2016 MLS Week 15 Referee Discussion

Putting this here for lack of a better spot. I'm at DSG Park for the Rapids USOC game sitting near the top of the stands. Shortly after the game started a couple guys wearing US Soccer Referee Program polos sat down in the row in front of me and started taking notes on the game. I could see what one of them was writing, it was a count of fouls, shots, corners, offsides, etc. Now here at half they left.

Just wondering, were these likely assessors or something else?

 

Probably just regular referees. I have never met an assessor who would care about those stats, it's much more about game management and what ways the crew can improve themselves.

 

Some of their comments I could overhear were talking about "being 25 yards behind the play" and "I told Eric to nod his head when something like that happens". I don't know who the refs were on the game and if there was an Eric.

 

I mean, if the referee never explicitly said that the kick would be ceremonial, I guess it's technically legit. But holy crap, there's no way I'd award it even if I hadn't explicitly held up play. The referee looks like he's overseeing the injured player and has his back to the FK spot; that's extremely misleading if his intent was not to stop play.

 

That's a pretty crappy goal if you ask me. Ref should have stopped play to check on the player down on the ground. I completely understand why the defending team is upset. Poor management on that play.

 

https://streamable.com/sw9j

 

Looks like the ref screwed the pooch on that one. And what was that signal, with both arms extended out to the side? What does that mean?

 

Oh yeah this was covered in the half-vast rewrite of 2016. This signal means:

"Look, guys, there go my chances of getting another gig like this any time soon"

 

Couple of things here. First, with a player down and feigning some sort of injury, I think I would have to go ceremonial. That seems to me to be a deception that is not within the bounds of fair play. Yes, the Galaxy are entitled to go when they want, but when a player is down injured with a dead ball I think the defenders assume you are going to check. But, then again, maybe not.

 

Sure, with a man injured you'd expect the ref to hold up the kick, but other than that, was there anything technically wrong with what the ref did? Any reason why LA couldn't take a quick kick there?

You couldn't hear sound, but I could certainly imagine him saying something like "that's a fair kick" while holding out his hands like that.

 

If it was a defender writhing on the ground it would be different, but with the attacking player "injured" I would have to stop. Also could state that the ball was still moving when kicked if you want to go the "technical" route. Bad form all around, also what is with the celebration by galaxy? Really? that was so amazing??? Bad form mates.

 

And this is what drives people crazy about soccer refereeing.
You are 100% correct in everything you're saying, but at the same time, as far as I can tell, the referee did nothing technically wrong.
Yes, as you say, referees are taught a certain way to do things...but is it written down anywhere that non-refs can see it?
Can the opposing coach point to anything official and say, this was wrong?
I'm honestly curious here.

 

The referee is between the restart and the defenders, talking to the defenders. If nothing else, he might be guilty of impeding.

 

The Region 4 President's Cup youth tournament is in Denver right now. Often times, administrators or assessors will double up and assess someone new in an area they aren't from. So, while it may have been someone local, the fact that there were 2 of them makes me think it was some of the tournament staff that were also assigned to assess the USOC game in the area. At halftime, they likely moved to a different area to observe decisions by the other AR easier.

This is just not accurate. Do regular referees often show up to games and take notes like that? An Assessor would take those notes because it's critical to the game. How often can you find an accurate statistician at a USOC game? How would the Assessor be able to point out items like PI without proper notes? Most assessors at that level take notes in some sort of a timeline format. You need the exact times of things. Games are on video.

I have no idea what the "nod his head" comment could be in context, but if there were two people, they might have just been chit-chatting about another game during this game. Soccer guys talk soccer. To your question, there was no "Eric", but an AR was named Jacob Herold. Not sure how close you were sitting, but "Herold" might be mis-heard as "Eric". The center was Baboucarr Jallow, who is a 4th in MLS (and a former AR before that).

All in all, good observations by @JasonMa.

 

Why on Earth is Hernandez even on this game? I'm all for refereeing as long as you want, but there comes a time when you need to move on. He is taking a game from someone that could use it. He reached MLS and had a solid career. No need to take away a game from someone that has MLS ambitions and goals.

Granted, he got assigned the game so it's not like it is his fault. Whoever assigned him the game, whether it be the LAC or US Soccer needs to reevaluate things. He has had his time and it's someone else's turn.

 

As long as he can still pass the fitness requirements, why would/should he move on?
I imagine he keeps reffing at the highest level he can because he enjoys it.
He doesn't owe anyone anything.

 

I don't know that we can tell from the video whether there was anything that technically violated the LOTG.

I can't tell from where the video starts how, when, or why the R got to where he was. Nor can I tell what, if anything, he was saying to the players. And from where the video starts, I can't tell how quickly after the whistle the FK is taken. The fundamental obligation the R has to the defense in a FK situation is to not misdlead them.

If he said anything to lead anyone to blieve it was ceremonial, than I would say yes it was technically wrong -- regardless of whether he blew or pointed at the whistle. If he didn't, I don't see any evidence that he did anything that actually violated the LOTG.

If, as others implied, there was a delay and the R was walking to the injured player to check on him (which seems consistent with how the majority of players are acting), then it seems that the R did mislead the defense, which is a problem -- and if the PRO refs are instructed to make ceremonial in this situation, it ceratinly makes it more likely that the failure to do so was misleading.

(I do think there is a stark difference between the R misleading and the defense assuming -- quick kicks in the attacking third often catch the defense assuming the kick will be ceremonial.)

 

Read the part about Law 13 in this, especially the bolded part at the end that says "Although it is often said that defenders have no rights in a free kick situation, they do have a right not to be confused by the referee giving misleading signals about whether the kick is quick or ceremonial. If the referee decides that the kick cannot be taken right away, you must make the players aware of this decision as soon as possible."

Keywords?: "misleading signals" & "right away". This FK wasn't taken "right away". It's Ceremonial. Period.
http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/03/17/14/03/2009-referee-week-in-review-week-22

The Referee points to the spot that he wants the free kick at, lets a player dribble up to that spot and pass the ball to a teammate - who is only halfway interested in actually scoring because he doesn't think the ball is in play - on a free kick that is 18 yards out with a man on the ground injured.........and you say he did nothing technically wrong?

He did everything technically wrong. He did everything functionally wrong. There is nothing about this FK that should be praised. It should be put in every soccer clinic ever and used as an example of "don't do this, ever."

When was the last time we saw a FK managed like this? A simple "tweet-tweet" on the whistle solves this entire problem. If he blows the whistle, do you think LAG are going to be up in arms about it? Do you think that anyone even sees the highlight if he does that? There are probably 5-6 other FKs like this in the games last night where Refs gave a "tweet-tweet" and it's a non-issue.

@MassachusettsRef is totally right. If this were LAG that were aggrieved, the internet would be broken. As-is, people are somehow assuming this is a good goal. An amateur team without a website got the raw end of this deal, and while all they probably want is some sympathy, they instead get people trying to argue that this is the proper way to play soccer. ****.

 

Thanks @Lucky Wilbury and @socal lurker...good stuff.
It's one thing to say that he screwed up...all logic and common sense point to that...it's another to say, "hey ref, here are the codified reasons showing that you're wrong."
Assuming that the US Soccer papers have the weight I assume they do.