2014 FIFA World Cup™ Semi-Finals: Germany vs Brazil| Tuesday, Jul 8, 3:00 PM

Discussion in 'World Cup 2014 - Knockout Rounds' started by soccerfan93, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. rios

    rios Member

    Jun 9, 2006
    Club:
    Villarreal CF
    that's the only thing going for em at this point it seemed
     
  2. SoyDelMustang

    SoyDelMustang Member+

    Dec 24, 2007
    Flushing,Queens
    Club:
    Atletico Nacional
    Nat'l Team:
    Colombia
    Let's go Germany!!!!! Come on mueller!, show them your diving game is on point. Watch out with tho Brazilian lumberjacks hackin at your feet though! Haha
     
  3. Deep Pal

    Deep Pal Member+

    Jun 19, 2013
    India,Kolkata
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Nice to see football fans like you who has respect for opponents .

    I wanted to know a couple of things , does Scolari's policy of over reliance on Neymar going to cost Brasil a 6th World Cup ? Scolari could have easily called up Lucas Moura ( who had a very strong end to his season at PSG) and Coutinho ( who had an outstanding season at LFC) , who could have added that creativity and spark which inevitably Brazil is going to miss now . Is Scolari's rigidity to continue with tried and tested players going to finally lead a cruel blow to Brasil's aspirations ?

    So far in the WC , the coaches have been quite flexible and tried out various combinations ( Loew with his 4 CB-s at the back , Sabella replacing Fernandez and Gago today , LvG with secrets up his sleeve all the time ) , while we have seen nothing of that sort from Scolari - it is quite clear that Fred is dismal to say the least , why is he still persisting with him ?
     
  4. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    As I see it, this Brazil team, away from home, without Neymar and Silva, is quite ordinary. I say this despite the fact that I think Hulk is a more useful player than he is often given credit for and, even though, I still like a couple of other Brazilian players like Marcelo and ... Well, frankly, the other one doesn't come to my mind!

    Anyway, Brazil will be playing at home, in a game where it will have the support of the crowd, against an opponent they all respect. Under these circumstances, even a somewhat ordinary-looking Brazil team, which itself makes it not so ordinary by Brazilian standards, may be able to beat the Germans. But this Brazil team, without Neymar in particular, if it beats Germany, will have defeated them as a team. Nothing like the old Brazilian flair will feature in that victory.

    I, incidentally, will stick by my prediction that Brazil will lose the final to Messi's Argentina. But the one team that I think could beat Argentina in the final is, in fact, Germany.
     
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  5. Plxix

    Plxix BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Mar 13, 2006
    This Brazil team was built around Neymar on the attack, so without him it's difficult to reset. If they have fast attackers there will be a good chance to beat Germany, but they don't. Hulk is the only worthy forward. Willian, Jo and Fred tend to either suck or disappear.

    This game will be very, very physical (pressing + running). Brazil must resort to this to win.
     
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  6. rick100

    rick100 Member+

    Jun 4, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Alianza Lima
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    yea you are right they lost at home more than 20 years ago PLOP!

    You were probably saying spain in the finals would be exciting , too bad chile taugh them how to play soccer in the group stage... Argentina and brazil also gave spain a little lesson on how to play soccer not too long ago :)





    its ok to underestimate teams ! .. The almighty netherlands almost lost to penalty to number 1 rank team costa rica :) . The almighty germany also had to take the number 2 rank team algeria to overtime :)... sarcasm BTW
     
  7. RedFuryFan

    RedFuryFan Member

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    Spain did something not even Brazil has done, nor Argentina and Uruguay. 3 consecutive major titles. She revolutionized the game. Produced the greatest team to ever stwo onto the field both in club and international football. If you're trying to take a poke at me mate, lol youllnhave to do better than that.


    Spain did what Brazil could not, win with joga bonito. Even Brazil now play like typical south Americans, hacking to interrupt the flow of the game, cheating, elbowing etc etc.....BTW what's your first language? ;) i think Spain's future is bright take care
     
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  8. Redshift

    Redshift Member+

    Dec 14, 2004
    Los Angeles, CA
    Club:
    Corinthians Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't know. Rationally, probably. Emotionally and in my gut as a fan, I hope and believe not.

