I was looking for the attendance thread for this season, but I couldn't find it: I assumed it didn't exist yet. Should this one be a replicate, feel free to eliminate it. I guess it could still be a subject worth discussing, couldn't it? Actually I was looking for the attendance thread only because I wanted to compare Seattle's 2018 opener with the same match from 2017. If I got what's written on the 2017 thread right, Seattle should have increased their opener's attendance by a whopping... 40 people! 3561 yesterday for the match vs Washington, according to their Twitter, while last year there had been 3521 to watch Reign take on Sky Blue. I can't help thinking that probably most people on the standings were... exactly the same people as last year! A constant fan-base of loyal followers, nothing less, nothing more (or better: just a few dozens more). I looked for this kind of info on our BigSoccer thread from last season because I frankly don't know ho to locate the same kind of info on the NWSL website. Does anyone know how to find all of the content from previous seasons? Don't tell me that it simply... goes away from the net: it would fill me with yet more fright with the new wave of disposable media (compared to good old archives, like the one we have here on BS). Anyway, sorry if my post is only talking about Seattle: I didn't mean to be comprehensive at all. It's only that, while I was looking for Reign-related info, I thought it could have been worth creating this thread, for anyone who would like to discuss this season's attendances. If you want to do that, now the thread is here for you; if nobody cares, the thread will die down and be rapidly forgotten!
According to the NWSL website's game recaps: NC: 4,210 - well below last year's 6,298 opener, but since that was the inaugural home match for the franchise, it's understandable that last year's home opener was inflated for that reason. It's not too far under last year's average of 4,389, but if you assume the home opener is always gonna be one of the better-attended games of the season, starting below last year's average is not a good sign. ORL: 9,017 - well below last year's 14,452 home opener, but at least comfortably above last year's 6,186 average
Game recaps from 2016 and 2017 are available on the NWSL site if you go to the Schedule tab and pick the season you want. Unfortunately they don't have 2013-2015.
Oh, ok, I hadn't located that. Quite counterintuitive to me: no scroll-down menu in the main-page from the "Schedule" tab, so you're under the impression that it's regarding current season only. Anyway, I am happy that at least info about 2016 and 2017 is still available. I have to assume that the rest (2013 to 2015) ended in the bin?
You will be able to get the 2013 to 2015 attendance numbers at at least one the team websites, although I don't know about the others. The one I know of is the Thorns: Go to the Thorns website. On the red Thorns banner across the top, click on Schedule. Scroll down to the bottom of the page for links to the 2013 through 2017 schedules. Click on the link for the year you want. On that year's schedule, for any game click on Recap. Scroll down to the bottom of the Recap page and you'll find game stats. At the bottom of the game stats, you'll find Attendance. I checked this for 2013 for a home and for an away game, and both showed the attendance. It's possible that some away games won't show attendance (if the opponent didn't report its attendance).
By the way, now that I've checked Seattle's average attendance from last year, I notice that this year opener (3561) is well below that average (4037). On the other hand, last year's opener (3521) was even more below average, so probably there's not much to worry about and Seattle has to have a tradition of below-average openers. I could suppose that the importance of a game and the name of the opponent count more to Seattle supporters than celebrating the opening of the season. Of course, one could have thought that watching a so "new" team (with new coach and about a dozen new players) could have raised some curiosity and could have buffed up the stats. In fact, 40 more people were motivated enough to join! Not sure about the rest: maybe Harvey was so beloved that some people wanted to give a look to Vlatko's particular brand of football from home, before being persuaded to come to the stadium? Anyway, the general impression is that, after the first years of growth, NWSL attendances are kind of dropping down a little. What to you expect guys? A rebound from last season or a further decrease?
Check out previous seaons threads for NWSL attendence and look for posts by Kenntomasch. I think he has an online attendance database that he shares links to.
