Just looking at the Pope/Moreno/Williams to metros for Petke/#5 pick/allocation deal causes me to remember.. cue swirling visuals that always accompany time travel ---1976! In 76 we had two teams that were at the philosophical poles in terms of building a pennant winner in baseball. The Orioles (AKA the good guys) were a cash-strapped, small market team (as they hadn't figured out yet how to tap into the DC market. DC locals still were thinking they'd be getting their third franchise in 16 years back then- losers!) This was also the time when the "O!" first started to be heard during the national anthem and Wild Bill Hagy was just starting to spell out "ORIOLES" in the right field upper deck stands. However the O's had an ace up their sleeve in Earl Weaver. IMO, the best coach this century in any sport was Earl. Arena has a way to go to match his genius, though he has a chance. The Yankees? Steinbrenner was just beginning to show that he knew how to use the newly concocted free agency rules better than anyone. This was classic David vs Golliath stuff here with the O's trying anything to stay competitive. Hence the trade: To the Orioles: Tippy Martinez, Rudy May, Rick Dempsey, and Dave Pagan To the Yankees: Doyle Alexander, Ken Holtzman, and Grant Jackson. This was a huge trade and happened early during the season. Who won this trade? In the short term, it was a wash; in the long term, the Orioles: Both Alexander and Jackson would leave via free agency after the year. Holtzman was just starting into his downward spiral to retirement though no one knew that yet. However all three pitchers played well for the Yankees, with reliever Jackson going 6-0. For the O's, reliever Martinez and starter May played well. Pagan was a throw-in and this trade was his biggest claim to fame. Dempsey, of course, became the Orioles everyday catcher for years as he and Martinez were mainstays on the good 77-83 Orioles teams. To be fair to the yankees, Dempsey was expendable as they had Thurman Munson as their starting catcher and he was looking at a probable hall of fame career. They didn't know that he'd die in an airplane accident in 79. Rudy May soon faded though he contributed more than Holtzman did for the the rest of their careers.
...but then the Yankees nabbed Reggie Jackson out from under the Orioles that winter and the rest is history.
I remember all those guys except...Dave Pagan. Doesn't ring a bell. And didn't Paul Blair go back and forth between those teams around that time? I think I used to have '77 baseball cards of him playing for both teams. This of course, has very little do with DCUnited.
Blair came to the Yanks in 1977 when Al Bumbry took over as the starting CF. As a footnote, he was the guy Billy sent out to replace Reggie at Fenway, nearly causing a dugout brawl on national television. Pagan's lifetime stats: http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/paganda01.shtml
Off-topic threads, use of the "Cartographer" nickname, someone is betting the bank Rev doesn't check these boards while he's away.
It's the Egg Nog. Time for some BS rioting! Yeah, I think that Reggie's year with the Orioles might have been his best ever- an amazing second half of the season. What's interesting is how fast the biggest names in the trade declined in ability so fast, especially Holtzman. Clearly Weaver traded him at the right time. Thinking that way, this trade is another example of the wisom of trading guys at or just past their peak. Hopefully Moreno will fit that description and hopefully Pope will never quite duplicate his years with us, though I wish him well.
Hey dude - I live in Alex. too, and I was wondering if you really did still have Paul Blair's cards? I wouldn't mind buying them off of you if you still had them. Yeah, Blair was traded to NY in '77 - Earl wanted give him one decent contract before he retired, he said. He's got to be my all-time favorite athlete. I'm an old centerfielder. Thanks
The day the Baltimore Bullets traded Earl "the Pearl" Monroe to the New York Knicks,my faith and allegiance to the NBA were shot. My heart was ripped out,never to recover..........
As someone with their own bitter memories of the 76-79 period (I'm a Royals' fan), I find it preposterous that anyone can honestly claim the O's "won" the trade. The Yankees went to 4 World Series in 76-81 and won two of them. The Orioles went twice in the longer 76-83 term, only winning once. Latin American nations may have their sub-campeone, but in American we only have first losers.
As a Yankees fan, I was originally going to play that card, but the truth is that only Grant Jackson did anything noteworthy during the season, and was not particularly good in the playoffs or World Series. As ursula pointed out, all three of them were gone pretty quickly, so their impact on the great Yankees teams was minimal, unless they were traded for somebody good (and I can't recall if they were). Martinez and Dempsey went on to long, productive careers with the Os. Dempsey might not have been a great hitter, but he wonderfully handled probably the most consistent pitching staffs of the 1976-1985 period. While the Yanks may have been a better team in that period (5 AL East, 4 ALCS, 2 WS compared to 2 AL East, 2 ALCS, 1 WS), the Orioles clearly got the better of that trade. Dave
Yeah, but that's a loser's perspective. Moral victories and all. At the end of the day it all comes down to titles, pennants, and rings. Thank god for Don Denkinger, George Brett, Frank White, and Brett Saberhagen!
Correct, which is why the signing of Reggie Jackson turned out to be more important than the trade. Dave
One other NY-Washington trade I can remember was back in the fall of '86 the Caps sent disgruntled center Bobby Carpenter to the Rangers for Mike Ridley, Kelly Miller and a throw in. Ridley and Miller were key members of the Caps for a long time and Carpenter became an NHL journeyman. Bill-DC