2009 USL attendance thread

Discussion in 'United Soccer Leagues' started by The Marquis, Apr 13, 2009.

  1. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's a disclaimer I take pains to insert now whenever possible in the post-Ziegler world.

    No offense taken. Just remember the big disclaimer that's out there.

    Austin did great. Hope they keep it up. Miami has always been a problem, for a variety of reasons.

    If you have somebody else who keeps track of things very closely, that's great. I won't worry so much about it, then, and y'all can do what you do.
     
  2. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Kenn when it comes to attendance, your research is invaluable. You should make the disclaimer your sig though and just put "see sig" copy/paste for directing those who you think need to see it. :)

    As for Austin, I think we're looking at another Charleston level club. So that's quite good.
     
  3. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I wouldn't say that just yet. I would be happy if we can manage 3600 (Charleston in '05 and '06), but there's still a long way to go before I'll make any predictions as to where we'll end up. Way too many factors at work to guess (100+ summer temps, mid-week games, getting into a cycle of weekend rain (which looks like isn't happening yet, but it's happened before), just to name a few).
     
  4. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that venue viable long-term, though? I mean, Charleston wasn't really Charleston until they built Blackbaud, right?

    I just think if USL is going to really take a big step forward, high school and college stadiums (or "whatever stadium is around") need to be the exception rather than the rule.
     
  5. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think a move for Austin to House Park will do the trick. That's supposed to happen next year right VC?
     
  6. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was it a big boon to the Lone Stars?
     
  7. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not even close to the same situation. FIguring that they drew nearly 5,000 for the match... moving that match to House Park I have little doubt would have drawn more, but even more importantly RETAINED more as it looks to be a superior stadium in a superior location.
     
  8. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's definitely not viable long-term. It's one of my "I'll worry about it later" worries. The team is saying that they have plans/goals to get a stadium built. And are working toward it, but there's no details of any kind. Not that I expect any.

    When I'm realistic with myself, I expect any stadium to get built in the suburbs. Austin politics just won't let anything happen in town. See below for one fantasy.

    Moving to House will happen next season. And will do wonders for the intimacy, if fans can sort out the parking situation. Parking is at a serious premium at House. The nearby Austin Community College campus is building a parking garage within sight of House, but I have no clue if the Aztex will be able to take advantage of that.

    What House WON'T do is wonders for the game quality. It's still fieldturf. I've heard comments that the quality of FieldTurf at Nelson is not as good as the one at Round Rock's Dragon, where the U23 team played last year, and the same company did Nelson and House. Plus, there's no track. Yeah, that's one of the things that improves the intimacy. But it's still just HS football width, so we're talking San Jose MLS Year 1 here. With a worse press box and amenities.

    So, will Austin be Austin when we move to House like Charleston was Charleston after they built Blackbaud? Maybe. Potentially. But most likely not.

    Now in one of my dream scenarios, the Aztex work a deal with the Austin ISD and the City of Austin, demolish and rebuild the east stands and add in some north stands. There's room, I think. Barely. Definitely, if they do a little creative architecture around the rec center that's behind the stands.:)
     
  9. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    To be fair, it was their inaugural home match. You can't usually make long-term projections based on that. If they're still getting 4800 a game in August at what I'm told is a stopgap stadium situation, then, yeah, a better stadium situation should help matters, all things being equal. Which they rarely are. But good luck to them.
     
  10. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Until the AISD kicked out the Lone Stars, they only played at House. They were working toward 1,000 attendance (not avg, but single game) when they got booted. Different time, different organization, so there's no way to really compare or measure.

    But a lot of people know about House and love it and so there's a real positive vibe about playing there. My wild-ass guess is that moving there might counteract any natural 1st to 2nd season slump.

    What will be more important is to crack the media and "UT Sports Only" mindset in town. Not saying that the Aztex need to knock it down. That'll never happen. Just find a crack in it and settle in. Like moss or lichen.

    ...and I want to apologies for turning this thread into an Austin Aztex Attendance thread.:)
     
  11. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just because it's more downtown doesn't mean it's a superior location. Nelson is actually better. Has easy major highway access from all parts of town, and plenty of parking.

    House is downtown. Granted, that's closer to folks that don't drive... but the large majority of the attendees are probably (I'm guessing) drivers. While it's intimate and will have great atmosphere it will bring its own unique issues.

    Just wanting to tamp down the glowing expectations of the non-resident;)
     
  12. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Okay, further off topic: Monika Sunholz: Hot or not? ;)
     
  13. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is that just pure random dredging up old memories? Or did you happen to see her in the Boston Marathon today?

