2005 Expansion Draft- Metro (incl. Unprotected list)

Discussion in 'New York Red Bulls' started by goalscorer111, Nov 16, 2004.

  1. goalscorer111

    goalscorer111 New Member

    Jan 23, 2004
    FYI:

    The MetroStars' unprotected and protected list for Friday's expansion draft can be seen at www.BigAppleSoccer.com
     
  2. MJNES

    MJNES New Member

    Jul 8, 1999
    Cranford, NJ
    Re: Unprotected list

    If this turns out to be the official list, I'm surprised that Brenes wasn't protected. While he certainly didn't show a lot of promise when he played with the Metrostars, he still has a lot of upside and I have to believe that he's inexpensive.

    Depending on the cap hit, I'd expect to see Brenes and Vaca suiting up for Chivas, and Ziadie manning the back in Utah.

    Don't think anyone will take Walker due to his salary. Ditto for SGR...
     
  3. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Unprotected list

    Hopefully Walker goes first and then Metro can pull back Brenes (I doubt whether anyone would take Wells.)

    I'm pleasantly surprised by the list

    Brenes is the only one I'd be sad to see go. Showed flashes and is inexpensive.

    Walker is good, but can be reasonably replaced.

    Wells and Vaca, eh (although scratch that - Wells is the first one to get pulled back if Walker goes and/or vice versa).

    The other three I actively despise and pray someone will be dumb enough to take them.

    Then of course, there's always trades...
     
  4. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Unprotected list

    Unprotected (7)

    Jonny Walker
    Zach Wells
    Sergio Galvan Rey
    Pablo Brenes
    Tim Regan
    Craig Ziadie
    Joselito Vaca

    Protected (12)

    Amado Guevara
    Eddie Pope
    Eddie Gaven
    Ricardo Clark
    Jeff Parke
    Chris Lietch
    Tenywa Bonseu
    Mark Lisi
    John Wolyniec
    Cornel Glen
    Fabian Taylor
    Mike Magee

    Developmental (4)

    Kenny Arena
    Seth Stammler
    Michael Bradley
    Gilberto Flores

    ------------

    Three things:

    1)Why protect Taylor? He's got talent, and the Metros offense was at its best when he was on the field. The flip side is that he wastes an unacceptable amount of chances. Maybe the idea is that they'd just ship him back to Jamaica after the draft and open up the roster spot for someone like Dely Valdes or Roberto Brown. FWIW, with the SI total upped to four (and Bonseu about to get his green card), I'm not against keeping Taylor.

    2)Why expose Brenes? He was one of our best players down the stretch, and the only left footed flank player we've got. I guess they're gambling that Chivas will spend all their TI slots on Mexicans and RSL will go in another direction as well. I'd be sorely disappointed if we lost him.

    3)Pleasantly surprised we appear to be keeping Lisi. Our offense went south when he got injured, and it looks like Bob recognizes that. Whether he recognizes the fact that a central midfield of Clark/Lisi/Guevara will have a natural rhythm remains to be seen, but this bodes well IMHO.


    Incidently, the unprotected list also gives a glimpse into what was a poor year of acquisitions for the Metro. One major allocation (SGR), one traded first round pick (Vaca), one discovery (Brenes), and one traded-for third round pick (Wells). When you retool every year you're going to have hits and misses, but this season was worst than most. That said, I like the talent on this team and don't want to see wholesale changes. Several of our youngsters are on the verge of making the leap (Clark, Gaven, Parke) while others look to be competent role players (Brenes, Lietch, Magee, Regan). I hope we don't go into panic mode and trade these guys for 70 cents on the dollar, talent-wise.
     
  5. Olesh

    Olesh Member

    Jul 24, 1999
    South Bay
    Re: Unprotected list

    I meant to post on this earlier in the week, but didn't get the chance. I saw it posted on the MLS N&A board earlier in the week, but can't find it now. MLS put out an expansion draft rules clarification and it said that graduating TI's would be counted as SI's for expansion draft purposes, and would be included in the rule that teams could only leave one SI unprotected. As a result, we had no choice but to protect Taylor. New England is in a similar bind with graduating TI's.

    ---EDIT---

    Found the Link:
    http://www.mlsnet.com/MLS/news/mls_news.jsp?ymd=20041113&content_id=18925&vkey=news_mls&fext=.jsp

    Relevant Part:

     
  6. HotAssAlex

    HotAssAlex New Member

    Jan 20, 2004
    Staten Island, NY
    Re: Unprotected list

    do we have ANYTHING that maybe Dallas need? to give us Eddie Johnson
     
  7. Matrim55

    Matrim55 Member+

    Aug 14, 2000
    Berkeley
    Club:
    Connecticut
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Unprotected list

    You're not even trying, are you?

