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Discussion in 'Women's College' started by bigbounce1, Jul 23, 2011.
It's Megan Ramey, not Ramsey.
OMG I add an S............wow what a huge mistake!
since you know she's good enough to apply for the head coaching position, you might want to get her name right...i hope you're not one of her references...
worst come back ever.....disappointed!
read this one . . . it didn't make any sense in it's own thread either, but if you want someone who's gonna put some time in . . .
OK, does anyone know much about Katie Shields (AC @ Arizona State, Harvard & most recently Northwestern)? Played GK @ Harvard? She resigned at NU about the same time Cornell reposted.
Tony D had her in with the Breakers in '09, and Harvard did well while she was there. I'd want to know if she got cleared out by the school before they hired Moynihan or whether he had his own guy/girl or whether she didn't want to work for him (or whether he got to know her and decided to make a change). Without that info . . .
Sounds like a semi-risky hire, but defensible for Cornell? You'd think they could do better, but maybe she's an up and comer - and she's got Ivy ties on her resume (priceless).
I am fairly sure that Shields stayed at NU when Erickson-Foster & Ekeberg were let go. KS handled holding the 2012 recruiting class together until MM was hired. To be sure I think you're correct, a kind of risky hire if she's in the mix - the sort that CU just went through recently w/ DL. Someone entered the picture late and caused CU to repost the HC job. Maybe another ex-Harvard player turned coach... K. Gudeman??? This CU deal is dragging on & on...
Hey Keren? (from Carleton?) would be a great hire if they can get her. There'll be all kinds of moaning about D3, but she'll do well at CU.
Why is the speculation that the best Cornell can do is a young assistant or a D3 coach? Recruiting academically sound students is ONE aspect of coaching and certainly not the sole domain of the Ivy League or even D3 (where there are NO academic qualification standards required by the NCAA).
It seems CU would want to break away from the pattern (UNLV as well) and attract a currently successful Division I coach if at all possible and then work in reverse if all the qualities couldn't be met. The Ivy League must entice someone if the money squares up, I would think.
As for UNLV it would seem similarly. There's got to be a good hire out there with the experience necessary to use the name recognition and location to get them over the hump. Some questions about finances and conference probably but why the re-tread firees (is that even a word?) or young people looking for experience only to bolt once that experience is gained?
I know less than a little about either situation so I'm just asking out of curiosity.
Let's be clear on one thing... the Ivy League is about academics, first, middle & last - not simply "academically sound students" - that works in the ACC, PAC 12, Big XII, Big Ten, SEC etc. - not the Ivy. The Ivy League's AI scale makes recruiting there very tough. Moreover, the D-III coach speculation here is only about D-III schools that are tough to gain admittance to (NESCAC) so recruiting top-tier students are essential. Cornell likely has looked at some other D-1 coaches but was not satisfied apparently, so they kept looking. Most D-1 coaches only have to recruit "academically sound students"... those kids do not typically gain admission to schools in the Ivy League.
As for UNLV, this job is likely going to go to a fairly green HC as well. Not a lot of extra cash to throw at a women's soccer program. The UNLV facilities are at the low end of the MWC & the Lion's share of athletic funding goes to men's hoops. But one thing is true - the next UNLV coach (just like all the prior ones) will not have to wreslte with his/her admissions department on every single women's soccer recruit - like the Ivy coaches (in any sport) get to do.
I think we all know that the Ivy League is exceptionally focussed academically and UNLV is better known for hoops. That doesn't answer the question though. The point is that a currently successful D1 coach, if out there and interested, might have to raise the bar (and that is only in some situations) in recruiting exceptional students but would be far more prepared for the immediate task than a D3 coach or assistant. So is there a reason that CU or UNLV seem to be having difficulty attracting an experienced and successful D1 head coach?
A D3 coach would have to raise the bar in many areas (do not waste our time with the "some D3s could compete" argument...NO chance...not day to day and not with the top 150 RPI). They would be, or should be, nationally recruiting, scheduling for ever changing success, year round training at a higher level, and identifying and nurturing on the field talent, managing parents/alumni, just for a start.
I'm not saying D3 coaches are bad or D1 coaches are good-we all know a lot of examples of people who have gone back and forth. Just that the jobs are different and have different demands. The point is that while a very strong academic school, CU is a Division I school and has chosen to compete, on the field, with a higher standard athlete. UNLV and Upstate have done the same and with the addition of athletic scholarships which raises that bar further.
An assistant would be making an even bigger jump in some instances even if they've seen it all in their, let's say, 2-5 years of experience. Real final decisions in every single area for the first time and the ability to navigate running every single aspect of a program is far different from kicking butt at assigned duties no matter the level or potential.
Would we be accepting of a JC professor looking to jump to Cornell? Or a D3 coach taking over the Runnin Rebels?
So my question (I am not looking for a debate, just an answer)is simply WHY cannot CU or UNLV attract that experienced coach if that is even the case? And, with all due respect, if you don't know, let it go because I can guess, speculate and stir the rumor pot. JUST looking to understand out of curiosity.