    I can't speak to those specific players, because I didn't really follow club football last season. But yes, the lack of creativity in the offensive third may cost us dearly. It's our biggest weakness. At the same time, to be fair, Brazil doesn't have any good substitutes for Neymar in the position he played in this WC and the CC last year. He's irreplaceable. Some other promising creative players in different positions, like Ganso, haven't really played out as hoped. Brasil's lack of options is amazing when you think about it. And the irony of it happening right when we're hosting the WC is not lost on me or other seleção fans.

    I don't know if it will defeat our aspirations. I do know it's cruel for us to have to endure his teimosia (stubbornness and insistence on his way of doing this things despite criticism). Scolari is a very stubborn man and he's counseled by another stubborn man, Carlos Alberto Parreira (who was the manager for our winning 94 campaign, and our losing 2006 campaign). Scolari is loyal to a fault (see Fred, but there really aren't that many better options) and demands the same in return. Parreira values coherence and consistency over improvisation. We'll see soon enough how it works out.

    Scolari is not a master tactician. He builds defensively solid, pragmatic teams that are great at grinding out results in single elimination competitions. He's not a tinkerer. He has an intuitive player's understanding of the game, and some riffs on a basic system he believes in. His main strengths are motivation and man management. He's actually been somewhat more flexible this time around in finally dropping Daniel Alves for Maicon and Paulinho for Fernandinho. The problems at those positions were too great to deny. Credit to him for recognizing it. By we don't really have good alternatives to Fred. Jô is worse. Scolari floated playing Neymar as a False 9, but we obviously can't now. Parreira doesn't believe in back 3s, so we probably won't switch to a 3-5-2 like we played in 2002.

    My guess is that we'll see a riff on the first half of Brasil-Colombia in the semi, except modified to exploit what he perceives as Germany's weaknesses.
     
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  9. rick100

    rick100 Member+

    Jun 4, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Alianza Lima
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    Spain copy what argentina used to do for many years. Maybe you should check this video



    Nothing new buddy. Tiki taka is nothing new , most southamerican teams have been practicing for many years, as a matter of fact argentina has been doing it since pekerman took over. Maybe you should go check out some videos on how argentina youth team used to play back in the days ( 1997s) . Spain just copy the style and somehow revolutionized the game LOL pleasee...

    Spain is pretty lucky they did not have to faced brazil or argentina in the last world cup . Look what argentina did to spain right after they won the world cup , 4-1 , then brazil 3-0 in confederation cup. Chile also beat spain . Last world cup spain barely beat chile 2-1 and paraguay 1-0 .
    Don't even start with barcelona or real madrid because they owe their titles to messi and ronaldo and none of them are spanish .
     
  10. RedFuryFan

    RedFuryFan Member

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    We credit our football to the dutch, its pretty obvious why. What are you trying to do? Antagonize? We are still champions until next Sunday
     
  11. igorcsso

    igorcsso Member

    Jul 1, 2014
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Germany is definitely the favorite in my opinion, but hopefully brazil will get through this. :thumbsup:
    The german team is far more balanced, but i dont understand some choices of joachim low (that line of defense, the positioning of lahm, i think schurlle deserves a definitive place on the team...). Do the germans agree with this coach?

    I have no idea about what scolari will do, but I think he will (should) explore the weakest point of the germans -> howedes (but i have to admit that he played very well against france).

    If we lose on tuesday, i'll definetely will support germany. Some of my favorite players are germans: Schweinsteiger, Reus and Gundogan are in my top 10 for sure. Pity that the last two got injured.
    Lot of brazilians are loving the way the german players are enjoying their time here in brazil. Metting the locals, singing local team anthems, posting photos wearing brazilian t-shirts, tweeting in portuguese, watching brazil games with local ppl. They're having such a good time, mainly podolski and schweinsteiger. The german federation promised to invest on a local school. Thats so beautiful. Very charismatic ppl.
     
