There's no question that the LA clubs, FCD, New York clubs, etc. have an advantage. I just used FCD because they're the club I know. You can do the same analysis for clubs like Seattle. Where does Afonso Ocampo-Chavez come from? Merced, California. Where does Danny Leyva come from? Las Vegas. Yes, there are homegrowns in Seattle's stable that are from Washington. THey've augmented that stable with kids from parts of the country open to everybody. People say that Minnesota needs an open recruiting market to nab talent from. They can do it now for much of the country, and they're NOT DOING IT. Where does Gianluca Busio come from? North Carolina. When Busio was 13, he was identified by SKC's Southeast regional scout at a showcase in Florida. That scout called SKC's academy director Jon Parry and said "you have to get this kid." They started the recruiting process, and nabbed him when he was 15. See, it takes effort. Does Minnesota have regional scouts in areas of the nation that they can recruit from? How hard are they recruiting in Michigan and Wisconsin? Let's be clear about one thing in the longer, longer-term. I'm talking 25 years from now. If they eliminate homegrown territories (which I'm 100% in favor of)......................the biggest WINNERS will be the big market, big money teams. LAG, NYCFC, Seattle, etc. will be the beneficiaries. Not Minnesota or Columbus or Nashville. Not even SKC or RSL. In open youth markets like Spain, do the best youth talents all congregate at Osasuna and Eibar? Of course not. The elite, difference-making youth talents all congregate at a few major clubs. The Spain U19 team for the most recently played U19 Euros had 20 players. 14 of them were from one of 4 clubs (Real Madrid, Atletico Madrid, Barcelona, Valencia). A 15th, Eric Garcia, had moved from Barcelona to Man City. A 16th, Sergio Gomez, had moved from Barcelona to Dortmund. So 16 of 20 players were from one of four clubs. Osasuna, Eibar, etc. do recruit. But they can't get the difference-making stars. Its essentially impossible. The system FAVORS the big clubs. Do people think elite Southern California and DFW kids are going to move to Minnesota to go their academy? Really? You must be joking. The more likely scenario is that an elite Minnesota kid will be recruited away by Seattle or LAG or NYCFC or Miami (I think they're going to be a player).
Minnesota has told their players that they are not allowed to move to other MLS academies in case they start their academy up again. They told their players that they should be looking into high school soccer and local clubs for now. This has been directly told to me by a parent of a Minnesota academy player. There are going to be clubs who aren’t focused on developing youth. Minnesota has the talent in the area. Local products have been Caden Clarke, Patrick Weah, Jackson Yueill, Mukwelle Akale. Minnesota has talented players in their academy like Bajung Darboe, Micah Burton, Sho Haggerty, and more. I thought Minnesota had around 8 kids who could’ve been good enough for HG deals by the time they turn 18. Most clubs are investing more in youth development than even 3 years ago. Most MLS clubs get it now. Even Chicago and Houston are finally changing their ways. Chicago scrapped the u19 team because they saw no real HG candidates in those teams and did not want to waste the money. They were planning on bringing it back once the 03 group was ready for the u19 level. There are three clubs in particular that are stubborn about youth development: Minnesota, Orlando, and Portland. These are the clubs who have either cut the academy or are not making any noticeable changes to improve their youth pipeline. Every other club is making the improvements that are necessary and now most clubs are attempting to establish residencies to be able to recruit more players. Another big piece is the head coaches of clubs. Even though there has been a lot of very productive academy growth, there are still some reluctant coaches. A great example of this is Ben Olsen who has Moses Nyeman and Kevin Paredes in his system but hasn’t played either yet (but has had Paredes on the bench). Another example is Bruce Arena. The Revs are doing a lot with their academy and are looking to produce real talent out of the New England area but at the same time they have a coach who won’t integrate players. This is another road block. But I have talked with a lot of people inside clubs, most clubs are trying to go the opposite way of Minnesota. Don’t let one club make your viewpoint pessimistic. Don’t try to look at historical data for a league that has changed their development model significantly in the last 5 years as well, people who argue that also show a poor viewpoint as they think that clubs can’t change their ways whatsoever. Things don’t immediately get better. But most clubs are trying to make long term focused improvements. Stop being downers who think otherwise One thing that has to come down soon is the homegrown territories. That will be a game changer
Can someone please explain to me (from a legal perspective) how a youth soccer club could possibly “not allow” players to move to other MLS Academies? I’m admittedly not an attorney, but this makes no sense to me.
