But it is a bit odd to bring back another player.
     
  2. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I admit what surprised me most in the MLS site story about this wasn't the move itself, but the roster list at the bottom of it:
    2020 Sporting KC Roster as of January 10, 2019:

    FORWARDS (7):

    Fernandes, Gerso
    Freeman, Tyler
    Hurtado, Erik
    Pulido, Alan
    Russell, Johnny
    Salloi, Daniel
    Shelton, Khiry

    MIDFIELDERS (7):

    Busio, Gianluca
    Duke, Cameron
    Espinoza, Roger
    Gutierrez, Felipe
    Hernandez, Felipe
    Sanchez, Ilie
    Kuzain, Wan

    DEFENDERS (9):

    Barath, Botond
    Besler, Matt
    Dia, Amadou
    Fontas, Andreu
    Lindsey, Jaylin
    Martins, Luis
    Puncec, Roberto
    Smith, Graham
    Zusi, Graham

    GOALKEEPERS (3):

    Dick, Eric
    Melia, Tim
    Sanchez, Richard

    Right now the total is 26. That's a pretty full roster and we are looking for another mid and maybe another striker.
     
  3. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The thing to focus on is where those roster spots are, how many senior roster spots we have open vs how many reserve and supplemental roster spots. I think there are 16 or so senior roster players right now by eyeballing the roster. That'd mean we might have 2-4 senior roster spots open.
     
  4. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Good point, so the real roster:
    Senior as of now 19 of 20
    FORWARDS (5): Gerso, Hurtado, Pulido, Russell, Shelton; MIDFIELDERS (3):
    Espinoza, Gutierrez, Sanchez; DEFENDERS (8): Barath, Besler, Dia, Fontas, Martins, Puncec, Smith, Zusi
    GOALKEEPERS (3): Dick, Melia, Sanchez
    Young players, HG:
    Forwards:(2) Freeman, Salloi; Mids: (4) Busio, Duke, Hernandez, Kuzain; Def:(1)Lindsey.
    This may be wrong, but using the SKC website on roster status this would be it. I assume one of the keepers is loaned to SKCII? It includes fontas, who at this point remains on the roster and under contract. As it stands, we have room for one more senior squadie. Even for someone who didn't know the players, the obvious need is in the midfield. If you consider that 2 of 3 senior mids enter the season with serious questions, it is much more obvious. I do think it makes it clear that Dia was a really good signing. It's also clear that our front line is pretty loaded.
    (edit to add, I was using punctuation, not emojies, and they were turned into unintended emojies, but I found it funny enough that i am leaving them)
     
  5. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Smith was on $57K last year, Dick was on $70K, I'd suspect one or both are on the supplemental roster. That knocks senior roster down to 17. I could also see Dia on the supplemental roster list, which is where I got 16.
     
  6. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    But Smith has to be paid at least the senior minimum this year, right? Jan 1 and beyond marked his second end of year with the club and he's still on the roster. Also, he was never eligible for supplimental, right, because he's not homegrown or GA? And now he's too old for Reserve, and even if 24 is still eligible, I think MLS requires he be paid senior minimum and for reserves: "These slots may not be filled with Senior Minimum Salary Players or Generation adidas Players."
    I think, though it's not as much of a raise as I thought it might be, as he earned $8000 in play bonuses, so $65k to $71k? God, MLS is really confusing.
     
  7. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No the supplemental roster is not only for GA and HGP
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/league/official-rules/mls-roster-rules-and-regulations
    So he and Dick still qualify as supplemental rostered players.
     
