2011 worlds best leagues

Discussion in 'Statistics and Analysis' started by la saeta rubia, Jul 23, 2011.

  1. Cicjose

    Cicjose New Member

    Aug 13, 2011
    Club:
    FC Schalke 04
  2. BM-Hattrick

    BM-Hattrick Member

    Apr 25, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    This whole economy/gdp thing was started by your fellow brazilian danfla as he wanted to show us how our european leagues have no chance vs brazil with it´s "mighty" gdp. And I think it wasn´t a very clever move to mention it when your gdp per capita is more or less the same as Azerbaijan.
     
  3. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Dan Fla is not my fellow Brasilian but my fellow South American.By the way whats wrong with saying English and German weather is terrible.
    Allowing for different prices gdp ppp 2010 wikipedia
    Azerbaijan 9138
    Brasil 11289
    Argentina 15854
    Obviosuly 20% or 40% here or there is of no consequnce in a continent heading further south every day.
    By the way the Azerbaijan figure grew 41% so maybe the weather and women there arent the nicest either
     
  4. BM-Hattrick

    BM-Hattrick Member

    Apr 25, 2008
    Germany
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Are you drunk?
     
  5. smj77

    smj77 New Member

    Jun 28, 2011
    Club:
    Hamburger SV
    Fot the sake of him we should hope so.
     
  6. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DanFlan brought up the Brazil economy being bigger than France and England (correct in 1 of the 3 main measurements)

    But not only have you showed your racist side, but also your sexist side. Good work.
     
  7. DanFla

    DanFla Member

    Apr 18, 2010
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    and why GDP per capita is important? but this doesnt matter what i said is that brazilian economy is growing fast, faster than europeans that are recovering for the crisis and of course this has a important impact in many sectors including soccer industry.

    About the GDP official numbers, 2011 is not over yet and since Brazil only passed France and UK during this year, the official numbers will only be revealed in 2012.
     
  8. smj77

    smj77 New Member

    Jun 28, 2011
    Club:
    Hamburger SV
    Can't believe I'm even answering to this. Brasil still has a lot of investments in infrastructure to do, that most eruopean countries, and for sure those that you refer to, have done for ages. In addition growth rates should always be classified by the basis of economy it relates to.

    And besides: This fact-fighting is ill.
     
  9. DanFla

    DanFla Member

    Apr 18, 2010
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Im sorry to tell you but GDP per capita has no importance at all...take the GDP and split by the population is meaningless
     
  10. DanFla

    DanFla Member

    Apr 18, 2010
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    infrastructure? plz stay on the topic, besides 400 years of exploration might explain why the gap of infrastructure between the continents, but i cant see the importance of this to discuss this topic.
     
  11. smj77

    smj77 New Member

    Jun 28, 2011
    Club:
    Hamburger SV
    :rolleyes:

    That's fine with me. Sorry I started with this good and bad and wealthy and not and developping and in decline talk. My bad.

    Let's talk about beauty of girls then....
     
  12. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    No we just can have fun without being drunk probably impossible to comprehend for some
     
  13. Hadzjia Sven Susic

    Aug 7, 2011
    Club:
    Cardiff City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    I don't understand the argument here...

    7 out of the top 10 national football clubs are from Europe according to FIFA, one of the most recognized institutions in the world if not the #1 when it comes to rankings.

    How can you even come close to say that Argentina who clocks in at number 10 in the world rankings has the number 2 league...

    Where is the quality?

    Last time I checked Tevez is still in Europe, Aguero is in Europe, Messi and Higuain are in Europe.

    Do you know how many player from the Argentinian national team play in the Argentine league?

    Guess.

    1.

    1 player who is soon to be on the wrong side of 30. When a national team has a strong league, the majority of players play for the local league.

    Where do national players for England play? England

    How about Spain? Spain.

    Italy? Italy.

    Argentina? Europe.

    Brazil? Europe.

    Uruguay? Europe.

    These statistics produced should be marked as completely biased to it's misinformation. If Argentina had such a strong league you would think that it's best players who represent it at the highest level of soccer would play in it's native league.
     
  14. BlueLondoner

    BlueLondoner New Member

    Aug 15, 2011
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    I personally think that the 5 big leagues in Europe - EPL, La Liga, Serie A, Bundesliga, and Ligue 1 - all are much more competitive then they are usually stated to be.

