2014 US Open Cup...

I'd be interested in seeing that broken by down by how each league has done against better leagues and against worse leagues.

 

Knock yourself out.

I can tell you how MLS has done against the leagues below it over the last 10+years.

MLS vs. Second Division (2004-2014, A-League, USL-1, USSF-2, NASL)

• 73 matches | 39-22-12 (.616)
• Have advanced in 46 of 73 instances (.630)
• At home, MLS teams are 25-3-2 overall in 30 matches and have advanced 26 times (.867)
• On the road, MLS teams are 14-19-10 overall in 43 matches and have advanced 20 times (.465)

MLS vs. Third Division (2004-2014, PSL, USL-2, USL Pro)

• 56 matches | 37-15-4 (.696)
• Have advanced in 39 of 56 instances (.696)
• At home, MLS teams are 26-6-2 overall in 34 matches and have advanced 27 times (.794)
• On the road, MLS teams are 11-9-2 overall in 22 matches and have advanced 12 times (.545)

MLS vs. Amateur Clubs (2004-2014, PDL and USASA)

• 20 matches | 17-2-1 (.875)
• Have advanced in 17 of 20 instances (.850)
• At home, MLS teams are 15-1-1 overall in 17 matches and have advanced 15 times (.882)
• On the road, MLS teams are 2-1-0 overall in 3 matches and have advanced 2 times (.667)

MLS vs. All Lower-Division Clubs

• 149 matches | 93-39-17 (.681)
• Have advanced in 102 of 149 instances (.685)
• At home, MLS teams are 66-10-5 overall in 81 matches and have advanced 68 times (.840)
• On the road, MLS teams are 27-29-12 overall in 68 matches and have advanced 34 times (.500)

 

All leagues, 2014
W-L-T (Adv.)

MLS (12-3-1) (12)
vs. NASL.....3-2-1 (3)
vs. USL Pro..6-1-0 (6)
vs. PDL......2-0-0 (2)
vs. NPSL.....0-0-0 (0)
vs. USASA....1-0-0 (1)
----------------------
vs. Above....N/A
vs. Below....12-3-1 (12)

NASL (8-5-1) (8)
vs. MLS......2-3-1 (2)
vs. USL Pro..2-1-0 (2)
vs. PDL......0-1-0 (0)
vs. NPSL.....2-0-0 (2)
vs. USASA....2-0-0 (2)
----------------------
vs. Above....2-3-1 (2)
vs. Below....6-2-0 (6)

USL PRO (19-11-1) (19)
vs. MLS......1-6-0 (1)
vs. NASL.....1-2-0 (1)
vs. PDL......9-2-0 (9)
vs. NPSL.....4-1-0 (4)
vs. USASA....4-0-1 (4)
----------------------
vs. Above....2-8-0 (2)
vs. Below...17-3-1 (17)

PDL (9-17-2) (9)
vs. MLS......0-2-0 (0)
vs. NASL.....1-0-0 (1)
vs. USL Pro..2-9-0 (2)
vs. NPSL.....3-3-0 (3)
vs. USASA....3-3-2 (3)
----------------------
vs. Above....3-11-0 (3)
vs. Below....6-6-2 (6)

NPSL (6-11-1) (6)
vs. NASL.....0-2-0 (0)
vs. USL Pro..1-4-0 (1)
vs. PDL......3-3-0 (3)
vs. USASA....1-2-1 (1)
vs. USCS.....1-0-0 (1)
----------------------
vs. Above....4-9-0 (4)
vs. Below....2-2-1 (2)

USASA (6-11-4) (10)
vs. MLS......0-1-0 (0)
vs. NASL.....0-2-0 (0)
vs. USL Pro..0-4-1 (1)
vs. PDL......3-3-2 (5)
vs. NPSL.....2-1-1 (3)
vs. USSSA....1-0-0 (1)
----------------------
vs. Above....5-10-4 (9)
vs. Below....1-0-0 (1)

USCS (0-1-0) (0)
vs. NPSL.....0-1-0

USSSA (0-1-0) (0)
vs. USASA....0-1-0

 

NASL was not in the tournament in 2011.
This is what I get for NASL from 2012-2014 (so far):

(W-L-T)

v. MLS
Home: 7-3-1
Away: 1-9-0
Overall: 8-12-1 (9-12 on advancement)

v. USL Pro
Home: 2-1-0
Away: 1-1-0
Overall: 3-2-0

v. PDL
Home: 2-2-2
Away: 1-0-0
Overall: 3-2-2 (3-3 on advancement)

v. NPSL
Home: 1-0-0
Away: 4-0-0
Overall: 5-0-0

v. USASA
Home: 2-0-0
Away: 1-0-0
Overall: 3-0-0

Combined against lower divisions
Home: 7-3-2
Away: 7-1-0
Overall: 14-4-2 (15-5 on advancement)

Errors are possible.