I assume because of the homegrown territories those players are technically not allowed to go to another mls club? Though we have certainly seen plenty of examples of kids that have done that and I would hope given what MN did that MLS would overlook it. They surely can not expect those kids to stay and play high school soccer in MN as opposed to going to another MLS club. I’m sure Darboe is being recruited by everyone since he lives in open territory. And makes me wonder if a club like Barca Residency ends up as a big winner since the territories don’t apply to them.
So how does it work with the youth and what restrictions are there? I understand you can’t sign a HG deal unless your family has been in that market for 12 months. That said, I am unfamiliar with the specific rule that states a youth player can’t move to another MLS club. Does anyone know what that rule states?
They can technically go to the other clubs, but Minnesota would enforce their territory rule so they can’t sign a HG deal. The loophole around this is if a club sacrifices a draft pick for a player (see Will Vint at Colorado). Players not within Minnesota’s territory won’t have to worry about this luckily. One player for example is Ryland Vue who is actually from California who somehow was at Minnesota.
I also can’t see how Minnesota can hang onto kids they kicked aside. Restraint of trade would seem to apply here (and may anyway if anyone challenged them). If it’s somehow legal MLS needs to send a signal to the clubs by declaring that if for any reason you don’t have a academy club for any age group that the other clubs have kids that would be playing at that age are free agents from then on even if you later add that age group.
Let's hope they bring it back then when the next season starts. Speaking of which, does anyone know if it's going to be in 2021 or in August/September? As long as COVID doesn't get worse (which it could), MLS can't hide behind that as a reason not to start up their new league. Youth sports and high school sports in most states have already been given the go ahead to re-start. As long as things don't get worse (again they could), by the time the season would normally start all restrictions should be lifted. I don't see how it's viable that all these players are waiting a full year to play competitive league matches. That seems like it'll be terrible for development.
I think you're right with how you are approaching this. I don't know what MLS can do to restrict a player from moving to a different academy, if that player wants to. They have those academy player contracts, but I believe those are only year to year. I think what can be done is that MLS and its members have an agreement that they won't sign players from other team's territories, which is what provides the enforcement mechanism. A kid like Darboe can't force his way into the LAFC academy, if he wanted to. They'd have to grant him a place within their academy. (Some) MLS teams also have been known to block the signing of a kid within their territory to a professional contract with another MLS team in a different territory. They are given that right by the MLS rules, and all their clubs follow those rules, so even if one thought they had a right to sign a player from a different territory, they probably aren't going to push it and take the league to CAS.
Everything I’ve heard is that mls clubs expect games to start in September but nobody seems to know more than that (like what the schedules will look like compared to the DA, if there will be travel restrictions etc). They likely don’t know all the answers yet due to covid, but the expectation is that games will start in September.
This is not true. They were not told that. What they were told was that if they went and played for another MLS academy, they would not be able to sign a homegrown contract with that club without MNUFC being part of the conversation. That other parent miss heard what was said. Either way, it was not a good meeting. The club came off as very unsure of their plans forward. They did encourage the kids to get on with other local clubs over the summer while MNUFC figures out their plans for the new MLS league. Lagos’ claim was they need games anyway they can get them in the mean time. This is not sufficient for many of these boys. They belong in a professional and national environment. Some of the top boys have therefore begun conversations with other academies. I have heard discussions have been started with FC Cincinnati, Columbus Crew, and Portland Timbers. There may be other conversations as well that I have not heard of. Just sad.
School districts will not want to get sued for placing students in situations where they can get infected. I wouldn’t be surprised to see online courses at the start of high school in many states.
At least we know that there are plenty of schools and lots of space for kids to distance themselves in the classrooms whenever they return. It’s not like one teacher is teaching 50 kids at a time or anything.
