2009 Confed Cup to test 6 official system

Discussion in 'Referee' started by GlennAA11, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Tucked away at the end of this article about Herr Blatter's plan B for the World Cup should South Africa be unable to host
    http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iXECCtriE6KsClzP74TrYuSXbzwA is word that he is planning to test a 6 official system at next year's Confederations Cup. The two extra officials will be in charge of watching for incidents in the penalty area.

    How the mechanics of this will work is a bit beyond me. And it seems likely to fail just as the other recent experiments with more referees failed.
     
  2. PVancouver

    PVancouver Member

    Apr 1, 1999
    I don't know why you would want to limit their judging to the penalty area, unless they are given a dual role of judging whether or not a goal is scored.

    It seems conceivable to me to have the primary responsibilty of current ARs switched from offside judgment to off the ball fouls (these ARs would not be required to stay in their own half, but would trail the play in the CR's half), and have two new ARs on the opposite side (the CR's side) assume offside decision responsibilities.

    The old AR's (now primarily looking for off the ball fouls) would have the same touch line responsibilities they had before, but would only flag for balls going into touch in their own half, just as they do now.

    The new AR's would be required to stay in their own half (in order to judge offside), but would take over the task of flagging if the ball was out but may return to the field, a duty the old AR's have for that part of the field now.

    The CR could then make his own decision regarding direction, or ask either one of the two AR's (usually the new AR, but possibly the old AR if he is much closer to the play), in turn, for a direction if necessary.
     
  3. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Per the IFAB minutes they are going to experiment with two officials to concentrate on fouls and misconduct the the penalty area. That's all they approved.

    http://www.fifa.com/aboutfifa/federation/bodies/media/newsid=707751.html#goal+line+technology
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Saying this should be interesting is an understatement. I'm sure details will come forth as the tournament approaches but there are some questions that automatically arise...

    A) Will these be FIFA ARs or CRs? Considering they are "assisting," you'd think ARs. But then again, they are only dealing with fouls and misconduct, so perhaps CRs make more sense.

    B) Will they be using flags or some sort of technology?

    C) What will their positioning be? One would most likely presume that they'd be on the opposite quadrant from the ARs. But will they be free to move behind the goals to the other side?

    D) Will ARs be instructed not to assist in the penalty area now? If they are still free to, what happens if they do and the goal line official doesn't or has different advice?

    E) Will there still be a "fifth official" ("seventh?")? It would seem unlikely. I imagine, in fact, that the six officials will just be two crews. One nationality as CR/ARs and one nationality as 4th/penalty area officials. That seems to be easiest for assignments, but it certainly complicates matters on the field.
     
  5. GOOOOAL!!

    GOOOOAL!! New Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    I believe one word will describe what will happen........

    Chaos

    I see whatever they decide to do working for a couple games with maybe a couple little glitches, nothing big. It will be praised by the Blatter as a success half way through the tourney. Then in a semi-final there will be a big blow up with all kinds of confusion and a major mistake. It will then be tossed out the window with the rest of the trials and we'll be back to a referee, 2 ARs and a couple people off the field for bench and paperwork.

    Let's hope the insanity happens at the Confed Cup and not at the WC.
     
  6. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's worth a try. How many times have we discussed a foul in the area that neither the CR or AR could see? A push in the back to clear space comes to mind.

    My question is if it is better for the game to have Blatter thinking about things that affect play or to be more concerned about (things like) getting sexier kits on the women players?
     
  7. DerbyRam54

    DerbyRam54 Member

    Apr 26, 2005
    It is perhaps better for the game if Herr Blatter focuses on lunch and dinner menus.

    The mechanics of this will indeed be interesting. In theory you'd assume that the whole team would be working off the same page as regards foul recognition etc, but how will that work in practice, even at the highest level?

    MassRef's point about positioning is also a good one. Supposing he has it right (and it's as logical as anything) what happens if there's an incident on the other side, unseen by the touchline AR and not visible to either the goal-line AR or the CR? What next? Two ARs behind the goal? Another one suspended in some kind of balloon above the penalty area?

    Meanwhile, on Sunday mornings on muddy park fields, we'll soldier on with just the one CR assisted by 22 or more players each with their own opinion and version of the LOTG. Maybe Herr Blatter could join them for a beer and get some more useful ideas.
     
