2016 MLS Week 5 Referee Discussion

Discussion in 'MLS Referee Forum' started by ptref, Mar 29, 2016.

  1. ptref

    ptref Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Aug 5, 2015
    Bowling Green, KY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The PRO assignments for MLS games in week 5 of the 2016 season:

    04/01/2016

    New England Revolution v New York Red Bulls
    Gillette Stadium (7:00pm ET)
    REF: MARK GEIGER
    AR1: Brian Dunn
    AR2: Logan Brown
    4TH: Marcos DeOliveira

    04/02/2016

    Chicago Fire v Philadelphia Union
    Toyota Park (5:00pm ET)
    REF: SILVIU PETRESCU
    AR1: Phil Briere
    AR2: Gianni Facchini
    4TH: Kevin Terry Jr

    Colorado Rapids v Toronto FC
    Dick's Sporting Goods Park (8:00pm ET)
    REF: ISMAIL ELFATH
    AR1: Kermit Quisenberry
    AR2: Kevin Klinger
    4TH: Younes Marrakchi

    Sporting Kansas City v Real Salt Lake
    Children's Mercy Park (8:30pm ET)
    REF: TED UNKEL
    AR1: Claudiu Badea
    AR2: Anthony Vasoli
    4TH: Armando Villarreal

    FC Dallas v Columbus Crew
    Toyota Stadium (9:00pm ET)
    REF: EDVIN JURISEVIC
    AR1: Frank Anderson
    AR2: Jeffrey Greeson
    4TH: Juan Guzman

    Vancouver Whitecaps v LA Galaxy
    BC Place (10:00pm ET)
    REF: JAIR MARRUFO
    AR1: Eric Boria
    AR2: Apolinar Mariscal
    4TH: Alex Chilowicz

    Seattle Sounders v Montreal Impact
    CenturyLink Field (10:00pm ET)
    REF: BALDOMERO TOLEDO
    AR1: Jeff Hosking
    AR2: James Conlee
    4TH: Baboucarr Jallow

    San Jose Earthquakes v D.C. United
    Avaya Stadium (10:30pm ET)
    REF: FOTIS BAZAKOS
    AR1: Adam Wienckowski
    AR2: Cameron Blanchard
    4TH: Ricardo Salazar

    04/03/2016

    Orlando City v Portland Timbers
    Citrus Bowl (8:00pm ET)
    REF: ALAN KELLY
    AR1: Eric Weisbrod
    AR2: Kyle Longville
    4TH: Caleb Mendez
     
  2. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Mark Geiger has lost his mind. Red card to Felipe? WTF?
     
  3. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    Sweet windbreaker DeOliveira is wearing as the 4th
     
  4. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Cleats right into Rowe's ankle. Works for me. [But I will admit that I think he's a thug who deserves a red card much more frequently than he gets them]
     
  5. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's an easy call. Over the ball, studs straight into the ankle. Serious foul play.
     
    That Cherokee and Raider025 repped this.
  6. Raider025

    Raider025 Member

    May 13, 2015
    I'm in the "straight red" camp. That can seriously injure someone. No reason to attempt that tackle. Geiger got it right to me. What I will concern myself with, is the injury leading to the only goal. I see alot of controversy over whether it should've been stopped for the injury or not. There was actually an article about this where one persons opinion was to rest the decision to stop it on the referee.
    Link: http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2016/...ive-should-you-play-ball-out-injured-opponent

    Edit: I realize that the timing was absolutely impeccable that the same day this article was released, the situation happens...
     
    GlennAA11 repped this.
  7. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    It wasn't over the ball, Felipe played the ball, deflecting the Revs players play on the ball. His foot was in the air to make the block and comes down where the Revs player making the intial touch steps into the path in a bang bang manner.
     
  8. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    And.....
     
  9. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    while I also lean towards orange as well...Mark didn't exactly have a great match...and yeah I also feel that the match should have been stopped prior to the goal.
     
  10. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    Why?
     
  11. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the injury was serious besides putting one team at a competitive disadvantage...
     
