That's fair, but you're opinion is conditioned by the fact that you didn't pay attention to his defensive duties. And trust me, nobody else could do that (between Havenaar and Morimoto, at least) I don't know, I don't think so. In the Bundesliga the tactics are different and probably more precise than in the J League. That is a fact. I agree when you say that he transferred his playstyle and nothing more. I'm the first to say that Kagawa did at Dortmund the same he did at Cerezo. Absolutely. But to say that he (them) did not improve... I doubt it. He had to deal with way way more physical players, and especially with true stars. And, last, I don't know if you read Nippon Danji (in case, I'd recommend it), but trust me, mental growth is also extremely important in a player. I'd say, it's fundemental. Can you mentally grow in Japan? Sure. Can you do it in Europe? Sure, and trust me, one thing is being good in the J League, and another one is beating the crap out of Bayern Munich. It's really a different boost in confidence. Do you know why Fujimoto isn't in the NT anymore? Because he sucks in the NT. Is he a good player? Actually, I think he is, and Zac too. But he doesn't have the mental strenght to succeed in the NT, apparently. For him, a move to Europe could've been useful, for example. It's not a mantra. You can challenge yourself in Japan, but deep inside you will always know that there's a limit. You can play the ACL, but it doesn't mean anything. If you're a defender, playing against Cristiano Ronaldo is completely different than playing against a Jleague FW. If you're a striker, scoring to Fujigaya is very different than scoring against Casillas and Thiago Silva. Regarding the challenging yourself, it's because if you don't, you'll probably never succeed. Again, give a read to Nippon Danji, or even Hasebe's book. If you find it "fun and relaxing" you will never, never, be Honda, because you will always lack the winning mentality. It's not just about having fun at this level of play. I doubt it, otherwise he would be playing more with Kashiwa. Instead, he's doing absolutely nothing. Look, I DO know that there is a chance to waste yourself in Europa. That's exactly what happened to Makino. Could he play as starter for Koln? Yeah, I'm sure he could have. But that's a different problem. When you sign a contract you've got to understand what the team thinks of you. And, of course, to challenge yourself to get a starting spot. But apart from genious players like Endo, we're not anymore in an era where if you're good - like, really really good, NT material - you don't get noticed in Europe. The only exceptions are the GK position and the CB positions. But something's moving there too (Eiji, Iwanami). I agree, for example I knew since the beginning that Otsu's move was a stupid idea. But, he probably learned something and eventually he could pull off an Inui. Wasn't pathetic for Inui to play in 2nd division? Yeah I think it was. But now he has a great chance to be a starter in the next Bundesliga, so he did well. You can't always play against the jleague players. Really... no. For every Endo, there are thousand of players that don't develop enough only because they don't have a quality trainer\environment\league.
Honda won MVP though. He was outstanding and has gotten better. I think at this point he is better than Kagawa.
Will Zaccheroni do a Slutsky and force Honda to drop back and take control of the team's offense from a deeper role? Because I kind of see him as the successor, or even upgrade to Endo in the volante position. Honda will be bossing the game if he wants, given his physical strength and his playmaking skills. The only issue will really be keeping his motivation up in this position, which I'm still not sure Zac can handle. The move will also force Shinji back into his preferred AM position, and leave the left wing vacant. But with the embarrasment of riches coming up on the wings, especially Miyaichi and Usami, I don't think that will be as difficult to solve as finding a direct 'Endo successor' with the same skill-set. That said, I really though Moe would have been able to contribute to the team with a more physically robust and harassing approach, if played at a higher line than Hasebe.
I know that Maeda works hard as the first line of defence, and maybe at the WC that might work when we're starved of possesion against the top nations. But for over an hour Japan had an extra man on the field, and still the Socceroos were the ones who pushed forward and created all the dangerous chances in the final part of the match. We had them on the ropes for a period of time, I just wish Zach made the most of Millgan's red card with another attacking substition.
Well, actually I agree with you but I think that had more to do with the fact that Hasebe, Endo, Kagawa, Okazaki, too often lost\wasted the ball near\in the box unfortunately.
All night though, it was Honda's link up play alongside Kagawa, which was Japan's best source of danger against the Australia's scrambling defence. Their combination play through the heart of the mid-field often saved Japan from the inept, and troubled play, of both Endo and Hasebe. While Kagawa definitely fell into the trap of over doing things on the edge of the oppositions box, this trait turned out to be the same for all of Japan's attackers seen on the night too. From what I saw, the most obvious issues lay through the struggles of Endo and Hasebe, who found themselves incapable of controlling the game when moving forward, and being badly positioned to help defenders when Australia constantly chose to hit the ball long. Endo was knocked out of his normal rhythm thanks to this one frustrating power and pace tactic of Australia, while Hasebe almost tried too hard at times to force his play in an attempt to make up for his partners out of sorts display. Without Konno and Kurihara having any real protection/cover from either of their CM's, Australia always had a favourable 2 vs 2 in the fight for the never ending 50/50 long balls. This then constantly forced Japan on the back foot, as the two CB's had to try and deal with two very physical forwards all on their own. All night long, Japan never seemed intelligently set up to deal with the direct nature of Australia's football, and that combined with a ref, had the game become far more difficult than it needed to be.
time to really bring in Hosogai for Hasebe and Hasebe will play as Endo. I have the utmost respect for Endo and his great vision and passing, but his inconsistency and possibly age reads trouble for Japan. I thought he was really good against Jordan.
