Post-match: 2/11, WCQ: USA v Mexico, general post-match discussion {R}

Terrazas:

 

That or "culturally sanctioned douchebaggery"

 

I get the words but am losing the meaning.

Sven: "Trust me, I'm a coach with heart."

Angry Mexicans: "Oh yeah? Well, we're a people with three times as much heart."

Not getting it. Am I missing wordplay or some event they're referencing?

 

Ever watch that Seinfeld episode where Elaine tries to figure out the meaning of a cartoon that appears in The New Yorker?

 

A play on the nickname "El Tri"?

 

If anyone isn't convinced of Rafa's red card at this point, that first replay from that angle is stunning. No question.

And if Gio were to just get up and keep playing instead of staying on the ground crying from what he thought was a penalty, he would have scored.

Great camera work from TV Azteca by the way. I love the way they have one camera hold on a player after he makes a pass or takes a shot. They always get the good bits from that, like a player's reaction or a late foul. ESPN ought to take notes.

 

batres was in excellent position to see what marquez did...

next voodoo ad gimmick with be a doll of sge...

 

OK, that looks like a penalty. But the look on his face! LOL.

 

From what I saw, and in watching the repeat broadcast, it appeared that Dos Santos was going down before any contact by Pearce and was trying to slide to make contact with the ball. As he goes down, Pearce does as well, and there's obvious contact, but I'm not sure it really interfered with what the offensive player was trying to do.

Whether that gets called, in my view, really depends on where the referee is positioned and how clear a view he has. From a distance, or if his view is blocked, he's likely to call that as if it was Pearce that forced him down. A clearer view and he may see it as I described.

What's also clear is that Heath was beat on the play and that Dos Santos needs to realize that he's not getting the call and the play is still very much alive.

Objectively, called or not called, I'd have no issue if the referee called it either way. As a USMNT supporter, I'm glad he saw what I think is the reality of the play.....

 

It's a tough call to make, especially during live action, where the play resembled a 50/50 battle followed by the attacking player going for a lunging strike on the ball. I admit it could be called different way in a different game, though.

Regardless, anytime a result is dependent on a PK, the team in question probably didn't do its job. Mexico's bigger concern in that game was an inability to finish when it mattered. You can't squander chances like that one Howard saved early on and expect to walk away with the points.

 

It's a PK.

ESPNDeportes showed numerous replays and you can clearly see that Gio was in front of Pearce looking to play the ball while Pearce was more concerned with grabbing Gio and pulling him down as the picture clearly shows.

If that's not a PK, I don't know what is.

 

I don't think there's any disagreement that Gio was in front of Pearce, that he was looking to play the ball, and that Pearce was more concerned with playing him than he was the ball.

That said, I think there is plenty of room for interpretation about whether Dos Santos was pulled down, or whether he was sliding to try to make a play on a ball coming in low. If Dos Santos goes down by choice, that makes calling the subsequent physicality on the play a tough call to make.....

 

Looked to me like GDS went down to try to play the ball, Pearce slid in behind him, and they were both grabbing each other to try to maintain balance. Either way, GDS was likely offside anyway.

 

I wanted to post a more general analysis of the game, but I've been traveling the last two days (and probably shouldn't have bothered posting regarding that non-call on Dos Santos). So... more general thoughts (some of which have already been expressed by others)

For those of you who say there has been no progress for the USMNT because we always beat Mexico... go back and watch our games against Mexico over the last eight years: Up until the 2007 Gold Cup final every victory that we have had against exico has involved us sitting back in a defensive shell and absorbing waves of attacks. We then score an opportunistic goal ( ussually on a set piece) against the run of play and then absorb an even more frantic attack from Mexico, holding on for the win. Basically we have always conceded that Mexico was the better team, and we beat them with discipline and fitness.

In the second half of the 2007 Gold Cup, we came out and played end-to-end with Mexico. The had the better of the run-of-play, but we finished our chances and were able to win (you can watch the most of the second half here: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jucdZivAaGY"]YouTube - Mexico Vs USA[/ame]).

In the friendly last year, we came out and played end-to-end with Mexico the entire match. Mexico had the better of play once again, but it was more even, and we managed to get a 2-2 draw.

In Wednesday's game, we came out and played end-to-end with Mexico again, and it was a very even match. I think we even had a slight advantage in posession and I thought our chances were a little more dangerous. However, this was the first time in a competitive match that I have seen us come out with the belief that our skills matched up to theirs. We still won because of our discipline, but our combination play through the midfield matched theirs, which has never happened before.