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  12. rick100

    rick100 Member+

    Jun 4, 2009
    Canada
    Club:
    Alianza Lima
    Nat'l Team:
    Peru
    no , you should credit your football to the southamericans. Maybe you should take a look at barcelona greatest players

    Ronaldinho, messi , rivaldo , ronaldo , romario , neymar , alves, marquez , alexis sanchez, masherano and the list goes on . You guys pretty much owe your last titles in the champions league to messi and ronaldihno.

    I wont even mention reals players because spain practices barcelona style.

    You should also look at the dutch sneider , robben . They did not even last in la liga .
     
  13. RedFuryFan

    RedFuryFan Member

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    If you think I was being eurocentric, you're wrong. I was cheering for #1 Chile #2 Colombia but they have been eliminated. Now I don't particularly care who wins.
     
  14. igorcsso

    igorcsso Member

    Jul 1, 2014
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    In my opinion thats why our most talented players were burned off. Players like Kaka, Ronaldinho, Adriano and even Ronaldo could be playing this WC. They just couldn't maintain their level for different reasons.
    The current generation is not so talented as the ones before, the team is composed by "hard work" and lack of inspiration and improvisation, in my opinion.
    The young talents are still doubts, except neymar, maybe. Ganso and Lucas Moura had their chances, but the were not convincent.
     
  15. Renato Goulart

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Jun 25, 2014
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I disagree with pretty much everything in this post, but understand that we are so far apart here that this discussion will probably lead nowhere.

    Statistically it's true, there are several other stats we can pull up that are unique to each champion. In context, I don't think it's that meaningful. Spain was the best European team during 4 years (2008-2012), Europe dominated the 2010 World Cup. I believe that's pretty much it.
    The Copa America is not really comparable to the Euro, as South American teams don't give it as much emphasis. If you want to look for statistical dominance, look at Brazil between 1994-2004:
    2 out of 3 World Cup Titles (got second place in 1998 vs. hosts France)
    3 out of 5 Copa Americas (got second place in 1995 vs. hosts Uruguay)

    I wouldn't even put Spain in the top 5 greatest teams ever. What revolution of the game has it brought on to be kept for future generations?

    In terms of club football, Barcelona and Real Madrid are no doubt among the best in the world, if not at the top of the list. But we're talking about two teams historically led by non-Spaniards.

    I'm not sure what you call joga bonito. Maybe I have no idea what it means, or maybe you have no idea what it means. If my idea of joga bonito is accurate, Brazil has won 3 World Cups with that style (1958, 1962, 1970), which except for Germany and Italy, accounts for more World Cups than any other team has won regardless of style. Brazil changed its style of play, yes. The interruption of the flow of the game has been a pattern which I don't like, but I don't think of Brazil of a cheating and elbowing team. In any case, practically our entire national team has played in Europe ever since very young age, so the game style they play is the one they bring from their clubs - Chelsea, Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, etc.

    I admit it's difficult for me to predict the future, but if I were to guess, I think Spain's future looks a lot like it's history outside of this generation of players. Two rich clubs that attract the best talent of the world to a league that could be decided by a coin flip each year, and a solid national team that strives to make it to the quarter finals in the World Cup and perhaps achieve something greater every 50 years or so.
     
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  16. benztown

    benztown Member+

    Jun 24, 2005
    Club:
    VfB Stuttgart
    Let me take the middle ground here and then be done with Spain in his thread:
    1) The 2008-2012 Spanish team must rank among the all time greats. While I don't think you can compare teams across generations, this certainly must have been the best NT of my lifetime. The way they controlled every single match was just amazing.
    2) Spain certainly didn't play "Jogo Bonito". In fact, it wasn't pretty at all. But it was technically brilliant.
     
  17. RedFuryFan

    RedFuryFan Member

    May 14, 2014
    Club:
    Celta de Vigo
    You are correct in that we will disagree with many opinions, but let me ask you this, why is it that the dutch were ashamed with how Netherlands played vs Spain in 2010, but the Brazilian people are not with regards to this current Brazilian team? I am 30 and when I was growing up, Brazil would regulalrly win the FIFA fair play award, along with the world cup.