    Oh, and, if I really must answer: hot.

    More specifically, still hot.

    :)
     
  14. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just some Background on Charleston situation. the move to Blackbaud was done right. I think you can look at Atlanta and Rochester to see some of the issues they had and organizations would be wise not to fall into the same traps.

    Atlanta basicly opened a stadium without any support facilities. concessions were a joke, toilets were portajohns, and there were rocks the size of softballs underneather the stands to both the "concessions" and the "toilets"

    Their cheapest ticket was $15. If I was a casual fan looking for a night out, I wouldnt have enjoyed my experience of twisted ankles, overprices food and crappy toilets. Even though they "fixed" those thing over next couple season, I feel like they loss many potential return customers by rushing the opening and I dont think they had a noticeable increase in attendence after the first few matches.

    When the Baud was opened there were still hiccups but the support buildings where there and gave the casual fan the feel of a "pro'' stadium.

    For Rochester it is/was a political minefield. Blackbaud was built with private funds which didnt create any stink in the community. Not too mention it was done quicker and the organization controlls 100% of the functions held there.

    Im pretty sure Rochester has seen a slum in attendence over the last couple years.

    lets face it most of us on this board are going to go to the match even if it was played in a parking lot. It the Casual fans that make up a majority of the attendance. for most of them, they couldnt tell you the difference between a ball into space or an errant pass. They will come back because they had a good time. Weather that is the food, kid play area, beer garden, atmosphere or there was a cute girl that looked at them and winked, the front office has to do the best they can to fill that void. When (if) the casual fan return, slowly educate them and marry them to the club and players. then they will come back week after week. that is how charleston's numbers have been consistant for the last few years. People enjoy coming to games. Can they do better on attendence, sure, i would love to see the Buad sold out each game. Bbut they are near the top of metro population to attendance ratios in MLS or USL. On a side note, the Battery match competed with our ECHL hockey team playoff games and the Family Circle Cup women tennis tournament less than a 1/2 mile down the road and I was extremely happy with the crowd.

    as to this years attendence, (to keep it on topic;) ) good to see Austin get high numbers for the first match and I hope they get those customers to return (the fans will) but I wonder what is going on in Cary? There numbers have drop dramaticaly this year from what I remember them at last year.

    I want Miami to succeed and hope there attendence isnt a flash in the pan but only time will tell.
     
  16. kenntomasch

    kenntomasch Member+

    Sep 2, 1999
    Out West
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's both funny and kinda true if you've ever been there. :)

    To a point, and a certain number of times. But today's fans demand more comfort because they get it in other places, too. Not everybody is a hardman who wants to suffer just to prove their spongeworthiness.

    Depends on where you are. And perhaps more hardcores would be there if (a) we had more hardcores and ( b) we didn't chase them away with crap stadiums and crap soccer.
     
  17. Mikey mouse

    Mikey mouse Member

    Jul 27, 1999
    Charleston, SC
    Club:
    Charleston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    didn't even notice my pun!


    agreed, but we will suffer more, but not indefinatly, than Mom and Dad bring the kids; first impressions and all.


    Thats the crux isnt it. There is always going to be an "Elitest" element that will find faults instead of enjoying what they have. Or you will get the young kid who just finished watch "Green Street Hooligans" and think they are the hardest supporter around.

    Me, Im happy that I have the Battery to cheer for and I dont have to morgage my house to take my family to a game. the video link in my signature sums it all up for me.

    My town, my club, warts and all...
     
  18. Alejo

    Alejo Member

    Jul 17, 2008
    Austin, Texas, Yall
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Repped.

    And as far as attendance at Nelson goes. Lets just say that "The Berm" will get a test run soon if I have anything to say about it.

    And if my test run is a success, and if people begin to realize that
    10$ + tax is a whole lot better than 17-22$ + tax, I think you will see it packed to the gills, at least once, before seasons end.

    For those who don't know what I'm talking about here's a photo.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. City Dave

    City Dave Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not seeing the difference between these two groups.

    ;)
     
  20. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Hahaha, the "slum" pun was genius. I think the biggest problem in Rochester is the location of the stadium, but that is only a problem because people in Rochester want to believe it's a problem. It's not THAT bad, anybody from Chicago or Detroit would likely say "and the problem is what?".

    Atlanta just blew in about every way. Terrible location (yes close to freeways but not really close to a ramp and back through a residential neighborhood on side streets. The stadium itself was awful, I gotta give it to Backs fans for enduring that.