Caveates:
Mexico was missing a number of key players
The conditions did not favor skill players
We had the biggest homefield advantage that we'll ever have
We did not play our best match
We did not "dominate" the match
We not a top 15 team in the world

However, those of you saying that this match represents a complete lack of progress for the US are wrong. Go back and watch our earlier matches. Hell, watch the 2007 Gold Cup Final. Our game-plan has gone from a defensive shell, to playing straight-up. Our ability to make that change shows a maturity and development in both our players and our program.

It's OK to be happy about that (voros)

Sorry for the long post.

 

It's true. What impressed me most about our play was the passing game. My biggest critique of U.S. soccer has been our lack of creativity in midfield. But if you look at the way Bradley and Beasley played and the way the midfield moved the ball around in general, it shows we may be on our way to clearing this hurdle as well.

That said, we did get lucky and Pearce and Boca did not play well at all. There were other weak points (Kljestan? Hello? Nice of you to show up, but you're supposed to get involved in the game, not watch). And the deciding goal was scored from a corner kick. And Mexico appears a lot weaker than usual. But still, I'm hopeful for the future.

 

I agree with you, you don't know what is.

 

That's not a penality and Gio plays in the EPL, one of the most physical leagues in the world, the ref would be having a laugh.

 

Thanks for agreeing with me.

That picture says it all, Pierce pulling Gio down with both hands in the box.

You can sugarcoat it all you want but most people would agree that pulling someone down in the box is a PK.

Only people arguing against it are US fans, of course.

 

Pearce is trying to hold him up. Gio is a diving girl who's career peaked with his U-17 Tin Cup

 

Actually, what the picture shows is a sliding Gio, his left arm extended into the abdomen of Heath Pearce, and Pearce has that arm wrapped.

To suggest that Pearce pulled him down is actually a bit of an insult to Dos Santos, as the ball was coming in so low that a sliding attempt at the ball was the only play he had on the ball. He doesn't make that ball on his feet and he certainly doesn't get that low with a header. He wanted to and needed to get down for that entrance pass.

Again, any call would be based on what you see Pearce doing with the arm, not with any perceived "take down" as that call would have to ignore what in all likelihood is true - Dos Santos was intending to slide. As for wrapping the arm like that in the box, some would call it, others wouldn't. But it's by no means a clear PK on such a play......

 

And all the Serbian, Tongan and Congan fans posting here agree with you?

I await your polling of all the non-US, non-Mexico fans on this.

The picture proves nothing at all. Pearce could be pulling Gio's fist off his oysters for all we know. The video of the actual play shows enough that I think a ref could have a called a penalty - it is never good for a defender to come in behind and below a player, even the other player has gone to ground of their own effort. But the video angles also show enough that I believe a goodly number of good refs would have waved play on.

And the idea that that "non call" was the "turning point" is pretty silly too. As if Rafa would have suddenly developed a soul due to his side being awarded a PK. What is it with that guy? The header on Cobi was one of the most disturbing things I've seen in soccer west of Keane. And now this. That was such a p**ssy play. And then someone slaps Frankie? Seriously, what is going on with the Mexican side? It's very confusing. Heck, remember when El Blondo took a whack at Sanneh nuts? That's freaking crazy on a number of levels.

How long do you think Marquez deserves to be suspended for?

 

Actually this got me thinking. I don't recall Marquez doing dumb sh*t in Barcelona. I had a quick look at his stats and although he does get his fair share of cards, I don't recall Rafa doing blatant, over-the-top fouls like he did with Cobi or Howard. Why is that? Is it because Mexico knows they need him? Because Rafa knows Barcelona won't stand for it? It doesn't exactly just stay with the US team. I remember he was carded in 2005 vs Argentina.

Thoughts ??

 

C'mon, he pulled him down and I've seen PKs called for less than that.

As for Marquez, he can stay in Barcelona for all I care, the guy has no excuse for doing that shit.

I don't particularly care if he apologizes a thousand times or if he didn't mean to cleat Howard in the thigh and was going for the ball.

A guy with that much experience should know not to challenge for a ball like that.

The Mexican team is in a transition process and we don't trust young players as much as the US does. Then again, the US has a surplus of quality young players at key positions and Bradley has done a good job at blooding them in.

Mexico is depending on guys like Pardo, Sanchez, and Marquez who for the most part, are well past their prime.

It also goes without saying that the Mexican national team is nothing more than a collection of individual talent that cannot play as a team which is something that the US does very well and is, IMO, a very admirable trait.

 

how dan loney of you.

Maybe he can learn from emotionally repressed "bloggers" like you and start up his blogging career like Freddy Adu.

We're looking for a web designer at my firm, you think Freddy is interested?