 

I guess they don't listen.

 

Getting the game at home is very important for uslpro and nasl

 

So this year the PDL and NPSL have better records against leagues above them than the USL has.

 

Well, sure. The only leagues above USL Pro are NASL and MLS. The PDL and NPSL also have USL Pro above them. And Kenn counts the PDL as above the NSPL so they get some wins from that.

USL Pro had 2 wins against the NASL and MLS.
PDL had 1 win against a NASL team, none against MLS.
The NPSL had 0 wins against the NASL and didn't play any MLS teams because none of their teams made it to the 4th round.

The NSPL and PDL went a combined 3-13 against USL Pro.

 

And I think that's fair, for reasons I have stated before.

2013 data:

MLS (24-15-1) (25)
vs. MLS......9-9-0 (9)
vs. NASL.....4-3-0 (4)
vs. USL Pro..7-3-1 (8)
vs. PDL......4-0-0 (4)
----------------------
vs. Above....N/A
vs. Below....15-6-1 (16)

NASL (6-5-2) (7)
vs. MLS......3-4-0 (3)
vs. USL Pro..1-0-0 (1)
vs. PDL......1-1-2 (2)
vs. NPSL.....1-0-0 (1)
----------------------
vs. Above....3-4-0 (3)
vs. Below....3-1-2 (4)

USL Pro (12-11-3) (14)
vs. MLS......3-7-1 (3)
vs. NASL.....0-1-0 (0)
vs. PDL......7-3-1 (8)
vs. USASA....2-0-1 (3)
----------------------
vs. Above....3-8-1 (3)
vs. Below....9-3-2 (11)

PDL (14-14-4) (16)
vs. MLS......0-4-0 (0)
vs. NASL.....1-1-2 (2)
vs. USL Pro..3-7-1 (3)
vs. NPSL.....5-1-1 (6)
vs. USASA....5-1-0 (5)
----------------------
vs. Above....4-12-3 (5)
vs. Below...10-2-1 (11)

NPSL (3-7-1) (3)
vs. NASL.....0-1-0 (0)
vs. PDL......1-5-1 (1)
vs. USASA....0-1-0 (0)
vs. USCS.....1-0-0 (1)
vs. USSSA....1-0-0 (1)
----------------------
vs. Above....1-6-1 (1)
vs. Below....2-1-0 (2)

USASA (2-7-1) (2)
vs. USL Pro..0-2-1 (0)
vs. PDL......1-5-0 (1)
vs. NPSL.....1-0-0 (1)
----------------------
vs. Above....2-7-1 (2)

USCS (0-1-0) (0)
vs. NPSL.....0-1-0 (0)

USSSA (0-1-0) (0)
vs. NPSL.....0-1-0 (0)

Not terribly surprising, really. I'd have to look at years of data and compare it to other countries, but it makes sense that once you get a reasonable sample size, you're going to see leagues do better against leagues below them and worse against leagues above them, with the occasional shocker because that's the nature of the game.

 

Here's some 2013-2014 FA Cup information from England where the clubs at the top two levels enter in the Third Round which has 64 clubs:

Third Round: 8 out of 10 Premier League clubs that played lower level clubs advanced against lower level clubs with 1 eliminated by a League Championship (second level) club. 10 Premier League clubs played each other.
Out of the 24 League Championship clubs, 4 played each other, 7 played Premier League clubs (with 1 advancing), and 13 played lower level clubs (with 8 advancing). There were two matchups with both clubs at League One or lower.

Fourth Round: There were 13 Premier League, 11 League Championship, and 8 League One or lower clubs. Premier League clubs played each other in 1 pairing, and 9 out of 11 Premier League playing lower level clubs advanced. League Championship clubs played each other in 1 pairing, played Premier League clubs in 6 pairings with 1 League Championship club advancing, and played League One or lower clubs in 3 pairings advancing every time. League One or lower clubs played 5 pairings against Premier League clubs with 1 League One club beating a Premier League club.

The Fifth Round composition was 10 Premier League clubs, 5 League Championship clubs, and 1 League One club, so the U.S. Open Cup has more top level clubs in its 2014 Round of 16, but in the U.S. Open Cup MLS clubs will never meet before the Round of 16. In the 48 FA Cup Third Round and Fourth Round pairings, 11 pairings had both clubs at the same level or clubs at different levels with both of them League One or worse.

I'm not spending any more time on this, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_FA_Cup#Third_Round_Proper has results if somebody else would like to. It also might be useful to compare the U.S. Open Cup to another country's tournament. In the 2013-2014 Copa del Rey, the La Liga clubs started in the Round of 32 like MLS clubs do in the U.S. Open Cup, but since La Liga has 20 clubs, there were 4 pairings of 2 La Liga clubs.

 

I don't disagree. I was mostly just pointing that out as some people put the PDL and NPSL at the same level.