    In the EPL, while teams such as Fulham, Aston Villa, Newcastle, Stoke, and Sunderland, are not title challengers, they are certainly competitive teams, capable of getting a result while playing the big boys. This was shown this weekend, with Newcastle, Stoke, and Sunderland all getting a deserved point against Arsenal, Chelsea, and Liverpool. Even West Brom gave Manchester United a good game.

    In the Bundesliga, although Dortmund and Munich are as of now the leading contenders, teams such as Wolfsburg, Werder Bremen, Schalke, can all dream of the title, and most of the rest of the league can have realistic hopes of a Europa League spot.

    It is a similar story in Serie A, where the Genoa's and Parma's of the league can give both Milan clubs a good game, and where a team like Udinese can finish in a champions league place without spending nearly the amount of money as is thrown about by the likes of Roma, Milan, Inter, and Juve.
    La Liga is a bit more unbalanced, but yet Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Athletic Bilbao, Villareal, Sevilla, even Malaga, are all competitive sides who do well in Europe.

    In Ligue 1, Lyon, Marseille, Lille and PSG are probably not quite up to the quality of the leading teams in the other big four leagues, yet they are still good teams, capable of having a good run in the Champions League. and yet, they are regularly held to a point, or even a loss, against teams such as Montpellier and Rennes. Out of the big clubs, only Lyon has two wins after the start of the season there.

    So thats my eurocentric bit - the best European leagues all have much more depth then they get credit for. However, I think Europeans constantly underestimate at least one other league, the Brazilian. Can you honestly say that the big teams in Brazil such as Flamengo, Santos, Corinthians and Internacional, with strong fan support and now, increasing finances as evidenced by the Tevez bid by Corinthians, can you say they would not at least be competitive in the big European leagues? Players such as Neymar at Santos, Ganso, Ronaldinho, they are world class. One telling result was that of the Audi Cup - Internacional took the Barcelona B squad to penalties, and beat a close to full strength AC Milan on penalties. Especially taking into account how unpredictable the Brazilian league is, I think that is a telling case for its strength.

    I don't watch enough of the Argentinian league to comment, yet I think the same holds true for Boca, River, and Velez. They would be able to compete in Europe, and since they certainly have trouble in Argentina, i think that points to the strength of the league.

    So in my opinion, those 7 leagues are the top tier. This is followed by the secondary tier, with leagues like Russia, Ukraine, Turkey, Portugal, Scotland, Holland, Denmark, where there are three or four sides of very good quality, capable of good Europa, and even occasionally Champions League runs (Shaktar Donetsk). but then the talent drops of remarkably. From the Americas I would add in Mexico, Uruguay, and possibly Paraguay, to this group. Russia could be in the first tier, but i'll admit that my knowledge of their league is slim at best - I like Vagner Love, but thats about it.

    The problem with the recognition given to the MLS is that their top sides are not quite at the quality of the second tier - I would say that LA Galaxy, RSL, NY Redbulls, and Seattle can approach that quality, as the Red Bulls winning of the Emirates showed, but they can not keep that quality up season long. However, the rest of the sides in the MLS are in my opinion definitely the equal of the weaker teams in the second tier, maybe even better. I would give Houston an even chance of beating a team such as Hearts (Scotland) for example. Yet the same is true of the teams in leagues such as the English Championship, and the Swiss league. Personally I would rate the leagues somewhere along these lines:

    1. EPL
    2. La Liga
    3. Bundesliga
    4. Serie A
    5. Ligue 1
    6. Brazilian Serie A
    7. Argentine Primera
    8. Russian League
    9. Portuguese League (on the strength of Porto)
    10. Dutch Eredivisie
    11. Mexican League
    12. Turkish League
    13. Ukrainian League
    14. Danish League
    15. Scottish League
    16. Uruguayan League
    17. Paraguayan League
    18. English Championship
    19. Swiss League

    after I think the leagues become unrankable - the leagues of nations such as Austria and Norway, I simply don't have the knowledge to rank, while the leagues of nations such as Ecuador, Colombia, South Africa, Japan, Australia, South Korea, MLS, are too weak to have a meaningful ranking.
     
  15. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Suffice to say these arguments have all been trashed out in the rest of the thread read them.I undrstand someone new like you thinks futbol can be bought and only names matter but you are wrong and will be proven to be wrong.Maybe investments in productive industry for real people would bring those more contentment and less riots.Tradition matters in futbol and Teves may indeed be in Manchester for a few months more but it wont be long till the little boludo returns.
    Remember trophies are what counts.and for all your oil money you have none.
     
