2008 NBA Playoffs Thread

Discussion in 'Basketball' started by Hendrixforpope, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Just because KG struggles doesn't mean you leave him open, like you do with Rad, Jordan and Vujacic. KG struggles against double teams. Kobes teammates struggle against basically no coverage. Big difference.
     
  2. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I think Kobe had a good season right up to the Finals, where he underwhelmed. I don't think you can pass all the blame to his teammates either, you win and lose as a team. Remember, when they were storming through to the Western Conference Finals, he got most of the plaudits. If he's serious about being a leader than he has to own up to his part in this finals defeat. You can't have it both ways.
     
  3. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Difference here being, Celtics stunk with Doc. KG came in and they win it all. Lakers stunk with Kobe and Shaq. Phil came in and they won it all. Doc isn't a difference maker. Phil is.
     
  4. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Kobe will say it's his fault. Don't worry about him taking the blame for this. Everyone knows it wasn't his fault though. If his shooters step up this would have been alot more interesting.

    It did end like I predicted though. If this was 2-0 going back to LA I said this would be over in six.
     
  5. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I can't remember who for sure, but I think it was Ernst Happel who once said something to the effect of:

    "A really, really good coach can make his team perform 10% above the sum of their parts, but a bad coach can easily make his team perform 50% below the sum of their parts."

    The thing is, the sum of the parts of last year's Celtics wasn't enough to win anything.
    The sum of the parts of the 99 Lakers obviously was. :)
     
  6. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    True, they really needed to win one of the first two to have a cushion in case they lost one of the three middle games (which in a back-to-back-to-back home game format is always likely to happen).
     
  7. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    You're right. But I don't think Doc would have won with that Lakers team. And not being as great as Phil isn't a shame either. Doc outcoached Phil in this series though. He made all the right moves at the right time. Still, I give most of the credit to Tom and to KG. Those are the guys who changed this team.
     
  8. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So was I. And I personally don't think it's a sure thing that it'll work, especially not with Odom at the 3.

    What you needed were some easy shots. You couldn't get any, and Bynum wouldn't fix that. Lakers fans want to point strictly to how they were manhandled underneath and blame Bynum being out as the sole cause of your demise; so be it. But it was the team's inability to get into the paint consistently that doomed them from the start. Kobe, for all his individual talent, never figured out how to use his teammates to his advantage in this one. Pierce did.

    You don't have a great record on predictions. Conversely, I do.

    Celtics vs. Spurs in 2009. Not sure who I'm going to pick to win it all yet.

    He gagged horribly on the big stage. He couldn't raise his game or lift his teammates to a new level, instead spending his time lashing out at them and sowing the seeds of his own failure. No matter what the numbers say, one thing is readily apparent from these playoffs: Kobe Bryant is not a good enough player to be the featured man on a championship team.

    Which was an issue of Kobe's making. Just as he's done the past four years (though obviously in earlier rounds), when the going gets tough he doesn't have the bottle to lead a team. Instead he goes into a shell, humiliates his teammates and chokes when it really matters. I remember the Suns series' as well as you do.

    Kobe wouldn't have Olajuwon, Olajuwon would have Kobe. Just as Shaq had Kobe.

    He's not tough enough mentally to be the best player on a championship team. He's reaching the end of his prime and his flaws are there for the world to see. If it was anyone else but the LA (or New York) media darling this wouldn't even be an issue.

    You need somebody to score 80 in February? To run a Denver team that has no wing defense out of the gym in the first round of the playoffs? Kobe's your guy.

    You need someone to come through when it matters? Shop elsewhere.
     
  9. biggyv

    biggyv Member

    May 18, 2000
    PGH PA
    "Mental fortitude" might be a better term. His failure to recognize the strengths and weaknesses of his teammates, as well his desire to win a title only on his terms, is problematic. He's also a terrible teammate.
     
  10. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    What strenghts are you talking about? The ability to miss open jumpers? I'm sure Kobe is more then aware of that.

    All these juvenile labels you put on Kobe is getting old and stupid and quite frankly boring.
     
  11. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Yeah. Get Shaq instead. Good luck with that.
     
  12. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I would rather be the best player in the Finals where it really matters. Being the regular season MVP just means exactly that, you were the best player before the playoffs. You can be the MVP and not win the title while if you are the Finals MVP, your team probably won the championship which is a hell of a lot better.
     
  13. biggyv

    biggyv Member

    May 18, 2000
    PGH PA
    Are these NBDL guys he's playing with? And on the flip side, are Leon Powe, Eddie House, and Big Baby All-Stars? All I'm saying is that Kobe had a bad series, just like everyone else on the team.
     