    Thanks for the info, Olesh. It explains a bit, and I guess it means we won't be seeing Taylor back next season. I'm not disappointed - but then again, I won't be disappointed if he does return next year. As long as he's not expected to be our main option.

    Tom - Disagree about Regan. It's not a crushing blow if we lose him, but it's not a good thing either. He played well in his start against DCU in the playoffs and is a hard worker who contributes all over the field. Will he ever be a starter in the league? Probably not. But he's a quality role player who's got two years experience and, IMHO, will be an asset next season.
     
  8. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    I'm pretty happy about holding onto Lisi. I think he's a crucial asset that the Metros hold on.


    I also hope somebody picks up something, so we can pull back Brenes. It's pretty strange that we let him go. He was playing pretty well, he's young, and he's a lefty.

    As for Taylor, I wouldn't mind seeing him back. I think he has a ton of potential and talent. I still haven't forgotten how well he played when he first came to the Metros. His game was very simple, but as the season wore on, he tried to do too much with his touches.
     
  9. terp fan

    terp fan New Member

    Nov 21, 2000
    Re: Unprotected list

    Yes a deal can get done...... send Gaven, Clarke, Guevara and lots of cash. Also understand that MLS only has a 2 year option on him.
     
  10. jamison

    jamison Member

    Sep 25, 2000
    NYC
    Re: Unprotected list

    Matrim hit it on the head with the acquisitions. To think we could start next season without Wells, Walker, SGR, Taylor, Vaca and Brenes (via drafts, trades, etc) kinds of brings the last 16 or so months worth of lineup juggling into an unfortunate perspective.

    I actually think Arena might be more valuable than Regan, but they aren't all that different in talent and it wasn't like we had to pick between them. Regan can play more places, but I think Arena is better as a central defender than Regan is anywhere he plays. Not that he's bad, he just seems to be a jack of all defensive trades, master of few, if any.

    I guess leaving Wells and Walker unprotected lets you know that Thornton rumor wasn't completely off base. Though, if we were going to trade Walker for an allocation, I would have expected him to be protected. Now it seems they are hoping Walker gets taken, they trade for Thornton and gets Wells back, but that seems pretty poor roster management. It's unlikely Wells will get taken anyway, and even if he does- this is the US, just open another can of Goalkeeper. Why protect Leitch and Lisi when you would likely get a better allocation trading Walker than you would for either of those guys. Much as I like Leitch and Lisi, with a 24 man roster next year I don't see either of them as unable to be replaced. It's a headscratcher that you were talking about trading a guy, and then just let him go for free, but then again I'm hoping Walker is in our net next year.

    I too would be upset to see Brenes leave, he showed flashes, though it's understandable that we need a legit left back and we don't have space for him in the midfield, unless we go to 5 mids.
     
  11. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just because someone's on the protected list doesn't mean they'll be back. I still think we make some deal to unload Pope.

    I look at that list and think that there are maybe four value (not valuable, value -- potential vs. cost) players on that list: Brenes, Vaca, Wells, and Ziadie. Those are the sort of guys who are taken in expansion drafts, not the Walkers and SGRs. Though I'd love love love to think that SGR's presence on that list over T-Bone means that one of the expansion teams has already agreed to take him.
     
  12. lkgf09

    lkgf09 Member

    Jun 7, 2004
    Brooklyn
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a good chance to get rid of our crap. I hope that somebody will take away SGR and Craig Zaidie. I hope Regan also leaves because he can't pass for shite. Walker better stay or I will hate Nick even more. If we do lose Walker who do you see being the goalie next year?
     
  13. HotAssAlex

    HotAssAlex New Member

    Jan 20, 2004
    Staten Island, NY
    since Chivas get to pick first I think its pretty clear...if their GM in control then their first pick is SGR, if their coach then its must be Walker.
    ofcourse unless other clubs will leave something more "tasty" for grab's
     
  14. MetroFever

    MetroFever Member

    Jun 3, 2001
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    Croatia
    No major surprises; everyone on this list is repleacable:

    Lisi protected?......if this was the NBA, no one would touch him with 10-foot pole with his myriad of ankle injuries, but since his salary is low compared to many others in MLS, the expansion teams would deem him worth the risk and snap him up.

    SGR- Any word if Chivas will take him? Perhaps we can lie and say someone from his mother's side is Mexican.

    Walker- Just had rotator cuff surgery last week. Will he still be headed to Chivas? It's not like he'll be throwing 100 mph fastballs, but it's still a serious injury for a goaltender to have. Wells was impressive in his brief stint and makes a paltry fee, so don't rule him out of the picture.

