Rebuilt Fire enters new era-Chicago Sun Times Suburban soccer: Burn 2nd MLS team to move-Dallas Morning News Wizards prepare for trip to South Africa-Kansas City Star On Soccer-LA Times Brown moves ahead-Boston Herald Aged Wantland intrigues MLS-The Oklahoman UCO rallies to bring Major League Soccer to Edmond-UCO Vista
This seems pretty steep as far as season tix goes: Did they set it anywhere near this high for the Fire and Fusion in '98? Heck, most MLS teams don't come close to 6,500. It would be great if they can do it though.
Re: Re: 2/3/03: Casts No Shadow I would hope they would get more than 8,000. If they can only get 8,000 when trying to show the MLS there is a market, what will they get when there is a team fighting to get above .500 in the middle of the summer, 4,000?
I was talking season tix commitments. 6,500 seems pretty high. Though I guess it's nice to set high goals. I think dcc134 misunderstood my post.
Re: Re: Re: Re: 2/3/03: Casts No Shadow I was talking about attendance, which was implied from the Lund quote. He seemed to suggest that a crowd of 8,000 at the game would be enough to then start to test the market for season tickets and sponsorship. As I said before, I would think MLS wants to see a crowd a bit bigger than that. But I could have misunderstood Lund's quote.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 2/3/03: Casts No Shadow I hear where youre coming from, but attendance of this amtch will not gauge season ticket interest, merely the pool of people that can be counted on to show some support for the new potential franchise. There is a big difference between a stand alone event like this and buying season tickets. Look at San Jose hosting the first match in MLS history, they sold the place out and haven't consistently drawn numbers like that. I think (in my less then professional opinion) that a crowd of 10k will warrant MLS looking further into Oklahoma.
Tulsa officials were quoted 7,500 from MLS. This has been ammended lately to read that a Tulsa proposal would need to "prove the ability to sell at least 7,500 season tickets." These varying figures from Hunt's people and MLS officials point to the success of Columbus' initial season ticket drive of over 10,000... It sounds like the bar has been set higher for small market teams. FYI, Tulsa was one of 18 finalists for an initial MLS franchise. A group that included former Roughnecks coach Charlie Mitchell could only gather deposits for just over 2,000 season tickets at that time. There were complaints from people who felt slighted at being left out of the process and officials at the Univ. of Tulsa refused to make any adjustments to Skelly Stadium (widening the field, natural grass surface).
I also question the validity of charging normal season ticket prices for what amounts to a pre-season exhibition game. I'm not saying they should charge $5 a seat, but somewhat less than a normal regular season ticket would seem appropriate to me.
<<<<<<<<<<<<Pulled from the article Lessons learned Burn officials believe lessons learned in Chicago and inherent differences will create a more seamless transition locally. "It was an adjustment for our fans," Fire general manager Peter Wilt said. "Just getting to a new stadium was an adjustment. The fan experience was an adjustment. But we created, to a large extent, a new fan base along the way." Indeed, sellout crowds of 15,000-plus became the norm. In terms of atmosphere, zealous fans close to the field and jammed into practically every seat were the stuff of MLS dreams. >>>>>>>>>> OK two things. The comment by Peter. Well see how much of a adjustment fans had to make by the amount of sellouts this year. I personally know 5 people from Chicago not renewing their season tickets this year!! Count em 5. Why?? Location location location!!!!! If they think, with this weakened team you will get those Chicagoans to make a trek out to the Naperville area when they stink up the field they will be in for some news. The teams management will also have to learn to make an adjustment this season. Dealing with selling a much weakened team in a difficult stadium to get to. Gone are the names Nowak, Stotichkov, Wolff, and the championship runs. Hope they have alot of give aways this year because you can forget about seing people put up with this traveling crap with a poor team. Secondly. Sellout the norm!? Folks we had 4 sellout outs last year!! That's it!! Four out of 14 regular season games and playoffs. The excuse last year was well it was last minute and sales staff didn't have time to plan....blah balh blah. I am sure the staff is hard at work coming up with this years excuse.., instead of selling tickets They can rent out ad space and put up the excuse on the sidelines. Naperville may prove itself a failure this year, especially if the team stinks up the field. Oh yeah and one more thing if the Fire and MLS think that filling that stadium with 15,000 soccer moms who sit on their hands is what is considered a great crowd and a MLS dream come true I would rather watch Division III Croatian soccer with 1000 of their fans because of the enthusiasm.
Re: Re: Re: 2/3/03: Casts No Shadow While it's all they have to go on, 8000 for such a match probably isn't that bad. Most Open Cup matches are well below that, and they are "somewhat meaningful". I'm looking forward to seeing the Revs in the CCC, but I wonder how many people will attend something like that.
I agree. If want to test the potential market, you need to test that market with as many constant variables as possible. The fact this is a one time match already biases the data to the high side. Pricing the match appropriately at least match the attendance figure somewhat projectable.
Yeah, but they are supposedly marketing the ************ out of this as opportunity to show your support for an MLS franchise in Edmond. Getting only 8,000 to the match tells me there isn't much support. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a team in OKC and I think the smaller markets will be good for the MLS in the long run, but we already had to contract teams that bearly drew 10,000 a game. Cities like Houston and Philly would easily average that number.
If their teams were run competently. If not, they could have attendances as bad as the Fusion's. Conversely, if the Fusion had been run properly, they would've done much better than they did. As it was, they were a case study in "How Not to Run a Sports Team."
Burn opens Preseason Camp - Dallas Morning News For U.S. Team, Critics watching closely against Argentina - Hartford Courant
Attendance not the only factor in determining an MLS franchise. If OKC can get about 12,000 a game average (not unheard of in MLS people) where Philly could get 16,000, that would make Philly look better. But if OKC has their own stadium and thus control the revenue streams while Philly plays in an NFL stadium and gets a crap deal (such as the old Fire deal or the Metrostars deal) then OKC would probably make more money for MLS, which is the biggest factor. There is a lot to determine a expansion team, and the attendance at one game should not be the major factor.
Alright, I think we're ignoring the 900 lb gorilla here: a brand new stadium. Look at the pix of Wantland now. Get a crowd of 8K, many having to sit in the grassy knoll (I hear you can get a better shot... er, view of the Burn's bench from the book depository) would be a good crowd for that facility. Look at the attendances at Invesco and Razor this year. Heck, look at the success of Crew Stadium and what we presume will be the success of a SSS at LA. I'd betcha the Fire gets a nice "bump" when they return to the new Soldier Field. more NASL stuff A 1977 NASL exhibition game in Tulsa drew over 10K... that facilitated the move of Team Hawaii to Skelly Stadium. Tulsa drew over 11K per game in '78 with a .500 team... due to good marketing, solid ownership, and a good local tv/radio package, attendance increased almost 5K per game in '79 and another 3K in '80 (reaching a peak of 19,787 per game that year). That was achieved while franchises in Houston and Philly were floundering with average attendances at the Astrodome and Veterans Stadium that never rose above 8,250 per game for THE SAME THREE SEASONS. What can we learn from these 20 year old statistics, boys and girls? (other than USRufnex has an unhealthy fetish towards the NASL?)... Committed local ownership/marketing in a small market can be more effective and successful than bad ownership/no ownership/poor marketing in a large market. Just compare the market savvy success of the NASL's Tampa Bay Rowdies ("Soccer is a kick in the grass") to the league-run Mutiny (did they even have a slogan?)