1989-2014 FWCC: Ajax 94-95 vs Manchester United 98-99 (2nd rd - Neutral Venue)

Round: 2nd
Venue: Juventus Stadium, Turin
Rules: 90 minutes, followed if necessary by extra-time (original rules with multiple goals possible in 30 minutes) and then if the scores are still tied a penalty shoot-out

* Note - If you think the game will go to extra-time please choose that option (at the bottom end of the poll) and then you can say what you would choose for the score at full-time in normal time/90 minutes in the thread, as well as give details of how you'd see extra-time going


Line-ups: (diagrams in following posts)

Ajax 94-95 - Edwin van der Sar; Michael Reiziger, Danny Blind, Frank de Boer; Frank Rijkaard; Ronald de Boer, Clarence Seedorf; Jari Litmanen; Finidi George, Patrick Kluivert, Marc Overmars.

Manchester United 98-99 - Peter Schmeichel; Gary Neville, Ronny Johnsen, Jaap Stam, Denis Irwin; David Beckham, Roy Keane, Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs; Andy Cole, Dwight Yorke.


Voting deadline - 8th May 2015 (1 week from now)

Main thread:
http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/1989-2014-fantasy-world-club-cup.2012816/page-22

Feel free to discuss the match and how you think it would play out, and then after you vote for a scoreline feel free to provide reasoning.

If considering substitutions, please check the players were at the club in the relevant season and then you are free to consider 3 substitutions selected from the whole squad for each team, in the scenario you envisage

 

Ajax 94-95 line-up:

 

Manchester United 98-99 line-up:

 

Quick explanation of my penalties vote here (as with other games I'll give more detailed thoughts behind the vote at a later time - anyone is free to do that ofc and it does enhance the thread, but it's still not mandatory and all votes are definitely welcome)

I'm seeing it going to penalties after a game where both teams have their moments of success in attack, but neither is in charge of the whole game I think. I'll say 2-2 after normal time and no more goals in extra-time.

 

Thanks for these votes and comments you're getting in Estel.

My reasoning will be somewhat similar I think (maybe with the addition of Ajax having a bit more of the ball, while United make passes but are a bit more direct so that Ajax aren't deprived of the ball for long spells at any stage - they would have to contend with some pressure on their defence though I'm sure and would probably find Keane keen to snap into challenges to break up their passing spells and/or counter-attacks!). I'm going for United to hang in there, and then get a late-ish equaliser though as was their speciality (so I've been saying it a few times for their fantasy games be it for this side or the 07-08 one); and so take it all the way to penalties.

 

Thanks for the vote Puck mate.

I can certainly see what you mean with Ajax being able to play for a 1-0 (despite being a free-playing team too) which is an impressive quality considering the bold formation (a formation well known in the Netherlands though, and they had to it off to a tee in a defensive sense I think - with the good use of the full backs as general defenders). My vote is I suppose an Ajax one too (but will possibly hold less sway unless extra-time/penalties become a factor) but I was swayed by the United team having goals in it as people say (not a lot of teams kept them scoreless). I think it'd certainly be an interesting and probably entertaining match-up and I can understand how the votes might be quite spread on this one (even trying to take bias, or let's say familiarity although both teams are well known and were widely viewed I think, out of it).

Yeah, I don't think I would say this was Giggs's best season although he did come up with the spectacular goal in the FA Cup semi-final. I think Reiziger would at least have a busy day, but on the other hand there is a big pace differential between Overmars and G.Neville and the Dutchman might well make some good use of that.

 

Having said that (and without double-checking) I think as things stand my vote would indeed decide things in favour of Ajax in a penalty shoot-out! Extra-time seems reasonably likely anyway already (but that could change if there aren't many people actually choosing that scenario and leaving one team or other more of a chance to edge it inside 90 minutes).

 

Ajax have just started to edge it now it seems, but anyway here are the rest of my thoughts in addition to what I already scattered in the thread:

My 2-2 inside 90 minutes vote is based on Ajax's probably getting a bit of an upper hand including in the scoreline, but United never being out of the game and finding goals (I'm probably thinking two equalisers, but anyway not to be 2-0 behind because in that scenario, and with Ajax capable of scoring more, I would not think United would be very likely to come back against this Ajax team). Maybe some good moves and efforts from both teams early on before Ajax start to emerge with the upper hand in the middle of the 90 minutes.

I think no goals in extra-time could be feasible because both sides will have played an energetic 90 minutes and though that could lead to a mistake or two, maybe the tempo dips a bit and less gets created. Then United have Schmeichel in goal of course, but I could see both keepers making a save or two in the shoot-out, with van der Sar's long arms also difficult to find a way past. So maybe the shoot-out could go on a while, with a couple of misses/saves each but I'm thinking Ajax players might calmly finish things off, while a United centre-back misses - could be Stam with another powerful effort that rises too high into orbit, or perhaps van der Sar palms away a sidefoot by Johnsen.

 

Thanks Puck. Yeah, tbh I didn't check who had kept them scoreless that season and was going from memory but yeah Arsenal and Chelsea doing it twice (although Arsenal didn't do it again in that FA Cup semi-final) does confirm it's not impossible and I do think a 1-0 to Ajax is very possible/feasible, especially if they get ahead and then stem any United attempts to up their tempo in response (but obviously we're all just picking out one scoreline we think could happen, and we might bet on as much as any other).

The memory of clean sheets against United was probably over-written by those 8 goals they scored against Forest in Nottingham though lol.

 

On that point of players raised within own system too, these two are examples of clubs using that policy to their benefit the most in the 90's I suppose. 4 players in United's starting XI, and without checking the details properly I'd think I can say more than that for Ajax (and that particularly helped them with the familiarity and playing style I would say).

 

I think I do have a vague memory of that Newcastle game if it was a 0-0 at Old Trafford though. Indeed surprising to find out that they hadn't scored IIRC.

 

Result
Ajax 94-95 2-1 Manchester United 98-99