I think it is going to take a few more games to determine how each team is affected. I do think that the overall league average could actually have a healthy increase from last season. With Boston(8th) and KCFC(10th) in attendance, no longer in the league, it should only improve with Utah. In attendance alone, there is a chance their opener will be a sell-out, but if it doesn't, it will be somewhere between 15,000 and 20,000. Boston and KCFC both combined for only 5579. I think an important indication as to how well Utah will do, will come in their 2nd and 3rd game attendance figures.
Really? Sorry, I didn't know there were so high attendance-expectations for Utah. Living outside USA I don't have a clear view of things, but I was under the impression that Portland only could reach such figures!
Last I heard of Utah's season ticket numbers, they had passed 3k and were hoping for 5k. Also hoping for a 10k average over the season, so getting their inaugural game 15k+ or even 20k+ would be a reasonable outlier. Taking HOU and ORL (the other MLS expansion teams) as examples: HOU '14: home opener 8097, average 4650 ORL '16: home opener 23403, average 8785 ORL '17: home opener 14452, average 6186 Another thing to consider is that POR and UTH are often cited as being similar markets... medium-sized cities where soccer is the #1 draw, largely due to lack of an NFL or MLB team in the same market. I don't think UTH will draw as much as POR, but I would honestly expect them to draw as good or better than ORL, assuming the patterns hold.
I think when the season ends you will find Utah in that 2nd spot in overall attendance behind Portland. It will be interesting to see just how far behind they are, but more important how will their first season compare with that of Portland's first season. Portland's season ticket sales were somewhere between 6000 to 7000 in their first season. How close to that is Utah right now? I think we will get a much better picture of that in the next couple of home games for them.
I expect Utah to do well, but in my mind the real question is how do the other teams do? Washington, Chicago, Seattle, New Jersey, and even Houston. I think it's important for all of them to at least hold steady compared to last year.
I'm mostly expecting the existing teams to hold steady or slightly increase... There are 35 year-to-year-by-team attendance changes you can look at - 19 were increases and 16 were decreases, but 6 of those 16 decreases were from '16 to '17, a tournament year to a non-tournament year, so those might be "expected". That said, both HOU and WAS had gone downward two years in a row, so maybe there's reason to worry about them. CHI and NJ actually increased over the '16/'17 gap, so I wouldn't be worried about those two at all.
Chicago and NJ look more optimistic to increase, but with more risk if they do fall. Washington could probably survive even if they fell a little, but wouldn't be good for 3 years in a row. Normally I'd say Houston would be similar to Washington, but with everything else, makes one concerned.
RSL's owner has big aspirations for the Royals. He was stated as wanting to sell as many Royals tickets as RSL tickets. It might be a bit ambitious, but he is pushing it pretty hard. There are season ticket ads popping up places, and I know they have their own team of ticket agents. He wanted to push for $2 million in sponsorship money per year, and with the jersey sponsorship alone is nearly half way there. It will be really hard to top the Thorns, and until proven otherwise, I don't expect it at all. But I wouldn't be shocked to see the Royals top the 10,000 mark this season in ticket sales. I hope they do well. As for the first game. They are really pushing for a sell out. They team was selling 1st game packs that included RSL, Royals and Monarchs opening games for a pretty nice $35 per seat cost. They have a Rachel Platton Concert after the game (She is also singing the national anthem I believe.) They are flying in players families, etc. I am sure there is a lot more going on that I am not aware of. But I expect it to be a pretty fun night. (Ok game is at 1:30, so a pretty fun day...)
I which I shared your confidence that all is well with Chicago and Sky Blue, but I just don't see them making a significant enough improvement in attendance that will do them that much good. I am concerned for all the independent owners at this point, more so, then I am with Houston's self inflicted situation. There is still potential with the Dash if they can get their act together, but with the remaining independents, unless there is some kind of merger with a MLS team or even an USL team, it is going to be hard to stay up especially with the addition of even more MLS clubs and what they can bring to the table. The balance of power is securely in the hands of the MLS clubs, who at this point have A+E and NCC in their corner. Inspite of their determination, the independents are having a hard time keeping up. My concern is what happens when they are asked to find and pay rent on bigger and better facilities, or what happens if there is a big boost in the salary cap, and/or an increase in the roster size, etc. Will they have the kind of increased attendance numbers to handle it all, or will they have to keep digging deeper into their pockets to keep things going.