    As for it being majority casual fans. I'm gonna say a majority of the time in Portland that the hardcore fans are the majority. Figure there is a base of hardcore fans at about 4000-5000. Anything beyond that is a casual USL fan. So, unless we get around 10000 fans, a majority are hardcore fans I'd say. I'd say Rochester is probably around the same AT THIS POINT. They lost most of their casual fanbase a couple years back. Montreal is difficult to tell who is hardcore and who isn't because they always do so well. I'd wager they be above half hardcore... especially considering they were able to draw 55,000 for CONCACAF.
     
  21. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's today's update. No new games, of course, just more working back through old data.

    Code:
    USL1
    
    % of season completed
    4.2%
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2004	3649	3290	0.0%	0.0%
    2005
    2006
    2007
    2008	4978	4138	0.0%	14.3%
    2009	4001	4367	0.0%	0.0%
    
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2005	4527	3554	20.2%	8.0%
    2006	4666	3370	18.5%	10.7%
    2007	4821	4291	18.8%	10.3%
    2008	5164	4510	10.9%	12.1%
    _____________________________________
    
    USL2
    
    % of season completed
    2.2%
    Year	Average	Median	%<2K	%>10k
    2005	1980	1980	0.0%	0.0%
    2006
    2007
    2008	997	997	50.0%	0.0%
    2009	2499	2499	0.0%	0.0%
    
    Final Numbers
    Year	Average	Median	%<1K	%>3k
    2005	1680	1457	21.4%	11.9%
    2006	1803	1703	14.1%	11.8%
    2007	1575	1423	28.1%	6.3%
    2008	1614	1629	26.0%	7.3%
    I'll have to check and see what Andy does when there are different numbers of games per season. I'm picking the nearest percentage to the current one and not sweating it. It's close enough, considering all the other inaccuracies discussed elsewhere on the thread.;)
     
  22. City Dave

    City Dave Member

    Jan 26, 2007
    Cleveland, OH
    Club:
    Cleveland C. S.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What do you mean? Why should it matter? Are you talking about comparing attendance between seasons?
     
  23. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. I'm doing what Andy B does for the MLS stats, comparing 'where we are this season' to 'how things looked in previous seasons at this point.' See the '% of season completed' lists at the top of each league?

    Problem is, with different number of total games played each season because of the different number of teams in each league, I can't always get the exact same % for each season.

    Why should it matter? Well, it only matters if I'm being really anal. Which, once I start getting into doing this stuff, I tend toward:)

    But, as I said

     
  24. VioletCrown

    VioletCrown Member+

    FC Dallas
    United States
    Aug 30, 2000
    Austin, Texas
    Club:
    Austin Aztex
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    BTW, Andy has said on the MLS threads that once we get to 30% of the season completed, that will pretty much tell us how the season will finish.

    I'm not sure that we'll be able to say the same thing with USL1, though we might be able to with USL2. I've only just started looking at these numbers, so I don't have the experience with USL1/2 that Andy does with MLS.

    But having worked up some of the data from the past few seasons, I can say that two of the USL1's biggest draws (Rochester & Montreal) tend to start their home season a LOT later. This means that the better attendances are heavily weighted to the second half of the season, so we may not be able to use the 30% point to tell us how the year will go.

    Now, this is just an impression I've had from doing data entry, and I haven't actually looked at this closely so I could be wrong. Portland's also become a very big draw and their home games are usually spread out more evenly through the season (just throwing that in to keep the Portland people from complaining. If they're listening. Oh, hi, Marquis!;))
     
  25. The Marquis

    The Marquis Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2007
    Washougal, WA
    Club:
    Portland Timbers
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think we'll have to get farther than 30% because of how the schedule is set up.

    For one, Rochester has their first 5 away, being 3rd in attendance in the league that will skew the first half numbers a little lower than they will likely end up being I figure, so we'd need to have a larger sample of Rochester.

    Also, with two expansion teams we'll need a little longer to see how/if they are consistent or not. Will they be a Vancouver with consitent attendance where the lowest is like 4,900 and the highest is 5,100 or a Portland where the attendance fluctuates a lot with the lowest at 4,900 and the highest at 13,000?

    I guess we'll see, but I think we need a bigger sample to get a good idea of where we'll be in comparison with previous years myself.

    As for Portland, last year was 2nd in attendance, previous years has typically been 3rd. Rochester has lost some serious ground since moving into Paetec while Portland has seem major growth. It's sad for the Rhinos really and I hope things improve for them.
     

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