  8. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Really? The quote you used seems to say Smith can't. I mean, he had to be a reserve player last season, because he didn't make senior minimum, but the reserve minimum, essentially. Actually, though I'd failed to notice that there was for some reason a second level of pay for starts, beyond the $750 a game they started they also got $1250 a game.
    I mean, I'm reading the CBA and trying to make sense of this and it's a mess:
    "In addition, Reserve Players earning less than the Senior Minimum Salary shall receive a $500 bonus for each appearance they make with the first team in an MLS game during the League Season, and an additional $750 for each MLS game they start for the first team during the League Season. For avoidance of doubt, any Reserve Player earning less than the Senior Minimum Salary shall receive an additional $1,250 for each game he starts for the first team during the League
    Season.
    In the event a Reserve Player’s SPA is extended beyond December 31 of the second year of his employment, he shall be paid at least the Senior Minimum Salary. In the event MLS/Team does not extend the employment of a Reserve Player beyond the second year, MLS/Team and the Player may agree to sign a new SPA, pursuant to which, the Player is a Reserve Player provided he continues to meet the age requirement set forth in Article 2."
    Article 2, btw, seems to say under 24 but maybe 24 is included? No idea. In any case, it looks as if Smith has to be raised to senior minimum salary, but that will represent a decrease in pay from 2019 as he started 10 games for which he got both $750 and $1250, so $2000 a game, or an additional $20000, so his $57 was $77k? I'm serious, it's a mess
     
  9. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    The Gadi Kinda rumors have a lot of legs right now. He could be a very interesting signing for us, though definitely not the kind of player I would have expected...
     
  10. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Huh.
     
  11. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    and double huh:
     
  12. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    What I find, hehehe, kinda interesting and kinda encouraging about Gadi is that while trully an AM, of his 17 appearances this season, 11 have been AM, three on the right wing, and three on the left wing, and there really isn't much difference in production, goals and assists everywhere.
    Felipe G is a more natural 8, which I know is not how he's beeing a star for us, but he's pretty decent there.
    For those times when Roger is fully fit and in form, Kinda also gives us the possibility of a Kinda, Pulido (all hail Pulido, bringer of joy and life), Russell top line that is hella exciting. We don't know how his production would translate, but I don't think the Israeli league is a full step up or down from MLS. their clubs compete and sometimes do well in the Europa league, and compete and get slapped around in the UEFA CL.
    Downside: His upside is kinda recent. This year with Jerusalem is his best as a pro. Also, while we love to watch a jolly trickster, PV might not be as amused. The highlights indicate he works hard on both sides of the ball, but. you know, highlights.
    I know it's a silly season rumor, and is probably silly. But it could work for us. Now, at $4m, we would be seriously overpaying. They guy changed clubs a year ago for $1m. However, if that 4m is in sheckels, as someone somewhere said it might be, that's a breakeven for his current club.
     
  13. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah, it's an odd one for sure. He's got skills but it's not clear if he's got discipline--which was kind of the Croizet problem.

    I assume we're targeting him as a midfielder. As things stand, we have way more depth in the attacking line than the midfield one, so odds are greater he's going to be much more needed further back. Versatility never hurts when you're on a PV team, though!

    $4MM is way too high, but 4MM shekels seems way too low. Really strange finances on this one too. He's supposedly in town about now for a medical, so we'll see how this plays...
     
  14. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's kind of where I'm at, reports are now saying $3.7m, which I'm not sure of, divided out over a 4 year contract and the reported $600K salary would put him just over the buy down level for TAM. But as you said, 4m shekels is basically what he was bought for while having a break out season, that doesn't make sense either.
     
  15. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    I feel like the initial burst of rumor said it was around $3.7MM but only this second round has bumped up all the numbers... I wouldn't be surprised if none of the numbers are exactly accurate. Kind of hope we don't spend $4MM on this guy, fun as he looks. Just doesn't look like great business, especially as most folks think we got skinned on the Pulido deal.
     
  16. Buzz Killington

    Buzz Killington Member+

    Oct 6, 2002
    Lee's Summit
    Club:
    Kansas City Wizards
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agreed, spending $4m on a guy who is having his 1st "good" season is slightly worrisome, but I'd guess the real number is probably even below the $3.7m
     
  17. lukeD

    lukeD Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pulido is a known commodity who was successful in a league that is better than MLS. As Inca said, we probably overpaid but I think most believe he's as close to a slam dunk as you can get.

    What makes the Kinda rumors more worrisome is that he is not an established player and he plays in a league that is at best equal (probably worse) than MLS. While no advanced scouting was needed to ID Pulido, for Kinda we're relying on the same eyes that thought Croizet would be a successful No. 10, and who also advertised Croizet as a player that could play on the wing or in other midfield roles. The similarities are enough to cause concern, especially given the rumored dollars.
     
