Malone's best team played against Jordan's Bulls (a matchup he could not have won no matter what he did), and he was injured against Detroit in 2004, IIRC. See Starks, John "three-for-nineteen in Game 7". Pat couldn't control that. Elway was beaten twice by the best coaching system of that era in the 49ers, a 22-of-25 performance from Phil Simms and a 35-point second quarter from Doug Williams. Elway's ability to get the job done was never in doubt. The problen was his supporting cast- particularly the defense in those losses to San Francisco and Washington.
Who did Jordan steal the ball from to setup his winner? Malone, a notable choker. Ewing also had a pretty well deserved rep for not coming up big in big situations, you cant just break it down with those excuses. They were what they were.
MJ then proceeded to push the hell out of Bryon Russell before shooting. Still, it was Jordan's Bulls. Utah loses no matter what. Ewing didn't have the ball while Starks went 3-19 in Game 7. Starks stole Ewing's chance to rid himself of whatever "non-clutch" label the masses attach to him. That's a fact, not an excuse. And Elway was a HoF lock and known for being a great clutch player before 1997.
Jordan and one game have little to do with Karl Malone's rep. Starks and one game have little to do with Ewing's rep. A reputation is built over time, not explained by one play or by one situation, sorry. Neither wanted the ball in crunch time. I dont recall ever even arguing the Elway thing as this is not a football board, at this point you seem lost in your own thoughts.
It's in the post before the one before the last. Don't know if you wrote it (are you "SG"?)or quoted someone else, but it's there. Never lost- just trying to raise the level of discourse. See you on the other boards.
Kobe involved his teammates as much as or more then Pierce did. Kobe is twice the defender your Boytoy 'I'm gonna fake a injury so I can be like Reed' Pierce is. Excuses for what? I'm not making excuses. The Finals went as expected. I'm disappointed that only one guy showed up, but that's been the case with the Lakers the last four years. Most had Celtics to win before the Playoffs began. Jordan never raised his teammates. That was all Pippen.
We are talking about the award. Goddamnit. You guys are the only people on the planet who thinks Finals MVP is a higher individual honor then MVP. Paker won the Finals MVP last season and it ain't worth shit. What a ********ing joke that was as Duncan had carried that team and was clearly the Playoffs best player. God. I better stop with this MVP debate because when I call people stupid the mods want to ban me. I'm done with this.
The main thing is though, the two times that Kobe has been asked to be the main guy in a Finals for the Lakers, he came up short ('04 and '08). The three times Shaq was the main guy, they won the Finals. His supposedly "bad" teammates were good enough to carry him through the entire Western Play-offs with only three losses. Would MJ in his prime have lost this series with Kobe's supporting cast? I would be inclined to say no...
If they had played in the Finals, like they did in the West Playoffs, things would have been alot different. If you can't see that you've got problems being objective. But, of course, it's Kobes fault that they choked. If it had been Jordan instead of Kobe, Lakers would have won 4-0 with an average win margin of atleast 36 points. Not to mention that MJ would have held Pierce to 7ppg on 12% shooting and KG would have fouled out, all fouls against Mike, in every game within 22 minutes. And afterwards, you could all get in line to suck Jordans dick for just $125.000 pr second while Oliver Stone himself filmed it in its entirety for your personal collection.
Thanks for the offer, but I doubt that getting fellated by a Belgian bloke is very high on MJ's wish list. Appreciate the thought nontheless. I never said that MJ would have swept the Cs, but he certainly would have willed himself to the basket a lot more than Kobe, which in itself would have helped the Lakers immensily. (under current rules, the Cs would have ended up in trouble much quicker with the amount of fouls they would have needed to keep MJ from penetrating).
Jordan would just have said, guys step up, and then everyone would shoot 80% from the field immediately while playing lock-down defense on everyone. He's such a great leader! OMG! And of course all the calls that Boston got that Lakers didn't get, that would be switched around now because Jordan really knows how to make everyone around him better. Especially the referees.
MJ won the 98 finals with a 37-year old Rodman and with Pippen playing at 50% due to a back injury. The idea that his teammates were some sort of supermen in comparison to Kobe's is blatantly false. He was able to get it done even when his supporting cast weren't playing to the best of their abilities. Kobe has yet to prove he can do the same.
Now Pierce has his own legacy in the Celtics' storied franchise. "It means everything," Pierce said. "You know, I'm not living under the shadows of the other greats now. I'm able to make my own history with my time here, and like I said, this is something that I wanted to do. If I was going to be [among] the best Celtics to ever play I had to put up a banner. That's gotta be embarrassing, considering he's not even close to KG on the All Time list.
No doubt. Jordan could probably take New York straight to the Finals and sweep anyone coming from the West without breaking a sweat. Pippen, Kerr, Kukoc, Rodman, Harper, those guys didn't reach Radmanovic to his ankles. And when Jordan and his terrible teammates held Utah to a NBA Finals all time low 54 points, Jordan had 17 steals and 27 blocks and did everything himself. And anyone who says Jordan averaged 27 points on 42% shooting in those finals are lying. That's obviously impossible. He was even credited for an assist while sitting on the bench because he looked right at Harper (lucky him!) and right after he made a pass to Luc for a lay in. What a leader!
It was really peculiar how unimpressive Kobe was this series - he relies way too much on his perimeter game. If Odom hadn't accidentally had one good game, this series wouldn't have gone to 6. I have a question for y'all, who is the least likable mega-star out there: Kobe, Ronaldo, or Alex Rodriguez?
For the Celtics he is, and that is exactly what he is talking about. Pierce will certainly retire with more status as a Celic than KG and completely outperformed KG in the entire postseason and finals. If you want to talk embarrassing, how about 7-22 in game 6, or how about Kobe losing his will after the frst quarter of multiple games and crumbling like an amateur. His performance was embarrassing in these finals, your hissy fit of posts is embarrassing. Nothing like Lakers fans showing their lack of class(just like Phil and Kobe) and calling Pierce a faker, and blaming everyone but Kobe for shortcomings of the team. How young is LeBron still? He played better and smarter versus the Celtics than Kobe with less around him, kind of sad.
Wow, question of the month for me. I really really dislike all 3, at leat I can resect Ronaldo lifting his team to championships. But does that make me hate him more or less? Kobe wouldnt be so bad, if his fans were not so annoying. The media was on board for awhile saying he was almost comparable to MJ but even they have seen the folly in that after his miserable failure. I gotta go Ronaldo, if for nothing else he is also one of the biggest cheaters Ive ever seen.
Here's an interesting question: what do you believe would have happened had Kobe and Lebron switched teams at the beginning of the season? I'm pretty sure that James would've be able to carry his team to the conference finals. On the other hand, I'm not so sure that Kobe is able to force seven games against the Celtics with the Cavs as his supporting cast. This is not to bash Kobe, btw, I just think that Lebron's game poses the Celtics more problems than Kobe's.