Washington lined him up as their #10 because he was by far their best ballhandler, but that's not his natural position.
I think Roldan can develop into an Arturo Vidal type of player he's got some bite on him, great touch, vision, keep POSSESSION (looking at u Gall) but he was an ncaa player if he would have accepted a GA contract last year he probably would have made this team. Oh well.
Plus, due to MLS, your players are both difficult to transfer and expensive, while Japanese players are not. Which is the right of MLS, don't get me wrong.
Japanese players are more technical and tactically sound on average. Partly because that is what their culture encourages (outside of sports) and partly due to the fact that soccer is more mainstream there. There is baseball and then soccer. The reason they don't produce Mcbride types is because the few tallish, sturdy, athletic Japanese are probably playing other sports. We have also have only produced one Mcbride in our history despite having a plethora of this type of athlete around . It's also easier to go pro in Japan.
We have tons of players that could be playing in top European leagues that aren't. Some have come back to MLS when they could have stayed in Europe and others decided to stay in North America. Whether Japan has more players playing in top European leagues really isn't important. What's more important is whether they are better than us. The results in youth and senior level tournaments would seem to indicate that we are likely better at all levels.
I think the difference with Liga MX and MLS is that the former is an excellent league. Mexicans don't need to go abroad to Europe where they might not get much game time; they have what they need in Mexico. For USA it's not like that, because Europe is a LOT better than USA; Mexico is already a good league. There will be a time where MLS is an elite league and Americans won't have to go abroad, but that time is not now.
By the way, do you know who qualified for the 2015 FIFA U-20 World Cup from Asia? No Japan, no Korea, no Australia, no Iran, but Qatar, North Korea, Myanmar and Uzbekistan. And recently, Japan missed a few Youth World Cup. In the end, the result is not that important on youth stage. We should concern more about whether we choose the right players, play the right ways, and help talent to develop on the right direction.
MLS is willing to splash the cash, but even so, there are really only three players in MLS who'll make the kind of money you'd expect for regular first division starters in big leagues. One of them (Dempsey) is too old to be relevant, and another (Altidore) was an unmitigated disaster in the PL. That leaves only Michael Bradley. That's very debatable, but in any case, he was born and raised abroad. What Japan has accomplished is pretty incredible, but at least El Tri can claim to have some real quality on European squads. It even has guys who get minutes for two of the best teams in the world: Javier Hernandez at Real Madrid and Raul Jimenez at Atletico Madrid. There are several other Mexicans in La Liga in their mid-20s or younger, most notably Vela, who has become a consistent presence on its goalscoring leaderboard.
If we are indeed that much better, than why isn't our players in higher demand for european teams in top 4 leagues outside looking to bolster their lineups?
It's a fair question, but I think we greatly overestimate the desire of our players to live and play (or at least start their careers) overseas. It's easy to assume that everyone wants to play in Europe, and I'm sure most of us fans/failed players would always say we would if given the chance, but if you can make a living wage here, in an English speaking country with a high standard of living, relatively near family, then, well... There are already almost 20 guys who signed with MLS out of college this season without testing the waters elsewhere or knowing where they will play the season. That's telling. Of course I imagine a lot of Japanese players might feel the same way -- but perhaps not.
I'm tired of the whole Japan debate, so I'm going to leave it after this post. We've been clogging this thread up with this for no reason. My whole point was I don't understand why Japan is the nation people are always comparing us to. How about much smaller nations than Japan that have national teams significantly better than Japan. Say................Belgium and Uruguay? Can we talk about their development programs instead please? How about talking about Colombia? This is why I talk about how the person in charge of publicity for Japan's development programs deserves some sort of massive pay raise. You would think based on the conversations we're having on these boards that Japan's national team would actually be ranked in the top 50. They're not. Their average position since the J-league started in 1993 is 32. The USMNT's average position since the J-league started is 19. There's no evidence that as a program they've caught us or are catching us. As a program. You can argue that there are individual players in 2015 that have been developed in Japan that are better than their American-developed counterparts. I wouldn't disagree with you. But so what? I'm sure there are a lot more Japanese than Costa Ricans in "big 4 leagues," but I'd say Costa Rica was damn superior to Japan at the 2014 World Cup. Maybe two years from now there will be more Americans playing in the Premier League than Japanese? So what? Will that mean our development programs will have moved ahead of Japan's? Of course not. It would be a silly argument then, just as it is now.. I just think that in this debate we don't give ourselves enough credit. Could Omar Gonzalez have decided to play in the Bundesliga? Yes. Matt Besler had interest from Premier League clubs, but chose to stay in MLS. Could Matt Besler have played in the Bundesliga? Yes. Do I think Bill Hamid could make a move to a club in Germany and do very well? Yes. I do. I could go on and on with players currently in MLS that I think are Bundesliga caliber players...................but aren't there. Do I think yougner players like WIll Trapp and Shane O'Neill and Luis Gil (Not as confident about that one. 2015 will be big for him) and others could make the move to a bigger Euro league soon like Yedlin did? Yes. I do. It should also be noted that as Japan hasn't qualified for the last 4 U20 World Cups, Japan-o-philes must then also admit that the US performing poorly at the CONCACAF U20 qualifiers is thus not a measure of our development programs in any way. As it certainly isn't a measure of Japan's.
