I read the fantastic interview with Reyna on USsoccer.com and he says that he feels that talent wise the 1998 team was superior to the 2002 team and I was wondering what everyone's opinion was on that. Obviously the 2002 team was a better TEAM but how does everyone assess the talent levels of the two sides? Mike
He echoed what Brad Friedel said in "Our Way", which was if my memory serves correctly "We may have had from top to bottom, a little bit better player in 1998, but as a team it isn't close." This can be debated, I don't believe that the team in '98 was more talented than the team in '02, maybe we just didn't see it because the team cohesion was non-existent.
Hey, they *were* the two guys on the field with the two teams. I think 2002 was more talented, but I didn't play with them. Maybe we just didn't see it because, as Davids said, team cohesion was non-existant.
On both teams and moved closer to peak age between cups: Brad Friedel 27 to 31 (GK's peaks are a bit older) Kasey Keller 28 to 32 Frankie Hedjuk 23 to 27 Brian McBride 25 to 29 Claudia Reyna 24 to 28 Eddie Pope 24 to 28 On both teams and moved beyond peak age between cups: Cobi Jone 27 to 31 Ernie Stewart 29 to 33 Jeff Agoos 30 to 34 David Regis 29 to 33 Joe-Max Moore 27 to 31 '98 World Cup only Juergen Sommer 29 Alexi Lalas 28 Macelo Balboa 29 Mike Burns 27 Thomas Dooley 37 Tab Ramos 31 Chad Deering 27 Preki Radosavljevic 34 Brian Maisonneuve 24 Eric Wynalda 29 Roy Wegerle 34 '02 World Cup only Tony Meola Gregg Berhalter Carlos Llamosa Steve Cherundolo Tony Sanneh Pablo Mastroeni Eddie Lewis John O'Brien DaMarcus Beasley Clint Mathis Josh Wolff Landon Donovan Draw your own conclusions.
I think the 02 team was better talent wise too.Beez and Landon had no counterpart in 98.Pope, Reyna and McBride were more seasoned but still at their best. Sanneh was in form, to say the least.Ok, Agoos had fallen apart.
I have to disagree on peak age. More and more, we are seeing the peak age extend to 32-33 years old, especially as advancements are made in Sports Medicine and training techniques. This is why I think a guy like Claudio Reyna will be at the end of his peak in 06, and still be a valuable part of the team, if not an integral one. As for which team had more talent, I am not sure why this is even a question. Reyna was not nearly the player in 98 he was in 02. It wasn't even close. His time at Rangers really matured and developed him into the player he became. Friedel and Keller were both significantly better in 02 than 98. As was Stewart. As was Cobi. As was Eddie, and as was McBride. As has been said, there were no counterparts on the 98 team to 02s Donovan and DMB - but MOST importantly, there was no counterpart to John O'brien on the 98 team. Dooley and Agoos were actually quite comparable. The rest of the defense is an easy nod to 02. Sanneh was the best right back in the entire 02 World Cup. I really believe that. Frankie was rock solid, but he was a great performer in 98, too. Preki and Mathis actually played similar roles, and Mathis was better. No question. Ramos was coming off an injury and was nowhere close to 100%. Mais and Deering were late 98 additions who were way over their heads, compared to Pablo who was a late 02 addition who started in the only games the US won. Lalas and Balboa got jobbed, but they were actually comparable to Berhalter and Llamosa. I'd say that the 02 defensive backups get the nod, but this is one area that is VERY debateable. As for offensive options, I would take 02 Wolff, McBride, Mathis, and Donovan any day of the week over the 98 group.
it's very interesting that this is what Reyna himself has said. obviously, he is in a much more informed position than all of us are. on paper, i think it obviously seems like the 2002 team is MILES above the 1998 squad in talent. of course, the vast difference in results for the two teams probably sways everyone's opinions. wasn't Brian McBride the youngest player on the 1998 team? or maybe it was Frankie (i could just look at a previous post, but too lazy). the level of YOUNG talent on the 2002 team absolutely DWARFS the 98 squad. not even close at all. maybe Reyna thinks the veteran talent on 98 outweighed the 2002 veterans. i don't see it...but i wasn't on both teams like he was i agree about Reyna himself being way better in 2002. and Deering/Mais vs. O'Brien/Mastro seems a silly comparison as well.
Is it possible that the lows were not quite so low in '98? That the talent bar was higher? I think there were some guys on the 2002 team who weren't skilled enough soccer players to make the '98 team given Sampson's criteria, but Bruce valued their athleticism over their skill. We aren't able to separate our overall player assessments from their respective world cup performances. IMO Sanneh is a rotten player who had a supreme World Cup. Balboa stands head and shoulders above Berhalter and Llamosa in the skill department. Mais '98 and Pablo 2002 would be comparable, but for the underachievement of one team and the over achivement of the other. Dooley '98 and Agoos 2002: in both cases we built our defense around guys who were too old, but I don't think anyone would dare to compare them at their respective peaks, really. (Now, for those of you who aren't real quick, this post is not a criticism of Bruce, all right?)