    Vaca- We can see why Dallas was eager to hand him over to the Metros as the 140 pound player was always bullied around in the midfield.

    Bonseu- Doesn't make anywhere near the league max and looked great playing right fullback. Unless the Metros pull another Jeff Parke out of the draft, he's the starter next season.
     
  15. B Rock

    B Rock Member

    Oct 7, 2004
    Re: Unprotected list

    I think that the value of GKs in this league is incredibly low right now, contrary to popular belief, and that after Nick S. made those comments about Walker they'd be happy to unload him for absolutley nothing.

    This is a list of Keepers who could easily be had this offseason: Garlick, Walker, Countess, Ring/Thorton, Brown, and Meola.
    Garlick is too expensive and Cassar (sp?) played just as well over the year. Just a simple question of economics.
    The Metros have clearly soured on Walker, and I can't say I blame them, some of his performances this year were poor, and its time for a shakeup throughout the team.
    Countess graduated from P-40 and is simply too expensive to keep around as a backup. He's still young and still has a lot of promise for a building team (RSL are you listening?)
    Ring and Thorton can't coexist this year. It appears from reports of Thorton being shopped that Ring would be starting next year. That just makes too Thorton too expensive as a backup, and Chicago has Pickens (draft pick last year) waiting to backup.
    Reis was outstanding for NE this season, and with Brown's cap number you'd have to figure that if NE could offload him they'd consider it. Even if Brown comes back healthy its hard to imagine him not having to earn his spot back after Reis' season.
    Meola looks to be on the outs with KC after being left on the bench for the final, he is out of contract I believe and KC might give Bo a chance.

    Along with this Chivas has been rumored to be brining in a SI as a keeper (which might be pure rubbish, I don't know). But basically, the market for keepers this offseason has been incredibly inflated by BS speculation. Chicago NEEDS to unload at least one of its keepers, and preferably two. There are just so many keepers avaliable that it is mind boggling for anyone to get value for one. Thats what made the proposed Thorton/Armas for Clark/Pope deal so ridiculous. In honesty there is NO market for Thorton and if the Mets want him they should be able to get him for vitually nothing.
     
  16. HotAssAlex

    HotAssAlex New Member

    Jan 20, 2004
    Staten Island, NY
    talking about keepers...Columbus also got 2 fairly great keepers. If Walker goes, maybe we should consider Matt Jordan
     
  17. Metrosuccess

    Metrosuccess Member

    Jan 6, 2000
    NJ
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Leaving Walker and Brenes off the protected list and keeping Lisi and T Bone on is hard for me to believe. When was the last time lisi played a full season without an ankle injury??? An injury list guy waiting to happen is how I see Mark at this point. Put Walker on a good team and he will be a star again like he was when he first came here. We have a bunch of whimps on the field at this time that allows him to get pummeled time and time again.
     
  18. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Please remember that Chivas is very high on Walker and we can pull one player back if someone on that team is chosen.

    I expect Walker and Vaca to be gone.

    No one is touching Wells (he's unprotected as a tactical move folks - Metro hasn't soured on him) or Regan or SGR. Please take Ziadie someone. Please

    The only bad scenario is if Brenes is tabbed first.

    It's not going to be a shake-up people.
     
  19. obie

    obie New Member

    Nov 18, 1998
    NY, NY
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again: we could leave unprotected one SI, so when we left out SGR we had to protect Bonseu.
     
  20. metrosct

    metrosct New Member

    Feb 17, 2002
    Rowayton, CT
    The Chivas owner also owns Saprissa of Costa Rica. Given that Brenes has played well for CR's U23 side, is inexpensive, and a left sided player, I think it is fairly certain that Chivas will focus on him. Given that there are so many keepers available, it doesn't make sense for them to pick Walker first. I think Brenes is more likely to be chosen than Vaca. He's cheaper and at this point may have more upside.

    Since we can only have 3 TI's on the roster, I guess we've committed to Gilberto and Glen. BB probably wants to leave the 3rd spot open to allow for some flexibility (if possible, I hope Brenes is pulled back).

    Summary SI's for next year:
    Galven Rey - Sold
    Bonseau - Green Card
    Guevara
    Taylor - I, too, hopes he sticks around. I think you could see an Eskandarian type 2nd season from him.

    That would leave 2 SI spots for BB to fill.
     
  21. Thomas A Fina

    Thomas A Fina Member

    Mar 29, 1999
    Hell
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When did they limit the # of TI's on a roster?(I mean there was what, a 25 man limit league wide, but nothing per team at last check.)
     