    Perhaps I hold Brazil to a higher standard, as they sit #1 on the historical throne, that is not in question.
     
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  18. Deep Pal

    Deep Pal Member+

    Jun 19, 2013
    India,Kolkata
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    #118 Deep Pal, Jul 6, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2014
    Spain followed the Barca model of tiki taka that Pep Guardioala had used with such aplomb winning several trophies in the way , and guess what Pep before taking up the role as the manager of Barca spent a good time following Bielsa's tactics as well as personally being in Argentina , so it would be wrong to say that Spain attributes its success to the dutch model of total football .

    you absolutely have no clue if you associate joga bonito with the boring tiki taka that Spain used to grind out results , how many goals did they score in 7 matches in the WC - 8 , while if you are indeed looking for joga bonito look no further than the Brasil squad of 1982 where they plundered 15 goals in what 5 matches iirc , and scoring all kinds of goals , slow build up goals , counter attacking goals , volleys from well outside the box ..I do not remember any such goals from Spain .

    Spain had a very successful era which coincided with Barcelona's cycle , but do not confuse it with joga bonito .
     
  19. TASDD

    TASDD Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    Brazil not fielding Neymar is a disadvantage for Germany
     
  20. Deep Pal

    Deep Pal Member+

    Jun 19, 2013
    India,Kolkata
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Care to explain why ?
     
  21. jerrito

    jerrito Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    America
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Why does greatness have to include some sort of revolution? This clearly is an attempt to lower the value of a fantastic accomplishment. What Spain did was to be technically and tactically remarkably consistent for a longer period than just about any other nation in football history.

    One of the more amusing things I have seen on this site this World Cup is the incredible of arrogance of some Brazilian posters who seem to believe that they are not only hosting the World Cup, but actually own it.

    You don't think winning a Euro, a World Cup, and another Euro, along with a 35 match unbeaten streak is "not meaningful?" or worth even a "top 5" accomplishment? You (and others) sound like a king looking down on his peasants from his throne. Unbelievable.
     
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  22. TASDD

    TASDD Member

    Jul 2, 2014
    someone else did before... ;)

    they were predictable before.. and neymar didn't do any magic so far.. I didn't saw Brasils qualifier, so he may just crack under the pressure of the WC, but he didn't justified the Neymar-centered gameplay so far.. Brasil looks like Argentina 2010 with an underperforming Messi
     
  23. Deep Pal

    Deep Pal Member+

    Jun 19, 2013
    India,Kolkata
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    Messi scored 0 goals in the 2010 WC . Neymar already had 4 goals , 2 assists . He also has created 13 chances , which is the highest for Brasil in this WC . He had 241 touches which is also the team high. So do not pull off things which are not backed by facts . And Brasil did not have to qualify for the WC since a host nation does not need to go through the qualification process .
     
  24. Deep Pal

    Deep Pal Member+

    Jun 19, 2013
    India,Kolkata
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    India
    As someone pointed out earlier , which is more impressive winning 2 WC and being runners up in another in a 8 year span or winning 2 euros and 1 WC ?

    It would be a fair assesment to say Spain dominated European football , perhaps that the Spanish NT's succesful run coincided with Barcelona's dream run attributed to the fact that they were dominating world football , which is not true . European football is not looked upon as the benchmark for technical football .

    Spain always have struggled against SA teams , winning narrowly against Chile , Paraguay in 2010 , getting beaten by , Brasil and Argentina ( I know you can make a case of Confed Cup and friendlies as meaningless , but no one likes to get thrashed even in a friendly ) and even being beaten 2-0 by Chile in 2014 .

    But I agree , what Spain did was remarkable and definitely a top 5 achievment in the history of football , because not admitting it would be as ignorant as saying they did what no other team has ever done .
     
  25. jerrito

    jerrito Member+

    Jun 22, 2006
    America
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
     

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