I worry too, especially for the teams whose owners have made a big long-time commitment to pro women's soccer and love the sport. I'm wondering about a middle ground, where the owners contract with their local MLS club for administrative help on an incremental cost basis (possibly with some profit-sharing arrangement if and when the women's club becomes profitable). I think the owner personally having a big commitment to women's soccer is of major importance, so where an MLS owner doesn't have that commitment but a NWSL team's owner does, in the same market, a cooperative venture (rather than a merger) might be the best arrangement.
I hear you on the co-operative venture, but will that get you access to the MLS club's season ticket list. Besides having the stadium and infrastructure, that season ticket list is a big advantage the current clubs to have at their disposal. Portland has taken full of advantage of theirs. I read somewhere that 1/3rd of the Thorn's season ticket sales are from Timber season ticket holders. Utah when they reported they had reached 3,000 in season ticket sales, one thousand of those came from the men's season ticket side. I am sure Orlando probably has something similar, too. Was Seattle able to get the Sounder's to provide them with their season ticket list? Bye the way, I will be curious as to how well the Courage will do in this their 2nd season in North Carolina. While it gives them a step up, since the owner now has a USL team, they still have their limitations as well. The Courage don't have the luxury of a big season ticket list to work off of, so we will have to see how this season works out for them. I was surprised by their opening day attendance only being around 4,200. The sad thing is that in spite of all the hard work the independent owners have done to put a good product on the field for their fans, the Dash probably will still manage to finish 4th in attendance, behind Portland, Utah, and Orlando.
The Reign and the Sounders have no working relationship at all, I'm fairly sure. Reign were a 100% independent start-up when NWSL began. Considering that the Sounders blow almost all other MLS clubs out of the water when it comes to attendance, I would think that the Reign would have much higher attendance than they currently do if they reached even a tiny fraction of the Sounders' STH list.
I am sure this is true, but I anyway seem to remember that Sounders' fan-website "Sounder at heart" has quite often Seattle Reign-related articles and info. This should mean that at least a part of Sounders' fan-base should be somehow aware of Reign's existence and of news about it... Edit: an example at what I am talking about: https://www.sounderatheart.com/seat...6/seattle-reign-2-1-victory-washington-spirit
We weren't talking about whether Sounders fans knew the Reign existed - we were talking about if the Reign organization had access to Sounder fan information, or if the Sounders fans were responding to ads/news. And they don't have that reach. Remember too that Sounder at Heart is a member of SB Nation, which is itself supported by Vox Media. Many (if not most/all) of their blogs, while officially being "fan-based", all have regular contributors and beat reporters with media credentials and everything else that goes with the profession. Reporting on the nearby women's teams (and college teams, and any NT games that happen nearby) comes with the territory. Like with the situation in Seattle, Black and Red United often reports on the Spirit, RSL Soapbox includes the WPSL/UWS Real Salt Lake Women, and The Bent Musket did the same for the Breakers. That doesn't translate into many extra ticket sales at all for those women's teams. The internet is a big place, and any given blog won't have nearly the impact actual organizational support would.
I believe that the Thorns also had access to the U of Portland season ticket list, in the days when their attendance was over 3,000 per game. I wouldn't be surprised if the Royals have access to the BYU, Utah, and Utah State season ticket lists. Women's college soccer attendance in Utah is really good. That's one of the reasons I've wanted to see a team in the Salt Lake City area and why I expect their attendance will be really good. Most recent info is more than 7,000 in season ticket sales.
If it is true the Royals are up to 7000, that is huge. I was expecting around 4500 to 5000. That should really help to get things moving faster on expansion for 2019.