For the hundredth time, Iraq are not playing home games in Baghdad. FIFA have banned international matches in Iraq. The match was played in Doha and the attendance was a lousy 1,650.
They dont have to transfer to Europe, its their decision, if theyre comfortable in Japan and at home then they can. But if others players want to move to another( most likely better) league against better(" ") players and teams to become(" ") better players...then, well, I feel like im beating a dead horse. Obviously a coach wants to play the players who give that extra effort and push themselves. Its like a kid going to college, the thing that sets him apart from others kids with a 4.0 GPA is their extracurricular activity. In this case all of these players are super talented, everyone knows this, but you got look at the extracurricular. Not every player that goes to Europe is a failure, just as not every one is a success. Some do flop and are unable to get playing time. In that case they made a bad move, I feel thats rarely the case. So what of the other success stories where players rise to stardom in Europe? Is goes both ways. We know the names for Japan. Yes, there are guys that fail in Europe, but the point is they're trying to better themselves. Do you really think players don't evaluate their situations? They have agents, families, and friends, but of course a huge part of their life is the game and athletes want to push/challenge themselves and they have to find a club where they can succeed. Honestly I cannot see how one could argue against going to Europe, look at the state of Japanese football right now. Its on the rise! The players are improving drastically as well as the team, they're tops in Asia and are running away from their competition. People around the world are talking about the team and players. There is excitement about soccer in Japan with guys like Kagawa and Nagatomo moving to big clubs. The only reason I started following Japanese soccer was because of players in Europe. The pros for moving to Europe to play soccer, DRASTICALLY outweigh the cons. Its not just about skill, there is something called intangibles that play a part as well..players that move to Europe have the intangibles that set them apart from players in the J-league. Being strong mentally, showing you're committed, heart, passion...the list goes on. It just takes a better person and player all around to play in Europe, but looking at the results of this team I think its hard to argue against the Euro movement.
I agree, I think Zac plays him because hes the safest choice and hes a more complete/well rounded player. When Lee recovers he should replace Maeda, but for now Maeda is a good choice, we cant really expect him to score like Drogba or Rooney or something.
Sorry, but you haven't been following Japanese football very long if you think that there have been few flops in Europe. If so, you're lucky to be following it now as opposed to before the 2010 WC when there were a myriad of Japanese players who went overseas and did nothing. I don't have a problem with people following Japanese football because of exposure to players in Europe, but it irks me when people completely ignore what made these players into what they are today. The J-League. One of the reasons why I feel that many J-League players are able to go directly to Europe and play well is because the quality of the league is so high. There needs to be a proper balance between allowing players to go to Europe and keeping the league strong. Right now I do not have a problem with the club's policy of letting players go for cheap because allowing 2-3 players leave during each transfer window does not harm the league much, but if it eventually starts increasing to the point where teams are being weakened by a substantial margin then I think it will be time for the clubs to start demanding higher fees.
I'm sorry, my bad.. but this doesn't mean you have to be angry about it.. About Honda as CMF: not bad. Maybe when Endo will retire, it's a curious thing to try. Yamada in place of Honda and Keisuke in place of Endo. This could be fun.
I'm definitely for the idea of Honda as CM. Though he been the CAM, he still is capable as a deep-lying playmaker to replace Endo. It will open a free spot in the Attacking Midfield position. With the good number of young AMs and Wingers coming into maturity, it will definitely benefit Japan. Honda might not like it though, since the AMF/FW is more in the highlights. But I believe Honda should make that positional change since There is almost no one else capable of playing that CM role on the international level except for the current Endo and Hasebe. If Endo choose to retire soon and if him and Hasebe have a bad day, they'll need someone like Honda to control the Center and provide ample supply of balls to the Attackers in front.
Sorry, but youre missing the point...it's way over your head. Just because you 'flop' in Europe, it does not mean your career is over. Maybe a move to Europe actually exposes those players and their deficiencies, which in turn will improve the player. The reason you move to Europe is to improve, improve drastically and dramatically and more quickly. Not every player pans out, that's the way it is. Some bounce back, others don't, it all depends on the person/player. Nobody has forgotten the J-League..how could you say that? That is where they came from, thats part of their journey as players, it is a good league and it develops good players. But, its not Europe, no matter how hard you want it to be the EPL, Bundasliga, SeriaA, etc...ITS NOT! Not yet at least. The letting players go for cheap and the status of the league, thats whole different subject, as players move and make names for themselves the fees get higher for new players and more and more players get recognized in that league. It may one day end up like the MLB where they pay premium prices for Japanese talent..its a process. The league is surviving at the least, I cant speak in depth about it, I dont live in Japan. Some positives is the league produces great talent and does make money from its players and therefore more exposure. I know the feeling where your best players in a league leave for Europe, living in the US, we have the MLS..all the best young talent leaves. Its more of a development league than a real league, ive come to accept that, becuase who in there right mind would want to stay in such a lousy league. The J-leauge is better than the MLS, but its much the same. Its a league that's half competitive and half developmental. There are few leagues that can actually sustain being a top dog league and command big names, and those leagues are all in Europe. That's just the reality of the situation, no use crying over it.