I know at least one person was contacted by CU HR a week or so ago to apply that had missed the initial deadline so they obviously did not like something about the first round.
As far as successful D-1 coaches go, the Cornell WSOC job is tough because on the field sucess has been nil for more than a decade. Cornell last won the Ivy in women's soccer in 1991. Further, if you are a sucessful D-1 coach your likely looking to move to a large power conference (ACC, Big XII, Big Ten, Big East or SEC) if your not in one. You're likely not looking to move to the Ivy League or Mountain West conferences.
The coach that Cornell hired in 2000, Berhane Andeberhan, was the sucessful former coach HC @ Stanford & that hire did not work at CU. He said the Ivy recruiting was far harder than he thought going into the job. So your likely to get re-tread D-1 coaches (fired from somewhere else) & active ACs apply for head jobs at both CU & UNLV. I suspect any job that opened up the MWC would get the same. Even mighty Harvard has big hurdles recruiting coaches due to the Ivy Leagues academic rigor. Say you're a sucessful HC at a D-1 school like... U Memphis (& Brooks is successful BTW), why would you leave that situation for either of these positions? I guess the point I'm trying to make is that recruiting in the Ivy is the road to success - far more than other D-1 schools because the pool of Ivy recruits is very, very shallow. Many HCs can coach up good talent on the field, but few can recruit the top 10% of players academically to play soccer at a school with no athletic scholarships - where it gets really cold in the winter. This is why D-III recruiting experience at places like Williams, Amherst, Bowdoin, Wesleyan & Middlebury are very attractive to the Ivies, almost to the point of incest in some sports.
Nevertheless, you'd think someone other than a re-tread D-I coach would be interested in the Cornell job. But given this search thus far - recruitment of a quality HC has been a tough task to date. BTW, many professor at Cornell come from D-III places like U Chicago, RIT, Cal Tech and other Ivies so I don't think the junior college analogy was apt. The bottom line is the HC job at Cornell or any Ivy looks a lot more like a D-III coaching gig since there are no scholarships than it does D-I job at any state U.
I appreciate the straight answer with a little more history and background info (on CU anyway). The point of comparing a JC prof was in that the background in ATHLETICS would not be on a par with a successful D1 coach. The tremendous prof at Tufts, Kenyon, Amherst, etc is far more equitable to me than a coach making the same move. Although I still understand the aspect of the recruiting there is so much more to the job of a Division I coach than recruiting. In the end it sounds like they are not looking to pay to get someone who can do both ends, perhaps.
having been a D3 coach and a D1 top 20 coach, i would have to say that coaching at the ivies is closer to coaching high end academic D3 than coaching D1...it's just that you have to compete with other d1 programs...
there are quite a few D3 programs that can compete with mid-level D1 teams....no question...it's not the division that is important it is the ability to recruit without scholarships that is important...
Shields accepted an assistant position at Saint Louis.
Now that AD Noel is back on campus after the NCAA wrestling championships, expect Cornell to make an announcement this week. But I've been wrong about timing before...
USC Upstate will be interviewing this week. They will be hiring a female coach for all of those out there that don t think there are enough female head coaches. Any leads on who UNLV is looking at? I guess this wraps up this years openings and hires.
Oh . . . there'll be more . . .
No, I think 2011 is over with in the hot seat category, else we would still be doing the 2004 hot seat thread.
That's what we need! A new thread! and MORE faux-hawk!
So who is on campus at Upstate?
upstate - who knows, probably asking who would do the job for 25K
Cornell - I think were see some movement this week or next.
UNLV - 2nd phase of going through the resumes so I've been told. Honestly didn't think they would have many resumes to go through.
Hopefully Cornell announces soon. This is taking forever.
Whoever gets that job is going to have work cut out for them. But you can still get good players at an Ivy, not just smart students who can sort of kick a ball in between classes. It's not unusual for men's teams in the Ivies to be ranked in the top 25.
Look at Harvard (which I know is different than Cornell...). They just committed Midge Purse. She is an amazing player and she was being courted by many ACC and top 25 programs. Instead she is going to Harvard which is a massive recruit for them and she will terrorize the Ivies. And Harvard also has a 2013 that spurred an offer from Stanford. Watch out for the Crimson as they could be a legit power with kids like that.
I wonder what kind of impact this will leave. Let's face it, women's soccer players are typically white kids from affluent suburban areas. Exactly the types of kids that will be drawn to Ivy programs. So an Ivy can get good players who want to get a good sound, academic degree. I wonder how long a school like Florida State can keep getting strong recruits without the academic pedigree behind it (probably a big reason Krikorian has to recruit abroad).
Lastly, Ivies are known for providing very good financial aid packages. The issue is that with early recruiting the way it is, many kids have to make commitment decisions before they can wait to hear on a financial aid package or admissions read from an Ivy.
My point is that a coach who is willing work on the recruiting trail can find not just good students admissible to an Ivy on a good financial aid package, but that they can be very good players as well. It is going to require someone with a lot of energy and work ethic to get it done, but it can be done.