 

I understand that they do.

I think a lot of that is wishful thinking on their part.

Both levels are amateur, but so are USASA, USSSA and USCS. Yet, there's no one who would put them on teh same level as the PDL.

PDL teams - in general - are far better organized from a club standpoint (for the most part), feature higher-quality players (or at least players who are deemed to be of a higher quality, based on where they play college soccer), seem to tend to last longer and do better against the NPSL than NPSL clubs do in all of those metrics.

When NPSL teams stop folding up shop mid-season, when they stop forfeiting Open Cup matches because they can't rent a high school field, when they stop renting high school fields and moving around when they can't pay for them, when there's a consistent number of games played by everybody in the league, when they stop adding 30 teams in an off-season and when they have a comparable failure rate to the PDL, then we can have that conversation.

 

That's it.. I quit.. Colorado has the opportunity to host three USOC games in a row.. That is inconceivable!

http://www.ussoccer.com/stories/2014/06/23/14/51/140623-usoc-quaterfinal-pairings-rel

Date	Game	Time/Result	Venue
July 8	Rochester Rhinos (USL PRO) / New England Revolution (MLS) winner at Philadelphia Union (MLS)	7 p.m. ET	PPL Park; Chester, Pa.
or
July 8	Rochester Rhinos (USL PRO) / New England Revolution (MLS) winner at New York Cosmos (NASL)	7 p.m. ET	Belson Stadium (St. John’s Univ.); Queens, N.Y.
TBD	Columbus Crew (MLS) / Chicago Fire (MLS) winner at Colorado Rapids (MLS)	7 p.m. MT	Dick’s Sporting Goods Park; Commerce City, Colo.
TBD	Columbus Crew (MLS) / Chicago Fire (MLS) winner at Atlanta Silverbacks (NASL)	7:30 p.m. ET	Atlanta Silverbacks Park; Chamblee, Ga.
July 8	FC Dallas (MLS) / Houston Dynamo (MLS) winner at LA Galaxy (MLS)	7:30 p.m. PT	StubHub Center; Carson, Calif.
or
July 9	FC Dallas (MLS) / Houston Dynamo (MLS) winner at Carolina RailHawks (NASL)	7:30 p.m. ET	WakeMed Soccer Park; Cary, N.C.
July 9	Portland Timbers (MLS) / Sporting Kansas City (MLS) winner at Seattle Sounders (MLS)	7:30 p.m. PT	Starfire Sports Complex; Tukwila, Wash.
or
TBD	Sporting Kansas City (MLS) at San Jose Earthquakes (MLS)	7:30 p.m. PT	Buck Shaw Stadium; Santa Clara, Calif.
or
July 8	Portland Timbers (MLS) at San Jose Earthquakes (MLS)	7:30 p.m. PT	Buck Shaw Stadium; Santa Clara, Calif.

 

Payback for all those years we "lost" the coin flip?

 

Does anyone know who earned the amateur $15K? I seem to remember a tiebreaker process being used to award it to one club rather than splitting it between multiple clubs all going out in the same round, but don't remember the specifics.

 

Laredo, Orlando City U23 and PSA Elite were the last amateur clubs to be eliminated.

*If two or more teams advance to the same round, the following order of steps will be used to determine
which single team will be awarded the prize money:
1. Team with the most victories against opponents from three divisions higher
2. Team with the most draws against opponents from three divisions higher
3. Team with the most victories against opponents from two divisions higher
4. Team with the most draws against opponents from two divisions higher
5. Team with the most victories against opponents from one division higher
6. Team with the most draws against opponents from one division higher
7. Team with the most victories against opponents from same division
8. Team with the most draws against opponents from same division
9. Team with the most overall victories
10. Prize money to be divided equally among the teams

PSA Elite beat LA Misioneros of the PDL in penalties after a 1-1 draw, got a forfeit over the NPSL's San Diego Flash and beat LA Galaxy II in penalties after a 0-0 draw before losing to Seattle, so they didn't actually win a single game in the competition.

Orlando City beat Jacksonville of the PDL, beat Charleston of USL Pro in penalties after a 2-2 draw, then lost to Portland of MLS.

And Laredo beat Red Force of USASA, beat Fort Lauderdale of the NASL and then lost to Houston of MLS.

So nobody beat an MLS team (three divisions higher)
Nobody drew with an MLS team (three divisions higher)
So I think Laredo's win over Fort Lauderdale (two divisions higher) gives them the cash.

 

Thanks to both Kenn and msilverstein! Repped!

 

MLS is now 14-5-1 against lower division teams in this year's Open Cup.
Last year they were 15-6-1.

 

http://thecup.us/2014-us-open-cup-semifinal-pairings-and-host-scenarios-set/
Best of luck to Silverbacks. I want another home game for Portland timbers and against a non MLS team would be good

 

Who is DC Dallas?

 

Defectors club Dallas?