They dont have to have a player that is Endo..Japan can put anyone in there and have a new identity. It wont be hard to find a player thats good to fill in, but it will be impossible to find one that is Endo. Sooner people let that go, the better. Honda is not that player, he plays near the goal, not from the back providing balls, he likes to score goals and attack. He could do it, but Japan has someone somewhere who actually plays that position so let that guy fill the spot. The pair of Hasebe and Hosogai, I feel could be a very strong combination. Both are hard workers and good defensively. Provide it to Kagawa and Honda and theyll do the rest. Endo gets those good balls in, but long balls arent exactly Japans strength. Japans strength is build up play, give and goes, one touch passing, not exactly something Endo excels at anymore. Im a big fan of Hosogai's play, I think he needs to be in the lineup..he was great in Germany this past year. Light years ahead of Hasebe, and his train wreck in Wolfsburg . Who knows though..
That's exactly why players need to stay in Japan instead of going to Europe. Do you really think that the quality of the league is increasing because of players going to Europe? It's not. Just because the NT is doing well does not mean that J-League clubs are getting stronger. If better players leave then the overall quality of the league decreases and as a result worse players are given playing time. Like I said, it's all about balance. It's stupid to encourage all players to go to Europe because in the end it ends up harming the league and that is the last thing we need to happen. The J-League is the life and blood of football in Japan and should be the number one priority.
Samurai, the J League will eventually get better anyway. It's not like EVERY player goes to Europe. I don't remember more than 3-4 players leaving the J League in the summer windows. But it's still another level and it's obvious that many players wants to challenge themself against the very best in the world. Because yes, if you don't have much money to spend, the league will never (note: never) get to Bundesliga-La Liga-Serie A-EPL level anyway, as those league have many players from mixed countries. You should probably blame the way football is so economically dependent. Also, sometimes we could've spent way better those foreign slots...
I disagree, I do not feel that the league is getting any better. Aside from the terrible ACL results in recent times everything seems to be decreasing in quality. Foreigners are getting worse along with the overall quality of play. People are quick to point to the fact that more players are playing in Europe as the reason for why the NT has been performing recently, but the truth is that it's miniscule compared to another factor. Player selection. Zac is the first coach in a long time to actually pick the best players in Japan. Seems like a simple thing right, but unless you're new to the NT scene then you know that for countless years the NT was filled with coaches who picked garbage players like Yano to represent Japan. 3 years ago on this forum, before the selection for the 2010 WC, members here begged and pleaded Okada to choose Kagawa and when the time came we were disappointed, but not surprised at all.
Believe it or not guys, in a J1 with lets say 270 players that usually get decent playing time, to take out 20 of the best/better ones and get them to play elsewhere (which has basically happened in the last 2 years since WC2010) undoubtedly lowers the quality of the league. I would prefer at a certain stage to have the scenario where the number of players leaving equals the number of Japanese abroad returning. I was happy before the start of this season cause Makino, Inoha, Abe and Yano all came back which offset somewhat the departure of 3 Japanese.
So this is about the J-league, and not the players that leave and flop? I think the quality of the league will slowly grow as the young kids that follow the players that go to Europe start to want to emulate players like Kagawa, Honda, Okazaki, Uchida, Nagatomo and the rest..they will grow up and they will play in the J-league. The talent pool will grow, some will stay, some will go. It is better that guys go to Europe for the JNT for sure, maybe not the league directly, but indirectly its arguable. I see what you're saying, you want the talent there, but without them leaving and growing as players. Maybe Shinji Kagawa at Cerezo does not become a legend, Honda does become Kaiser Kosuke..in the J-leauge they're just another nice player in an ok league. But if you apply that trade in Europe you're considered the real deal. The move to Europe seems essential to become a high quality player. I think the point of the J-league is to set up players to succeed. Whether its there or a transfer to another club. I do think the players moving to Europe is a good thing for the league, if they didn't nobody outside of Japan would know anything about the J-league and JNT. Again it puts a spotlight on the J-league when players succeed in Europe, I don't see how that can be bad. Sure one player leaves, but one player does not make a team or a league. Neither do a handful of players, the league goes on, good players go and bad players go to Europe. The J-league is getting better with transfers and fees, not giving away players for so cheap..its a young league and they've got to learn the business better. I think one thing they should do is extend the season and play more games like in the EPL. Thats how player get better, playing more soccer, also taking the ACL more serious would be nice. They do a good job of importing their own talent from Brazil and Australia and even Korea. I'd say the J-league is immensely successful, but if you want to compare it to a Europe league that makes its talent and keeps it, you're always going to be disappointed..give it time.
Wow. So much Endo hate going on here. He wasn't that shitty. You have to remember that one guy's fault isn't directly linked with himself but their teammates too. They can't do their part if their teammates don't do their part.