2010 FIFA World Cup Referee Appointments

Discussion in 'World Cup 2010: Refereeing' started by code1390, Jun 5, 2010.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Unless there is an unexpected retirement, it's going to be quite a race between him and Busacca for that match.

    And I imagine the 2012 UCL final is a Kassai v. Stark v. Undiano Mallenco v. Benquerenca battle, as De Bleeckere should be a lock for UCL 2011 in his last year on the list (barring a major error).
     
  2. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I cannot argue that there isn't inconsistency between how Irmatov handled the two situations, but I think the real error was not giving Di Maria a YC. Otherwise, whether Muller deserved a caution or not should be evaluated on its own merits and the fact that he was carrying a yellow card from another match should not be part of the criteria used IMO.
     
  3. Cirdan

    Cirdan Member

    Sep 12, 2007
    Jena (Germany)
    According to the rules of the game, a yellow is to be awarded if the player handles the ball in order to prevent an opponent from gaining possession or developing an attack.

    Müller "caught" the ball from a deflection of Messi, he did not intercept a pass and the ball was not going anywhere near an Argentine player. The rule is a judgement call, but if this was preventing from gaining possession/developing attack, you can simplify the whole thing and say every single hand ball is a yellow card. For me, this one was not even a harsh decision, it was a mistake.
     
  4. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

    May 26, 2009
    Minnesota
    It also is given for handling in an attempt to score a goal.

    What Mueller did would be a pretty big stretch of "attempting to score a goal." I think the spirit of that application would be more specifically applied to things like Maradona's Hand of God or the Hand of Henry incidents.

    I want to make it clear, I don't have a problem with a YC for both of these incidents, or no card for either. I also don't have a problem with a YC for Di Maria and no card for Mueller. I think the consistency issue pops up because if Di Maria's offense was not a caution, I have a hard time understanding how Mueller's was (on this given day).

    Sorry, MassRef, for taking the discussion off topic...;)
     
  5. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I don't think that is correct.

    Law 12 lists the following as the offenses that merit a yellow card:

    Deliberately handling the ball is considered "unsporting behavior".

    Additionally, under Law 12
    Basically, no where in the rules is a restriction that speaks to what you have mentioned. Indeed, my understanding of the rules is that a yellow card is justified whenever you have a deliberate handball, unless the deliberate handball is preventing a goal or goal scoring opportunity, in which case a red card is to be issued. Of course, you can always surmise that a player that uses his hand has down so either to prevent an opponent from gaining possession or develop an attack, or help himself in gaining possession and develop an attack. But of course you do have situations such as the one in Serbia-Germany where a handball even in the penalty box seems inexplicable and merely the result of a player being foolish.;)
     
  6. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Deliberately handling the ball is a foul, not unsporting behavior.

    Cautions for USB are listed on page 115 of the 2010/11 LOTG.

    "• handles the ball to prevent an opponent gaining possession or developing
    an attack (other than the goalkeeper within his own penalty area)
    • handles the ball in an attempt to score a goal (irrespective of whether or
    not the attempt is successful)."
     
  7. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, he is correct.

    This is incorrect. As you proved with your next quote, deliberate handling is simply a foul. You didn't show anything that means deliberate handling is unsporting behavior.

    Again, this is wrong. See page 111 and then page 115, bullets #4 and #5 here:

    http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/generic/81/42/36/lawsofthegame_2010_11_e.pdf
     
  8. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I wasn't aware of the criteria you mention, although having read the page you refer to it seems to me that those are listed as examples of unsporting behavior. Not that it makes all that much of a difference, since preventing an opponent from gaining possession appears very broad in scope regardless.
     
  9. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    I reviewed the rules/pages that you have mentioned. On balance, it seems I stand corrected, even though there is wiggle room in the rules you cite.
     
  10. mkoenig_1

    mkoenig_1 New Member

    Feb 1, 2005
    Connecticut
    What wiggle room?

    The cited page states that the following actions MUST be sanctioned as Unsporting Behavior if the referee observes them. This is a duty of the referee.

    If by wiggle room you are referring to the often cited "in the opinion of the referee" clause, I suppose you have a point, but this is no different than any other sport now is it?
     
  11. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    The wiggle room arises because USB is not explicitly restricted to the situations that are mentioned. Instead, those situations appear to be examples of when YC is mandated. In other words, an argument can be made that there are other situations that a referee may consider USB even for handling, which he can in turn penalize with a YC, even if the situations mentioned are ones where his authority not to show a yellow card is restricted and he is required to do so.

    On balance, however, I noted that I stand corrected in my understanding of the situations which would warrant a yellow card for USB/handling. Which then brings me to the point I mentioned in another thread:

    The import of these rules (which I was not aware of previously), is to make Irmatov's decision not to hand a yellow card to Di Maria appear to be entirely by the book. He was certainly not required to show Di Maria a YC. There is simply no way that you can argue that Di Maria was attempting to score with his hands. Nor was that handball, which was to facilitate an attack being developed by Argentina, one that you can paint as attempting to prevent an opponent from gaining possession or developing an attack. But when it comes to the Mueller handball, which occurred in front of Germany's box, the argument that he was trying to prevent an attack from developing or deny the opponent possession, appears more applicable, even if some don't feel that is what was happening.
     
  12. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Moderator
    Staff Member

    May 25, 2006
    The all belongs in the GER-ARG thread, but you addressed it here.

    Where is this attack coming from?
    Who is Mueller denying possession?

    When Messi loses possession, there isn't another Argentine near the play.

    [​IMG]

    It was a poor call and a perfect example of why suspensions for multiple yellows is asinine.
     
  13. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Webb for the Final.

    Archundia for the 3/4 Playoff.

    Confirmed on FIFA's site.
     
  14. Dutchref

    Dutchref New Member

    Jun 24, 2010
    In the shadow of the news of the appointment some sad news: Roberto Rosetti has retired from refereeing. Confirmed by the Italian soccer federation.
     
  15. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    In retorspect, it looks as though Archundia and crew were the biggest Uruguay fans in the world this week. Presumably, based on ploicy at this Cup, Archundia and Webb were the two referees for the final two matches. Archundia was going to follow Uruguay and Webb the Dutch. That SF probably determined the appointments. Maybe just bad luck for Archundia.
     
  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The speculation cuts both ways, though... take the other semifinal:

    1) Did Spain advancing hurt Archundia, because of the language issue?
    2) Would FIFA have put an English referee on a Germany Final in this tournament, given the elimination?

    So while you can say Archundia was rooting for Uruguay. You could also surmise that Webb was rooting for Spain.

    I guess Archundia does the Spain v. Uruguay Final, because language is then not an issue. But who would have done a Netherlands v. Germany match? That's a tougher call.

    It's possible this was the only permutation of the four possibilities that could give Webb the game. It's likely we'll never know the answer, though.
     
  17. vetshak

    vetshak Member+

    May 26, 2009
    Minnesota
    The Pope? (Oh wait, he'd be biased)

    Arnold Schwarzenegger?

    Desmond Tutu?

    Would it have mattered? A bigger question would be what cleaning agency would they have hired to clean the dried blood off the pitch afterward... :D
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Rodriguez is the 4th on 3/4 playoff.

    Nishimura is the 4th on the Final.

    That means Damon, Ruiz, Pozo were kept around to do no further matches.

    Ruiz and Pozo hanging out makes sense. As for Damon... well, he literally can't be "sent home," but I'd also argue he would have been the 4th on the 3/4 playoff if the assignments had been reversed. Giving him that assignment is one thing. But FIFA needs to have the strongest possible replacement on as a 4th for the Final in case something goes wrong.
     

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