2012/15 Kosuke Kinoshita @ SC Freiburg (GER) Thread [R]

AKITOD · Jan 13, 2013

Yes more than the status quo, Yokohama FC. At his point in the career he wouldve been able to still learn a thing or two in japan in a lower risk environment (and on the back of a little rep' in japan) before overseas. Basically the normal argument why its not preferable for teens to be going overseas too soon.
Low risk for the german team, okay well pointed out its not the lowest risk ever but its low risk in the scheme of transfers.

sc-f · Jan 14, 2013

I think this is comparing predictions of how Kinoshita may do in Freiburg (we'll only know in 1, 2 years) with how Kinoshita would have done at Yokohama FC (we'll never know). The same comparison could be applied to players who may possess some raw talent but don't immediately become regulars at pro-level in Japan, and we would end up saying the opposite of what may have been a lesser risk.

In the scheme of transfers, for a team like Freiburg, the risk is not monetary. But: If you rely on a functioning youth academy, with 1, 2 players making it into the first team squad every year (which is a extremely high rate), importing a talent who is in a later stage of his development indeed poses a risk for this kind of system.

So, of course I am biased, but I am quite sure Kinoshita must have impressed our decision makers, and the risk for the player is not that high.

AKITOD · Jan 14, 2013

In terms of development i feel that at his age, in japan in 2 years he could develop very far.
Im a fan of foreign transfers when it seems X player may need a tougher environment to push them to the next level. But if they're still accessing an environment where they can grow fast then theres not much point. In that the potential benefit i dont think outweighs the risk compared to staying until 22-25 and going.

sc-f · Jan 14, 2013

I understand that but who says you will get a move once your development has begun to show signs of stalling? Or you may get a move but if you are already going toward mid-20, the clubs won't be looking for someone to develop. That's a different kind of risk.

AKITOD · Jan 14, 2013

sc-f said: ↑

I understand that but who says you will get a move once your development has begun to show signs of stalling? Or you may get a move but if you are already going toward mid-20, the clubs won't be looking for someone to develop. That's a different kind of risk.
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If you dont get a move then somebody else probably did, in this case had he not made the move later it would mean he wasnt able to live up to it. Its not a case of stalling but picking the right time to continue the curve (for which youth team of j2 is a bit soon), once they get in and around the top 10-15% (depending on how old). So like Inui's move was timed well in his career. Same with Havenaar (even if it hasnt gone great so far).
As for the mid-20's transfer theres more riding on it for the club which helps the player a little. They're not netting several young players because of who they may become they're going after one or two because of who they are after deciding they need X type of player. Tho with japan not too relevant cause i cant remember who the last player bought from the 26-28 range was.

All opinion obviously but yeah in general im for developing until later than he has done. I do wish him all the luck in the world.

sc-f · Jan 20, 2013

http://www.yokohamafc.com/news/2013/01/20/fc-sc/

Official on Yokohama FC's side.

Dax · Jan 20, 2013

AKITOD said: ↑

If you dont get a move then somebody else probably did, in this case had he not made the move later it would mean he wasnt able to live up to it.
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That is not true, see how many players are stuck in a good-but-probably-judged-not-enough level. Could Masato Kudo also get a move in Europe? Would he develop better there now? Or what about Toyoda? Fact is they're still there and we can't know if they're not "able to live up to it". Maybe they are, fact is nobody is giving them a chance, surely nobody gave a chance to Maeda, apart from a short trial at West Ham. Meanwhile, Kisho Yano got a move, Yuji Ono got a move, Robert Cullen got a move, etc, it's not really just about being up to it...
That's why he simply got a chance now and took it.
Did you read Ono's words on Marinos' site? He's saying the same thing, basically. I don't think he is ready but I can't blame it for making the move.

AKITOD said: ↑

All opinion obviously but yeah in general im for developing until later than he has done. I do wish him all the luck in the world.
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Personally I agree, but it also depends on the youth environment of the teams

AKITOD said: ↑

. But if they're still accessing an environment where they can grow fast then theres not much point. In that the potential benefit i dont think outweighs the risk compared to staying until 22-25 and going.
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And who can say that? He didn't make a single bench at the moment. We can't know what chances he would've had in 2013. To be fair, if Freiburg has a better youth academy, it could also mean that he can actually develop even better, potentially.

Saku² · Jan 20, 2013

you really need to cut the nonsense about making the bench, he was 17.

Dax · Jan 20, 2013

Saku² said: ↑

you really need to cut the nonsense about making the bench, he was 17.
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Look, you tried to make it like everybody makes it through Man City's trials - and trust me it is not true. If Kubo got his fair chances, I don't see why he shouldn't have. Minamino too had them. You're talking as if next year it was guaranteed that he would've played : it's not. That's not the main point of the discussion though...

Saku² · Jan 20, 2013

Yeah and Morimoto was 15. Doesn't make it a regular thing.

Dax · Feb 12, 2013

http://int.soccerway.com/matches/2013/02/10/germany/u-19-bundesliga/1-fc-nurnberg-u19/sc-freiburg-u19/1322011/ Started and played the full game. Also, scored in a friendly one week ago.

edit: he scored! (head)

Saku² · Feb 12, 2013

Guess who scored Freiburg's goal

sc-f · Mar 3, 2013

http://www.scfreiburg.com/teams/junioren/u19/meldungen/u19-gewinnt-40-gegen-fsv-frankfurt

Scored a brace in Freiburg U19's 4-0 win over FSV Frankfurt U19 (with Nakagawa as one top FW?)

Dax · Mar 4, 2013

http://tv.dfb.de/index.php?view=5535
Kosuke's goals

Dax · Mar 16, 2013

scored against Stuttgart U19. 4 goals in 6 matches at the moment.

sc-f · Mar 18, 2013

http://tv.dfb.de/index.php?view=5580

Scored the first, got the PK for the 2nd and was involved in his side's 3rd goal.

Dax · Mar 24, 2013

Scored against Munchen 1860 according to google translate

Yuki Nakagawa also scored with Frankfurt

Saku² · Mar 24, 2013

Unstoppable.

Blue-San · Mar 24, 2013

by the way

teioh · Mar 24, 2013

Very High Quality 1080p video.

Dax · Mar 27, 2013

http://tv.dfb.de/index.php?view=5632
here's Kosuke's goal. Dribbled past the GK.

(and Nakagawa's in Frankfurt's match)

Dax · Apr 28, 2013

Scored, now 6 in 12. Two matches left.

Keren · May 5, 2013

Played 45' and scored against Augsburg (6-0).

karolb · May 9, 2013

people saying he is doing very well in the youth team and they want to see him at higher level of football asap ... he might train with the first team in summer

Dax · May 9, 2013

hmm? What people? That would be extremely surprising. I don't find it likely. I expect him to join Freiburg II next year.

edit: well that doesn't mean he can't train with the first team, but it wouldn't mean much in regards to the league