  12. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    South Jersey
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Had the referee been aware of the seriousness of the injury, play should have and would have been stopped. His opinion based on the evidence he could quickly collect was that the injury was slight, thus the Laws say to continue play. His opinion turned out to be wrong, and that sucks, but everyone on that pitch knows you play on until told otherwise.

    While one team had a competitive disadvantage, that's true for slight injuries, as well, and we specifically do not stop play for slight injuries so we can't use that as a criterion.

    The other possible reason to stop play would be if the player was injured in a location where it would be unsafe to play on. I don't think that was the case here, but there's an argument for it. Again, it comes down to the opinion of the referee.

    So the question at hand is how do we improve referee assessment of the degree of injury (slight vs serious vs severe) and get some consistency amongst the crews?
     
    GlennAA11 repped this.
  13. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    I agree with that. The problem of course is that if you stop the game for every injury you end up with players gaming the system.

    There was a case in the first or maybe second week of the season where a player was down in the middle of the penalty area with play continuing all around him where I felt like it was dangerous to everyone and Villareal didn't stop play. In that case the player was down for a long time.

    I think it will always be a grey area.
     
  14. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    somebody really needs to take Balboa aside and teach him the laws of the game
     
  15. MrPerfectNot

    MrPerfectNot Member+

    Jul 9, 2011
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Everton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Having reffed him in local MBB matches, he frequently displays the same ignorance of how the Laws are actually applied.
     
    GreatGonzo, JasonMa and cleansheetbsc repped this.
  16. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Honest question--what about an injured player who is a defender, and is maybe even further back than where this injury was today. By virtue of being down, he is obviously affecting the offside line. But everyone else pulls up and play continues w/o regard to him. The AR stays with the injured defender I assume, but I wonder if at some point the competitive disadvantage b/c of the offside line becomes so great that the ref should stop the game. Does anyone think that should be a factor?
     
  17. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004

    I think the Revs should have played the ball out.
     
  18. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    We are now at 16.....sixteen...1-6 red cards this season already!
     
  19. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Love to get a neutral's take on Elfath tonight. As a Rapids fan I felt like the game was all over the map. Toronto fans are up in arms over the 3 major decisions in the match.

    http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...rado-rapids-vs-toronto-fc/details/video/60986
    Card 1 to Cheyrou - No brainer to me and lucky not to be red

    http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...rado-rapids-vs-toronto-fc/details/video/60987
    Card 2 to Cheyrou - Hint of a thrown elbow, if so then the card is warranted. Especially after Elfath gave him a pretty clear "calm down and don't do it again" talk when he got his first card 2 minutes earlier. If no elbow is actually there though then I'm not sure this is yellow.

    http://matchcenter.mlssoccer.com/ma...rado-rapids-vs-toronto-fc/details/video/60989
    Goal - Concerns about offside. It is really, really close. Can't tell accurately with the angle of the replay IMO.
     
  20. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but I think the teams have been instructed to not do that, and let the referee stop play. Not that teams ever listen to things the league tells them.

    My question isn't about this exact play, but more along the lines of "in thinking about when the referee should stop play, should the ref factor in something like a serious competitive disadvantage caused by the offside line being frozen"? Not sure if that makes sense what I'm asking.
     
  21. Raider025

    Raider025 Member

    May 13, 2015
    Re: the second card, it does seem there was a bit of an elbow. Even if, it does seem like something you should avoid after Elfath gave him the talk.
     
    JasonMa repped this.
  22. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Somebody else's screen capture of the possible offsides on the Rapids goal:
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    No. Why should Geiger blow the whistle? It's not a compound fracture or a head injury. Let the team's decide.
     
  24. GrooveDog

    GrooveDog Member

    Apr 25, 2013
    Canada
    Not worth worrying about the offside; looks on to me, but that is too close to decide from the camera angle.

    Card 1: Very, very orange. If he's a few centimetres higher he's off for it.

    Card 2: The elbow is the issue, and the second replay shows him using the elbow. Whether or not it is "thrown" really only shifts this from being a second yellow to being red; even though the player is using it at this point to balance himself (the commentators are right, he is looking at the ball), he puts others at risk when he jumps "into" the path of the ball like that instead of "up" to the path of the ball. Both decisions correct IMO.
     
    JasonMa repped this.

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