Vis-a-vi our discussion about recruiting players from outside homegrown territories. Next SKC signing out of the academy? From Michigan. Losers whine that the rules hinder them. Winners go out and make it happen. Totally impressed by the work SKC is doing. In recent years, SKC has recruited and eventually signed academy players from the following metros to MLS and/or USL deals:GreensboroDurhamCharlotteNashvilleJohnson CityCarbondaleBakersfieldLos AngelesLouisvilleand now Detroit https://t.co/flZuCAKy0S— Jamie Hill (@_jameshill) June 30, 2020 The talent keeps flowing out of the @SKCAcademy system.Congratulations on making the next step, @jdavis_3211! 💪— SKCII (@SportingKCII) June 30, 2020
Article with a lot of quotes from parents. It seems like they aren't happy (not surprising). Fees doubled. Scholarships decreased.Families found out from the media. Manny Lagos wouldn’t give answers.Information’s changing. Families don’t know where to go.Reporting from @byEliHoff takes you inside the decline of the #MNUFC academy: https://t.co/AhCkJPbMCJ— Northland Soccer Journal (@NorthlandSoccer) July 3, 2020
Nothing that surprising with this announcement. They added a few players. All their main players seem to be back for the upcoming season. The main thing that you can take out of this is that they are not listing any player at the club beyond the '04 age group. They've cut their U-19 team. I've heard some teams will keep their U-19 team and others won't. There might be another solution coming, so I did expect some sort of announcement of players older than '04 being part of their academy for this season, but there's also a chance they announce that at a later date. 📰 | “Our players showed teams around the country the level of talent that exists in South Florida and that is a testament to the work local youth teams have done." said COO & Sporting Director Paul McDonough. Preseason is expected to start in August.https://t.co/KsMMQ6Mtld— Inter Miami CF Academy (@InterMiamiAcad) July 3, 2020
So after Minnesota, now #IMFC making big cuts in its academy structure.According to @Olivier_Brett of @919sports, Montreal Impact Academy Director Phillippe Eullafroy and other staff let go by the Montreal Impact.— Kevin Laramee ⚽📺 (@KevLaramee) July 3, 2020
Miami is going to have a USL1 team (or equivalent, if they separate from USL), right? I can understand killing the U19 team at that point. I think by the time a player is 18, if they aren't good enough to play at a USL1 team, they probably should head to college anyway. There might be a player or two left out then anyway -- it'd be nice for the player to stay in the academy through high school, to be honest, but I can see why there's not as much need to for a spot for 19 year old who's not good enough for USL2.
1. I think thats all up in the air. I think they will likely have some older players on their books, but I don't know if they are going to be part of a USL team or an older affiliate team. I thought they might announce some older kids as academy players, but I'll get to that issue after addressing the one about cutting the U-19 team. 2. I think the big issue with the idea of cutting the U-19 team is that you are still potentially talking about a full birth year that is without a place to play for a season. It's true that most of the best of those players are already playing in a professional environment, and likely won't be impacted much. However, I don't think it's a good solution to be limiting the pool so much. I've made this point so many times. For me, it's the biggest key at about a five year age window (18-23). We need numbers. Yes, we can all spot who the best U-15, U-16, U-17, U-18 players are with a high degree of certainty, but what no one can do with any high degree of certainty is predict who will be the best professional players 5-10 years from now. That involves so many variables. Thats why you need numbers. It's not any individual names being what will lead to an improvement in our player pool, it's the numbers. It's having more and more quality players. It's having players emerge from nothing. None of us know who these players will be or should care which ones will emerge. Some will emerge, and the countries with the most players with a requisite amount of talent to emerge and in an environment they can emerge from will be the countries that produce the best players. We still need to improve in this regard, although improvements have been made in the last 5 years. What cutting out an MLS U-19 team could potentially do is limit the exposure, limit the level of competition, and limit the development of players that were bound to emerge. The age group that would be effected by this the most the upcoming season is the 03's. I can guarantee you that some 03's would've emerged from their U-19 season, and elevated their careers. Why? Because all you have to do is look back at each previous age group, and see that players made substantial jumps in elevating their careers (getting a lot better, getting a lot more YNT exposure, signing in Europe or MLS) based on what they did in their U-19 season. 3. I think there's going to be a solution here for these players. The rumored idea seems to be some sort of older age group that I believe will encompass all the older academy kids, and probably a place for the young professionals at the club to play. In asking around, I've heard U-20, U-21, U-22, U-23 all mentioned as the age category, so I think there's a lot of uncertainty, probably even within the league for what the plan is going to look like. I think they are behind in setting up the youth side of things, considering they've been putting a lot of their time into their professional league. I think it's going to look similar to what the Premier League U-23 league looks like. I think thats the sort of aim that MLS is going for here. I don't know the timetable of when it will start, how its going to co-exist (or not co-exist) with a USL-affiliate/U-19 team, but I was a little surprised that Miami didn't announce any older academy kids on their books. Maybe Miami won't take part in that initially, they didn't see reason to announce them with the academy teams, the plan within the league has been entirely scrapped or won't be beginning anytime soon. I don't have full information about this. 4. This is purely my own speculation, but how could it not start somewhere around when the normal academy season would start? Are these kids going to go nearly a full calendar year without playing competitive games? Thats what it'd be if they make this league part of the normal MLS calendar. I also don't know how it would function with the college calendar. I suspect some of these players will eventually head to college. Are they going to leave mid-season?