  14. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Winning the championship has nothing to do with how highly regarded a MVP award is. You're getting desperate. Everyone knows the regular season MVP is the NBAs highest individual honor.
     
  15. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    You know the Western Conference is overrated when the Celtics have a harder time against the Hawks, Cavs, and Pistons (arguable) than the "mighty" Lakers :D
     
  16. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Regular season MVP = Most Valuable Poser

    Finals MVP (or MVC as I like to put it) = Most Valuable Champion

    What would you rather be? The best poser or the best champion? :D
     
  17. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    It sure looked like it at times.
    Atleast they hit some big shots.
    Did I ever say anything else?

    Isn't it funny how everyone expects Kobe to be as good as KG and Pierce combined. I guess that's just how good he is.

    Kobe in the finals:
    Minutes 43,0 FG%0,405 FT%0,796 4,7rpg 5,0apg 2,7TOpg 3,83spg 25,7ppg
    Pierce in the finals:
    Minutes 38.8 FG%0.432 FT%0.830 4.5rpg 6.3apg 1.2TOpg 3.67spg 21.8ppg

    I'd love to see a stat on the kind of attention these two got on defense. I bet Kobe saw 10 times more double and tripple teams then Pierce did.
     
  18. Duck Manson

    Duck Manson Member+

    Feb 8, 2005
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Ah that would make more sense. I'll take the last one any day ;)
     
  19. biggyv

    biggyv Member

    May 18, 2000
    PGH PA
    Vujacic was big in Game 3, as I recall. Odom was very good in Game 5.

    I don't think he did. By laying off of Rondo, the Lakers were able to give help on KG and Pierce. And LA didn't seem to figure out what to do on th KG/Pierce high screen and roll, variating between doubling one or the other. And Pierce had a tougher defensive assignment for most of the series.
     
  20. Hendrixforpope

    Hendrixforpope Member+

    Barcelona
    Brazil
    Dec 15, 2007
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    I say Rondo was the C's best player (overall) in game 6. He was hustling like hell out there.
     
  21. Walter3000

    Walter3000 Member+

    Apr 8, 2004
    gainesville, Florida
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Yet Pierce was the smarter player. Involved teammates when necessary and put the offense on his back when necessary, Kobe looked confused. He also was content to guard Rondo instead of locking Pierce down and shutting him out of the Finals, because we all know how much of an all world defender he is right? :rolleyes: Kobe's defense is about as over rated as Jeter's. Kobe is the most talented player in the league, he isnt a leader, not a great teammate, and failed miserably in his biggest test.

    You can keep giving more and more excuses, but his teams crumbled mentally, and he did little on court or in terms of leadership to do anything about it. What a vanishing act.


    And btw, the Lakers were the favorite, all but one "expert" on ESPN picked them to win, as did the nations fans vote, the players were plenty good enough until they ran into the Celtics. So lets call it like it is: The Celtics are just a better team, and Kobe is not good enough to raise his teammates to the next level, he isnt Jordan, and isnt close. I say that is also what makes me think he wont be the best player in the league for long, LBJ makes everyone around him better, if he improves his D and J watch out.
     
  22. Walter3000

    Walter3000 Member+

    Apr 8, 2004
    gainesville, Florida
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You build championship calibre teams around Shaq, and disappointments around Kobe.
     
  23. Walter3000

    Walter3000 Member+

    Apr 8, 2004
    gainesville, Florida
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why is everyone so jazzed about the Lakers frontline next season?

    Gasol-Bynum-Odom

    Sure Id rather have Bynum at the 5 than Gasol, and Gasol at the 4 over Odom, but Odom at the 3? Cant guard anyone, cant shoot, same problems, IMO.

    Still a soft team with little defense or the ability to hit open shots. Meaning swarming Kobe is still the way to beat 'em.
     
  24. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    No.

    A Finals MVP means that your team reached the Finals, and in most cases won the championship. I'm sure Kobe would have given someone else the MVP in exchange for a ring that he earned as a leader. I'll bet Jerry West would have liked a few more rings himself.
     
  25. Walter3000

    Walter3000 Member+

    Apr 8, 2004
    gainesville, Florida
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Let the record show KG played one of his greatest games to help clinch a championship. It's something Elvin Hayes can't say, or Karl Malone, or Patrick Ewing, or Chris Webber, or anyone else from the not-so-clutch group that Garnett escaped. Much like John Elway after the '97 Super Bowl, any lingering questions about Garnett's ability to raise his game in big moments vanished into thin air for good Tuesday night. They will never be asked again. It's funny how a championship can do that."

    -SG
     

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