I don't think the '98 team was as bad as the results indicated. If we're bitching about counterattacking and bunkering, that's all the Iranians did in that one. How many times did we hit the post in that game? We just simply could not finish... The team chemistry sucked though, and everything came apart after that game. Imagine if we would have won that one? We would have had a nice surge of confidence going into Yugoslavia..... Having said that, I still think the 2002 team was more talented. Lewis had no counterpart in '98 IIRC, nor did Beasley, Donovan, O'Brien, and Sanneh. From top to bottom, we had a much more complete team. Just imagine if we can find some good outside backs and a right mid for the next WC.....
it's not even close - 2002 by a landslide. the key points have been made - JOB, Landon, and DaMarcus were huge step up, and Reyna, McBride, Friedel, and Pope were better, more seasoned players in '02 than '98. obviously, there is the Agoos factor, but it isn't anywhere near big enough to overcome all of the improvement. and, the bench in '02 also was significantly improved. i'm glad Reyna is talking about coming back in '06, and won't begin to speculate on whether he plays on the right or the middle, but if he really meant what he said, he needs to recognize that his strength is as a player, not a judge of talent.
I don't agree that this is so automatically linked to age. and, I certainly wouldn't count the guys in the top group out of '06. that said, i generally agree with the split of players who were better in '02 (top group) and those who were better in '98 (bottom group). and, again, we're talking about overall talent, not necessarily how they performed in the Cups themselves.
Well, I wouldnt say performance is directly tied to age either, I just used that as one quick way to compare.
The 1998 team had many players who should not be on the team. They had either past their prime or not ready on that level. Examples? Lalas, Burns, Wegerle, Maisonneuve, and Dooring. Wynalda and Dooley could also make the list. Regis and Agoos were the only weak links on the 2002 team.
From the stand point of a fan there is no way we can look at the 98 team being better in any way. I respect the opinion of the players that were on both teams but I have to say 2002 was better. We came out and attacked Portugal. We took them on like we belonged. The 98 team never went after anybody and never looked good. 98 would never dream of going after Portugal or anyone else. The one and only reason to see the 98 team as better talent wise could be the coach. If the 98 team did have better talent then Sampson takes the credit for that atrocity. Maybe that is the hidden message from Reyna and Friedel.
I think it comes down more to the philosophy that each coach had in bringing in players. While I don't exactly have the stats but I feel like Bruce had looked at a ton more players than Sampson and that he also brought them in a lot earlier. This enabled guys like Landon, DMB, and Pablo to get more action in somewhat important matches like the Gold Cup. Maybe it is just due to the way that the schedule fell and there was the opportunity to bring a nearly all MLS squad to a regional FIFA tournament. Sampson brought in guys like Mason, Deering, and Wagner who were playing internationally because he doubted the players being developed early on in MLS. Arena on the other hand stated at his opening press conference "I really believe in the ability of the American player" indirectly indicating his faith in MLS. Top to bottom I would argue that the 2002 squad was better, but perhaps that the starting 11 from 98 could win. One thing I did notice was that the left sided players on 02 were phenomenal and rather influential in the results (O'Brien, Beasley, and Lewis) while Jones patrolled the left flank for the 98 squad. Starting 11 for 98 - (3-5-2) Keller, Dooley, Pope, Regis, Hejduk, Mais, Reyna, Ramos, Jones, McBride and Wynalda. Starting 11 for 02 - (4-4-2) Friedel, Sanneh, Pope, Berhalter, Hejduk, Reyna, Stewart, Mastroeni, Beasley, Donovan, and McBride. Reyna, McBride, Pope and Hejduk starters for both squads.
I can understand why Claudio might say what he did. If you looked purely at soccer technique and soccer skills, it's arguable that the '98 team was a better group. Tab Ramos, for a little while more anyway, is arguable the greatest American player ever. Reyna at 24 was then the SECOND greatest American player ever. Wegerle was an elegant player in his time. Balboa and Wynalda were incredibly skilled players, as was Dooley. But a combination of age, bad team chemistry, awful coaching doomed this group. Meanwhile, I remain convinced the international game has changed. It is now a game where athleticism, fitness, defensive pressure, speed, and youth trump technique, experience, age, and skill. That's not to say players can be devoid of skill -- far from it. Nor can you have an ENTIRE team of players who are more athletes than players. It's just that unless ALL of your players have incredibly high work rates, can play at a 100 mph pace all game long -- the ones with beautiful technique, as well as the ones who are technically challenged -- you are in trouble. Big trouble. This is why Frankie Hejduk has been an impact player for us at two world cups, and maybe a third. There's room at the inn for guys like Frankie.
I think Reyna may have accidentally inhaled some wet paint on the way to that interview. Sampson wanted to live vicariously through players, so he included as many over the hill guys as possible. I mean some of those guys had no business of being on an MLS roster, let alone playing for the U.S. national team(like Wegerle). Also he was aroused by some players just because they were able to hang in the third divisions of Germany and England. He included very few promising young players and very few from MLS. That was probably around our 3rd best team at the time that could have been put out on the field. In 2002, Arena did the job and put out nearly the best team he could find, and it showed. In reality, Reyna is probably trying to disassociate himself from failure.