Given the same wages I'd gladly take a job in the states, heck that's why I live here and not Moscow. It's easy to say from the comfort of home that guys should relocate at the drop of a hat, but living in a foreign country and culture wears on many people after awhile.
Ulitmately, the biggest sign for me if we're making progress is by how in demand our players are in top 4 leagues in europe. That's it. We're not there yet. Japan make more 'complete' attacking players and are higher valued than ours. Will US be that way one day? I sure hope so.... Anyway--Clint you have a point. Dropping the whole japan thing after this post anyway. We just don't develop enough technically and from a skill stand point yet to make the world comfortable. It very well may be a perception thing over reality, like many have pointed out we're creating decent players on our youth NT's....or the scouts very well may be right. Either way, we still have ways to go before we see a US NT player in a Man U, Milan, Real Madrid, Barca, etc. jersey.
I agree with this. But, what if the top of your field was in Spain? Wouldn't you want to move out of a pure competitive point? Even if it did pay a tad bit less, you'd probably learn more, adn work with people who are at the top of their field more than you would in the US? But it is tough for kids to move abroad younger. It's not for everyone, and if it's not--there's nothing wrong with that. I made a post on a Donovan thread about a speech Bielsa gave to his team (OM), specifically pointing out the sacrifices you have to make in order to be a top player. The way he puts it is the truth. Sad but true... "...Because to be the best--it takes you from happiness, hours with your wife, with your friends, it takes you away from parties--fun. You guys (all of his players), have a very big problem. Very very big. You have a lot of money, but you don't have the time to make the best use of it. In terms of happiness what money can give you. That I already know because I've seen it an infinite amount of times. You would be willing to pay for the time. You would pay in order to for it, like any normal person would. Now, success takes away your ability to be happy. It's also a choice. If he (Mendy--a player he pegged as a next big star) who is only 20 years old, should know. If you choose not to be the best in the world, what's the problem? There isn't one; but you have to know it."
Yes if I was at th elite level of my field and the pay was commiserate, I would be in Spain. But I wouldn't equate Sunderland or a low level budesliga club like Hertha with being top of the field.
"Could haves" can only be proven if they actually happen. You have a knack for talking about what you think could have happened rather than what actually happens. Since "could haves" are ultimately unprovable, it's best to leave them out of a worthwhile discussion. That time may never come. Nothing is guaranteed, that league may never become elite.
We can morph it into an "autopsy thread" after the qualifying tournament ends one way or another................. Maybe the mods would like to keep all of the craziness in one place.
Japan has a lot of similarities to us ... we're both big, wealthy nations that didn't have a lot of soccer tradition and started to make a push around the same time. Frankly, it's a shame that we haven't cultivated more of a rivalry with them to try to spur one another along. Interesting point. Without knowing more about Japan's U20s, I can't speculate as to why they've crashed out in four straight quarterfinals. It certainly speaks to one-off qualifiers being a precarious format, though. Japan's U20s have done well in their groups only to fall at the final hurdle.
The Tyler Miller quote you posted today was a surprise to me. He's a smart, well educated U20 pool kid who wanted to go play in Europe yet still had no idea how to get there. http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/tyler-miller-to-germany.2015611/ If more guys had concrete offers abroad, more guys would surely take them. As it is, Leo Stolz won the Hermann, and as of last word, the best that anyone in his home country had offered him was a tryout with a U23 team.
Yes, you are completely right. I've said this many times. I don't think there is any question that we want to see our players excelling in these youth tournaments because why wouldn't you want these players getting as much exposure as possible against high level competition? Player development is by far the most important thing you can get from these cycles. From what I've seen, this crop is developing individually, but as a team, they just seem to be struggling for a number of reasons. Given that I think most of us care a lot more about the end result of what these players turn into at the senior level, I think we should still be excited about this crop. Even if they don't qualify for the U-20 WC, I still think this crop of players is more individually talented than previous cycles and there are more players progressing well with their club teams.