2013 USLPRO Attendance Thread

I am missing a handful of games (9 at last count, some of them MLS Reserve teams at home), and have 2,622 total and 2,186 without Orlando, 34% <1,000 and 17%>5,000 so we're close.

The good? League-wide (without the MLS Reserve teams, who actually bring the average down), the average is on par with last year (which was the highest in DIII history). The games I'm missing (one in Rochester, three in LA, one in Tampa Bay) will probably bring that down a bit. But it's still ahead of 3-4 years ago and way ahead of 10 years ago. Obviously, Pittsburgh's growth, thanks to the new stadium is huge (up 233%, which is probably a record for season-over-season), and Orlando was up another 22% (not that they'll be there much longer, it would appear). Richmond (up 6%), Dayton (5%), Charlotte (4%) and Harrisburg (3%) saw very small gains and aren't likely to see much more without new stadiums (or, in Charlotte's case, more money that isn't likely forthcoming).

The bad? Rochester's (cough cough) announced average was off 7% (with a game missing), Charleston was down 10% (though still within historical norms), LA was down 21% (with three missing games that probably can't help them) and you'd presume can't possibly continue. Wilmington was alarming (down 26%). Phoenix was a disaster after a great start (too much has been said about them already) and VSI Tampa Bay was even worse.

A lot of what we've seen - at both the DII and DIII levels - is Soccer Darwinism, where the bottom-feeders can't really even exist anymore on the scale they once did. The DII standards have made it far more likely that a club will have resources to sell and market itself. DIII has obviously had some successes in that regard, but still has trouble spots and still lets owners in that probably shouldn't be there. (And this is nothing new - I've been on that kick since 1998 when I worked in the league.) So numbers are going to go up a bit just by the math.

But soccer - at all levels - is more accepted now, it's being presented better, played better, coached better, and in the places that survive today, has put down roots and there are many places where the populace (if it cares about its team) doesn't have to worry about it going away any time soon (at least, they can worry a lot less). That, too, helps.

Better stadiums, better owners, more time. Those things will help. But really lame organizations need to be dealt with, not just shrugged at, if DIII is going to shape up as DII appears to be on the way to doing.

 

@kenntomasch, your comments are not as depressing as I thought they would be.

Any idea what's gone wrong in Wilmington? Down 26% is troubling.

Charlotte and Dayton both did better on the pitch and in the standings this year than last, at least, they made the playoffs this year. Would that help explain their attendance bump? Or is that down to marketing? Do you think they are making progress in their markets?

So, it seems there is a good chance that both Antigua and Phoenix do not return for next season. VSI, even with their woeful attendance, will almost certainly return. Hopefully, they will have learned some lessons. Do you think LA will fold? They did a lot wrong this season by moving their home venue several times. It seems like a team should pick one place to play and stay there.

OK. I'll try to be less optimistic at the start of next season.

 

I think one thing helping Dayton was they had ONE venue this year compared to 3 (I believe) venues last season.

That makes a big difference. The home crowd knows where the matches are, they don't have to chase the team around Dayton.

But...doing well also helps too.

 

exactly HOW did that help them? They are still averaging <1000 per game?!

 

But...the question was posed in increasing attendance -- small increase, but it was an increase.

I listed a couple of options on how the they could have seen an increase. The help also was having the Columbus Crew come to town and have a sellout crowd for it. That may have offset some low attendance numbers.

There has been an increase in media presence in Dayton, I do know that. So...with a pro team that is 2 years old, essentially, they are still figuring things out AND the community has yet to figure them out.

 

I am neither depressing nor uplifting. I am realistic.

Believe I said that.

A competitive team helps, but results are rarely a straight-line indicator of the ability to sell tickets. Charlotte has been around for two decades, "progress in their market" stopped being realistic a whole back. Neither they nor Dayton have any real money, which is critical.

Does your whole life play out as stream of consciousness as this?

 

As to Charleston and Wilmington, weather was not our friend this season. We've had one of the wettest summer in recent history. And for Charleston, we had fewer Saturday matches than we've had in the past.

plus I had to miss one match because I was in DC

 

Richmond drew 2,539 for its semifinal after getting 4,265 for the quarterfinal. Might have been a tough sell on a holiday weekend, don't know. But someone was just saying Richmond "deserved" a good crowd for some reason or another.

I would imagine Orlando will draw well for the final, even with short notice. Certainly more than Richmond would have.

 

I reckon about 16k will show up for the final. In 2011 we doubled our regular season attendance for the final (5.5k regular season attendance, 11k final) so hopefully we can do that again

 

That's your math? The biggest crowd in the history of Division III, the biggest crowd OC will have ever had, because two years ago the regular season average got doubled?

I don't doubt they'll have a terrific crowd. I doubt your simplistic logic.

 

I said "about", i never said my reasoning was gospel and 16k will definitely be at this game. But no doubt there is some sort of correlation between a Championship game and a regular season game, which I just pointed out since this is the attendance thread. Wether it will double, who knows? Personally i think its quite likely to be in that ballpark.

But I think its undeniable that this will be the largest ever OCSC crowd (unless of course torrential rain hits Orlando)

What is the largest crowd in div 3 history btw?

 

This is pretty damning from the Orlando Sentinel on Orlando City's attendance numbers. Every club exaggerates their numbers, but I don't think we've ever seen them at this level:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/os-chart-soccer-stadium-attendance-20130903,0,6934321.story

 

All dem comps, so so many comps. Good luck with your "16,000" at the final. Whatever the sponsors need to hear to keep the checks coming, right? Even I was shocked at the disparity between the reported turnstile average and the team's own distributed count. Ouch.

 

Uh..it's 15,000. Stop exaggerating.

 

4004 for the August 11th match? Yeah, right.
If you were there, you knew it was one of the biggest crowds OC has ever had.

 

This isn't even an article. They couldn't be bothered to post some sort of explanation? Does this mean that they're picking numbers out of thin air or that they're actually admitting that many comps?

Lots of questions.

 

But...it's not ON a "downward slide."

They're on an expansion team losing streak, certainly. I am not sure i would categorize it as a "downward slide," and I am not sure the deal with MLS is some huge tonic as it is.

Used to have six, remember?

Who says they need 24 teams? Holy cow. D3 with 24 teams? With 17 MLS fiefdoms?

It's not the distances that are making LA and Phoenix struggle.

 

As for Orlando, not totally surprising. I don't believe many teams' announced numbers would stand up to scrutiny.

Also, fans believe what they want to believe. You could show them drop counts, you could show them photographs with each individual numbered and they would still believe what they think they see.

 

And there may very well be. I am not questioning that.

I am questioning your logic. Twice the regular season average two years ago does not mean twice the regular season average this year. That's silly. You may as well have said 100 times the temperature reading from two years ago + 3,000 was your method and check the weather and go by that.

11,255 for a Milwaukee at Minnesota game in 1995, AFAIK. Which will still be the regular season record.

 

You can make that case--most teams would--but I'm not sure OCFC can; they're asking the tax payers to front millions for an 18,000 seat stadium, and they're using their current (inflated) attendance in those figures.

Essentially, what the team is doing is getting the county to build them a stadium that's far larger than they need--an MLS sized stadium--so that they don't have to build an addition if/when they move up.