  8. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We have the same thing with ARs today. That's not one of the biggest complaints that I hear.

    My guess is that he will be behind the goal line is a position to box play in the area with the CR. That means that he will tend to be on the half of the goal line closest to the AR. Th ARs' duties won't change except he will concentrate more on offside, leaving fouls to the GLR (goal line referee).

    On PKs I predict he will be where the AR is now and the AR will move up to the 18.
     
  9. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    This sounds like the "goal line AR" to replace the chip technology in the ball, which they then thought "well just watching the goal line isn't really all that interesting, let's give them something else to watch"

    It's worth discussing, but lots of questions.
     
  10. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    and will these extra officials feel like they NEED to make some calls to justify being there at all?

    I like the idea of a balloon. Or maybe they could just be suspended by some sort of wire harness with a remote control to glide through the air like those above-the-field cameras.
     
  11. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This was exactly my take.

    I'm dubious, but it's worth a shot. The sport needs to clean up the penalty area. One of the ironies is that referees are reluctant to award goals via PK, because each goal is so precious in our sport. But the reluctance to give PKs just makes them more precious. It's a negative cycle. (Same with borderline offside calls.)

    Finally, a purpose for the Confederations Cup! ;)
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've got to say, I think if any experiment with additional officials is worth trying, it is to just go with 4 ARs (two of which, in the "on quadrants" of the CR's diagonal, would have offside duties). I'm not sold on the idea--mainly because it can't be instituted anywhere but the absolute top levels--but it seems to be practical without changing the basic dynamics of officiating too much, so there'd be no harm in trying it out.

    This experiment strikes me as dangerous because it's institutionalizing the fact that the penalty area is different. As Glenn says, will these officials feel the need to make calls to justify their position? If so, you could see 2-3 penalties per game and some highly controversial diving sanctions. And if they don't, what's going to be said of them when replays show grappling/holding that goes unpunished? I could be wrong, but I potentially see a lose-lose proposition. Either they'll do too much, thereby changing the game. Or they'll be deemed ineffectual and irrelevant.

    But we haven't seen details of the plan, yet--nevermind actual results. It could prove successful. But even it it does, I doubt you'll see it any place but FIFA (and possibly UEFA) tournaments.
     
  13. Wreave

    Wreave Member

    May 4, 2005
    Colorado Springs, CO
    He'll sit on a chair mounted on a pole as an extension of the left post - like a tennis referee!
     
  14. GlennAA11

    GlennAA11 Member+

    Jun 12, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    will he be in play or out of play?
     
  15. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think so. Except for a PK my hypothetical positioning would leave the goal line ARs out of position to make the goal/no goal call. Plus, if their mandate is to watch for fouls and misconduct in the area they should not have to worry about straddling the goal line and sighting along it at the very moment that fouls/misconduct are very likely to happen.
     
  16. Sagy

    Sagy New Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    It looks like the 2 additional refs are going to be inside the penalty area: Three Referees On Pitch At Confederations Cup
    I liked the idea of Goal Line referees (we have seen some bad mistakes), I'm even in favor of the PA refs as two more AR stationed outside the pitch near one of the posts. However, IMO, putting them in the penalty area is a poor idea which will lead to more controversies and not less. If they actually going to end up with three whistles on the field it will be a total disaster.
     
  17. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There is no way they will give them whistles. That would be absoluting insane.
     
  18. Another NH Ref

    Another NH Ref BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 29, 2008
    Southern NH
    Absolutely the latter! :D Much less harm that way...
     
  19. nonya

    nonya Member

    Mar 2, 2006
    I think each player on the pitch needs a referee, so thats what 44 people on the field?
     
  20. GOOOOAL!!

    GOOOOAL!! New Member

    Feb 21, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    I like this..... more chance for us referees to get involved in the game :rolleyes:
     
  21. GAreferee

    GAreferee New Member

    Jun 27, 2008
    Club:
    Aston Villa FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think that the whole idea of 6 officials is dumb. There are more negatives than positives that will come out of this 'experiment'.


    Also, this is my first post on BigSoccer. Just so you know, my other alias is USAref15 on the Official Sports forum.
     

Share This Page