  18. Inca Roads

    Inca Roads Member+

    Nov 22, 2012
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah. If we paid $8MM for Pulido, it's probably not a problem. Since everyone seems to assume the highest number is accurate and that we paid into eight figures for him, then yeah we look like idiots a bit. 8 is high but not unreasonably high, especially if there were multiple teams looking at him (seems like there were).

    Difference between this guy and Croizet is this guy is excelling in his league. Croizet never really did better than okay, no matter the level he played at (including second-division ball). While a star in the Belgian league is a slam dunk ahead of a star in the Israeli league, a star in the Israeli is likely a much better gamble than a journeyman in lowlands Europe. Definitely some similar metrics between the two, but plenty of good players have come out of the Israeli league, and some to much greater heights than just KC.
     
  19. lukeD

    lukeD Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yeah, totally agree on the league and the players quality. He's one of the leagues leading scorers and plays on one of the better teams. There were rumors that BF was going to play in Israel, which gives an idea of player quality, and teams from their league have done well in Europa league. One of their teams beat my beloved Inter in Europa league only a few years ago.

    Hey, these are good problems right (spending real money on players)? SKC seem to have learned their lesson. We're no longer talking about MLS free agents, Barca B players, or guys like Croizet that were playing at levels that are obviously notches below MLS. This off-season has been the best one in recent memory. Let's hope it translates into success on the field.
     
  20. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    The one huge positive we've already gotten from Pulido (AHP. BL+J) is that we brought him in. He is an actual get in the football world, and while Ibra and Becks send this message much louder, landing him does announce that we are players. Also, his opening presser, that moment when he started waxing poetically about Pinnacle and the stadium and how much effort SKC puts into helping players. That resonates. Those quotes are now floating around, and when players in SA or CA are considering places they might land, it creates a bit of a notion that SKC is a destination. I mean, not if your name is Messi. But Vermes had a quote last year that all they have to do is convince folks to visit and the facilities can sell players. I think the Pulido comments are really important to us as far as convincing folks who might not otherwise be inclined, to take a look.
    Even if the higher number was correct, he was still necessary.
    Also, he's quite deadly in the box, and we create a crapton of chances that we can never finish. I put his topside in the mid 20s for us (just going off a percent of the blown xGs and the actual goals from that position). His low end, IMO, should be 15. That's worth $10m, IMO.
     
  21. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Before landing at SKC. Croizet started 63 our of 71 games in the Jupiler, which is the first there, and that was with only 9 other matches in which he either didn't make the bench or didn't get off it, and 6 of those coming after the SKC rumors began. He was a much bigger part of Mechelen than he was of SKC. Now, the Belgian league may not measure up to MLS, but others have made the transition from there and to leagues above MLS quality, and done quite well.
    Croizet was a bad fit and therefore a poor signing, but going by his past performances, there was reason for optimism. There was also optimism in that first camp, IIRC..
     
  22. Blando13

    Blando13 Member+

    Dec 4, 2013
    Lee's Summit, MO
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm pretty sure you meant to say "Kinda hope we don't spend ..." ... there will be no "Kind of's" on this squad anymore!
     
  23. lukeD

    lukeD Member

    Jul 7, 2011
    Olathe
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please.....Croizet is a young French player not playing in France. That is all you needed to know. The French have excellent academies and know how to scout their own. If he was any good or had any potential he would have been playing somewhere in Ligue 1, not cast away in the dogshit Belgian league. Let's call it what it was....terrible scouting.
     
  24. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    A lot of French players play outside of france, and many of those are quite good. German clubs, in 1 and 2 certainly feature them. Italian clubs do, Belgium of course. The deal with the EU open borders policy is that it doesn't matter where in the EU someone hails from, they're a local hire. Also, we've all heard the stories about that first camp. SKC players, almost to a man, thought he was the second coming. You may be right, and it may simply be poor scouting, but a lot of transfers don't work.
     
  25. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    With every passing day. Gressel seems to be getting unhappier at Atlanta, and Atlanta seem to be more prepared for life without him. Expensive, but worth it.
     

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