  16. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
     
  17. Hadzjia Sven Susic

    Aug 7, 2011
    Club:
    Cardiff City FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bosnia-Herzegovina
    Apparently you don't understand how football works.

    Let me explain this to you so even you can understand.

    National teams pick the BEST players from the ENTIRE country.

    If the majority of players on the national team are playing elsewhere then your league is NOT good.

    Your national team may be good but your league is crap.

    Period.

    You didn't hash anything out you are throwing some bogus opinions about how your game is ''beautiful to the eye'', this isn't ballet big boy. This is futbal, calcio, soccer, nogomet.

    Just because it looks fluid to your eye does not make it good.

    Last time I checked the Russian and Middle Eastern leagues offer the best money. So if this was about money you would see players playing in Russia or the middle east. However, this is not about money, this is about being the best.

    Bayern, United, City, Arsenal, AC Milan, Inter, Lazio, Napoli, Juventus, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Ajax, Partizan, Liverpool, Chelsea, Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Paris St. Germain, Lyon, Borussia Dortmund...

    I could go on and on, how many of these teams are known around the world? Pretty much all of them. Why? Because they are on top of the football world.

    River Plate .... That's, it I can't name another Argentinian club.

    One club. That's all you have and you are claiming that Argentina and South America have the best leagues?

    Please stop making a fool of yourself.

    It is obviously you who is 'new' to football.

    Why do you think the best players in the world such as Ronaldo, Messi, Tevez, Aguero go and play in Europe? It's not about money, money is found lying around for these people, it's about being the best. You can only do that in one place, Europe.

    Leave your biases at the door.
     
  18. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Pobrecito you shouldnt speak so muchit only shows what a.boludo you are
     
  19. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Brazil is much better than the other Conmebol leagues, and then Argentina is a big step above the rest of Conmebol. Mexico, Uruguay, Chile and Colombia are very close to each other.

    Brazil is top 6 in the world, Argentina is top 10 in the World IMO.

    So the Rank of just the American leagues should be:

    1. Brazil

    2. Argentina

    3. Mexico
    4. Chile
    5. Uruguay
    6. Colombia
    7. Paraguay

    8. Ecuador
    9. Peru


    10. Venezuela, Costa Rica, Honduras and MLS would be somewhere in here or about the same as Venezuela. IMO

    14. Bolivia

    15+ The rest of Concacaf leagues.
     
  20. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would disagree that Mexico is significantly below Argentina. When Mexico were sending their top teams to the Liberdatores, they would regularly do as well as or better than the Argentinian teams. They haven't done as well lately, but that's because they've been sending their top four teams to the CONCACAF CL instead.
     
  21. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
     
  22. chapka

    chapka Member+

    May 18, 2004
    Haverford, PA
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trophies won 50 years ago don't count. In the last 10 years of the Liberdatores, it's been:

    Brazil 4 titles, 11 final appearances, 8 different teams in the finals
    Argentina 2 titles, 4 final appearances, 2 different teams in the finals

    The last time Argentina won a club "world" championship (the old Intercontinental Cup) was in 2003. Under the new Club World Cup format, Brazil have won three times, more than any other league.

    Also, Brazilian teams have won just as many world club championships as Argentinians. Argentina has 9 Intercontinental Cups and no Club World Cups; Brazil has 6 Intercontinental Cups and 3 Club World Cups.

    Argentina doesn't have the results to show right now, no matter how dominant they may have been in the 1960s and 1970s.
     
  23. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    If you want to narrow down the argument to ten years get your facts right
    Copa Libertadores
    Brasil 4 titles Argentina 3 not two
    Copa Sudamericana/Mercosur
    Argentina six titles Brasil 1
    titles won anytime matter but even if you want to talk about the last ten years Argentina has 10 South American titles to Brasils 5 two to one.
     
  24. DanFla

    DanFla Member

    Apr 18, 2010
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Brazilians clubs dont care for Mercosul or Copa Sudamericana, they always plays with second squad.
     
  25. la saeta rubia

    Aug 1, 2010
    Argentina/España
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    The way Internacional celebrated their win in 2008 seemed to suggest otherwise.
     

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