Interesting story with info on Bundesliga clubs looking for Canadian youngsters... We need to build a statue to Alphonso Davies in this country. Phonzie and Jonathan Davis are the faces, but there’s a groundswell of interest in Canadian players. There is no other market *in the world* like it. A 1st world, relatively untapped source of top-tier talents.https://t.co/y24y7K6Esr— J.J. Adams (@TheRealJJAdams) July 5, 2020
No disrespect intended, but I strongly disagree with your last point. Boys continue growing until 18-19 years old. Cutting out 04s that are not ready yet to play with men puts your line at 16. You are missing many boys that add inches and more importantly muscle from 16-18. conversely, it overvalues those that are fully grown at 16. For the boys, it may be a benefit, since most are not going pro anyways, and this puts their focus squarely on college in time for 11th grade. But as a rule to follow for the future good of US soccer, I can't say I agree with this move.
I don't disagree entirely in the broader context, but I also understand why MLS is doing it. The MLS Academy has a U17 team, which really means 17 and under, not 16 and under. Most MLS teams interested in development (all?) will have either their own USL team or an affiliate. If you are an MLS team interested in development, then you've got up to 30 or so slots with the USL team to put top players under 18, but also your 18 -23 year olds. Let's say 18-22 gets most of those slots -- probably 15 or so guys that really play. The very best 18-22 year olds are on the MLS roster, of course, even as backups, but it also means that an interested club could have 10-20 other 18-23 year old stashed in USL. And given the dynamics of MLS -- still a lot of foreign talent, the college option for players, the European option for players, etc., that's not an insufficient number to use as a pipeline. Of course, from the player perspective or the USMNT perspective, yep, it doesn't necessarily have a home for every kid that *might* make it as a later bloomer. MLS still has successful college talent and late bloomers like Aaron Long, the USMNT has guys who clearly weren't stars at 17, like Dempsey, really break out. So on one hand, I can see why MLS is basically trying to force the move to professional earlier. This makes it so the best 18 and 19 year olds have to be playing in USL at minimum. That could have developmental benefits. It also squarely places the choice of signing with MLS or going to college or going to Europe on a timeline that makes sense for MLS. And if you're in a pandemic and have to cut somewhere, cutting the support for the 11th best 18 and 19 year olds -- or ones uninterested in staying at your club -- make some level of sense. I agree it isn't great for overall USMNT development versus having more players playing. That's simple math. Will other routes step up? Will USL grab the players that MLS doesn't sign for their academy league / USL? Will more players head to college a semester earlier? I dunno. I just get why you'd cut that age group if you had to cut something. You want more players ready earlier, and you do have a reserve team equivalent that is presumably mostly young players.
2 Points: The 14 of 20 players aren't necessarily just from those cities but rather all over Spain a much smaller country than the US. Families are closer to the younger players. And they have more money to pay more and better facilities be cause there is no salary cap in Spain. With that said the US is larger and parents won't ship their younger kids all over the country. There is no US based transfer fees. So called MLS big clubs don't always have better facilities than smaller teams. Atlanta, Philly, KC have better facilities. More of a egalitarian system in US not in Spain. And MLS teams don't like to play homegrowns. Bottom line. Different countries, different economics, different developmental systems will look differently.