  22. metrosct

    metrosct New Member

    Feb 17, 2002
    Rowayton, CT
    New rule - all teams get 3 TI's and 4 SI's. Chivas and RSL will get 5 TI's for the next 2 seasons (and 4 SI's).

    While I like Leitch/Lisi, I think I would have left either of them unprotected and protected Brenes. Let's not be too quick to make final decisions on our TI's (Brenes, Glen and Taylor). They are all young players adjusting to a new league and country. All appeared to be quite skilled and I am expecting bigger things from them next year.
     
  23. Arisrules

    Arisrules Member

    Feb 19, 2000
    Washington, DC
    The ripping of Lisi as being injury prone is absurd. This was the first season that he was lost for the whole season. Look at his first three seasons.


    2003: A breakout year for Lisi, as he played in 24 games (20 starts), logging 4,423 minutes and scoring one goal and 11 assists for 13 points ... His 11 assists ranked him second in the league behind Kansas City's Preki (17) ... A two assist performance on 7/12 helped the Metros come back from a 3-0 deficit to tie New England 3-3 ... Lisi ended the season with assists in three straight games and a goal in the last game of the season for five points in three games ... Three times during the 2003 season Lisi registered three game assist streaks.

    2002: Totaled 23 games played (six starts) with two goals and one assist ... The five points (2G, 1A) all came as a Metro ... Started and played 75' in 3-2 loss to Columbus (7/31), firing two shots on goal ... Came on as a substitute (83') for Paule in 3-1 win at Kansas City and found Faria for the clinching goal in stoppage time ... Started and played 68 minutes in midfield in a 4-3 win over New England (7/20) ... Replaced injured Tab Ramos (43') and finished the match in a 3-2 win at Columbus (7/6) ... Came on as a substitute to score the clinching goal (85') in a 2-0 win over New England. (6/29) ... Came off the bench replacing Jeff Moore and played 20 minutes in 5-0 rout of Los Angeles. (6/15) ... Notched his first goal as a Metro on a header off a Tab Ramos corner kick in the 62' of the 4-2 loss at DC United (5/18) ... Recorded Metro debut as a 46' substitute for Ross Paule in the 2-1 road loss to San Jose (5/11) ... Acquired, along with defender Craig Ziadie, from DC United on May 9 in exchange for midfielder Petter Villegas and defender Orlando Perez.

    2001: Lisi led an impressive rookie corps at DC United in minutes played with 1,720 and tied Abdul Thompson Conteh for most appearances with 25 (23 starts) ... Versatility and attacking skills added a different dimension to United's midfield ... He finished third in scoring with 13 points on four goals and five assists ... He came on as a sub for Bobby Convey in the 80th minute to make his first professional appearance in the MLS season opener against Kansas City and scored the game-winning goal eight minutes later (4/7) ... He also posted another game-winning tally against Communicaciones in the F. C. Giants Cup semis on August 3.



    Look, the guy has played a TON of minutes over the years. It's not like we have a Tab here as you guys are painting him. That is absurd, and I don't know why everyone is repeating it. This past season he was injured, it happens to the best players.
     
  24. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    My thoughts on why Brenes was left unprotected. This smells like a behind the scenes deal, whereby Chivas will take J. Walker but in return for taking Walker, Metro need to leave a "quality" prospect unprotected. A Spanish-speaking Central American with potential would fit quite nice in the new LA outfit.

    For Metro, this will clear out a big dollar contract and allow them to move past Walker and keep what they have in tact.

    This is very similar to the NFL expansion draft with the Houston Texans a few years ago, the Jets, who had huge salary cap issues, left unprotected a young, inexpensive offensive lineman (many found questionable why he was on the list in the first place). In return the Texans took back two extremely large contracts from the Jets, and freed the Jets from a bad salary cap spot.

    The only risk, is having a second team involved in the draft, but with Chivas having the first pick, I'll bet Brenes will be #1 overall. The hedged bet is Utah probably won't risk taking a GK who just had major surgery, and if they do, no real loss for either team.
     
  25. cmonaco

    cmonaco New Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Montreal/NYC
    This theory makes a lot of sense when you think about it. But Walker should have more value that that. He shuoldn't have to be "unloaded" when a guy like Thornton (arguably his equal talent-wise) is being shopped around as a guy with significant trade value.

    But that may say more about the continuing incompetence of Metro when it comes to personnel moves than it does about the validity of this theory.

    Walker is gone one way or the other. If he were to come back, it'd be a Nomar situation where he will feel completely unwanted and pissed. We don't need that from a GK. The question is whether we get anything - even draft picks - in return for him.
     

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