150 miles rule between two teams (Cosmos vs MetroStars) My friend and I got into a debate about the news that Pele wants to bring Cosmos team back into the New York area. My friends says the only way that Pele would be able to have a team in the New York area is to have the NY/NJ MetroStars moved out of Giants Stadium and be places an area 150 Miles from where the Major League Soccer or Pele wants to put the New York Cosmos team. He said that there is a rule in US Soccer & MLS that state two soccer team cannot be places in the same metropolitan area without a distance of 150 miles of each other’s. I said, I have never heard of such a Soccer rule because in other sports in the New York Metropolitan area this rule does not apply. For example: the 150 miles rule does not apply in baseball because there is two baseball team (Yankees playing in the Bronx & Mets playing in Queens) in New York that is playing less than 150 miles from one another. In basketball your have two teams (Knicks & Nets), Hockey you have three team (Rangers, Islanders & Devils), Football you have two teams (Giants & Jets) sharing a stadium – Giants Stadium and they all play in the metropolitan area less than 150 miles from each other sports. To settle this debate my question for the forum is this: Is there a rule in US Soccer that state two teams must be places within 150 miles from each other town or cities or county? Second, if there is such a rule – Why? Because with the population of New York area estimated at 8 to 12 million peoples (especially with a large immigrant population) you could concede that the metropolitan area is capable of supporting two soccer teams. You could also apply the same two-soccer team’s theory in Los Angeles with its huge populations. Why would US Soccer & MLS have such a rule (If there were such a rule)? Thanks
There isnt a rule like that. Having said that AEG does have an agreement with MLS(pratically itself) that it has exclusive rights to the second team in NY. So if there is a team anywhere with in 150 miles from NYC it will be ran and operated by AEG. The only way Pele can get a team here is if he buys out those rights from AEG(probably for more money that Pele can come up with), or partner with AEG. If there was to be a team probably the latter will happen. Even if they do get a team, theres still no place to play and if there was a feasible place the Metros would be playing there right now. Money isnt being given out for ANY stadiums in NYC specially since its in a BILLION dollar debt. And if AEG cant get it done with all its money and resourses how the hell would Pele? Not even the Jets or the Olympic commitee cant get a stadium built. The only reason the Olympics were even considered its because of the $$ and because of the rebuilding it will do in LIC.
>>Does anybody think this area could support two teams, that's the real question. >> Sure. There are 20 Million people in the NY NJ Metro area.... Some MLS teams have MUCH MUCH less than that. What does Colombus area have? 2 Million?
Then with 20 million people in NY/NJ area you would expect the Metros would fully sell-out ALL their games, no?? I mean, if one team can't even fill half the stadium, I fail to see how a 2nd team will prosper.
I seem to remember that originally the group running the MetroStars had this sort of veto power for any expansion team that might infringe up the NY market. But now that they're gone I suspect this sort of veto potential is no longer the case.
Except it still is. When AEG bought the team they also bought the rights. The problem is knowing the area. Yes theres 20M people(thats the whole tri state not just NYC), but really only the part that lives in NJ goes to the stadium the NYC side is a very small amount Id say about only 20% of the whole attendance. Theres easily another 15M people waiting for team on the other side of the Hudson. People who cant make it out to GS, or dont think its worth it, since tolls can run you up$6 and UP depending on where you live and that's even BEFORE you get to the stadium. Then there's the traffic issue and finally the Metros and MLS dont neccessarily make it worth your time. SO unless youre a hardcorefan willing to stick it out and have enough time and money in your life, you are probably arent going to make many games in GS. Add that to the fact that there is no way of getting to the stadium from NJ unless you own a car. I mean look at me I can see the freaking stadium from my house but the fact that theres a river between us means I have to go all the way out to NYC then BACK to NJ just to go about 1/2 mile. So if you add all the hassles of getting to the stadium, PLUS the fact that MLS as a product is SUB PAR, then you have people who only go once or twice a year if that many times. Its not worth it to them. They'd rather take the $100 they were gunna spend on theit family and go to a movie and not deal with all the crap. Thats why when teams like REAL and ROMA come to town you have crowds of 70,000. Cause they are willing to put up with all the crap for quality players, even tho is a meaningless international. A 2nd team in NY in the same building wouldnt do any better even with the name Cosmos, because its still the same crappy league with its circus rules and the same sh!tty hassles. But if you put that same team in a new building(which aint happening) on the other side of the Hudson you'll average just as much as Metro or MORE. Heck if Metro stays in NJ and just moves to a better spot it can draw 30K easily.
As to the 150 mile rule, I have no idea. But as to the general question of should their be a second team in New York, I say yes. And why stop at two, I fell the city could support three teams. The real number of fans that can go to a game is not how many live in the metro area, or the size of the tv market, its how many people live within say 30 min. of the field. People cannot and will not travel that far 20 times a year for a game. Let's say that everyone in C'bus lives with in a 30 min drive of crew statium. That's over 2 million people to support the team. In New York, say only 5 million live in New Jersey and the western part of the city that can eaisly travel to the game. With only one team in New York we are wasting another 5-6 million people that could go to supporting a team but can't now. Of course this only applies to putting people in the stands and not to tv viewing. That's for another thread.
Dream Request Allright now, if we're dreaming about another New York team, can we have it in Queens and can they have an all Orange jersey with some blue and white thrown in there. Sort of like the Dutch flag and uniform. Thanks.
This should be required reading for anyone outside of the NYC area who posts on these boards. (Also, for anyone having anything to do with Pro soccer in the Metropolitan area) I actually think if you put an A-league team in the middle of Queens or Brooklyn they could average as many fans as the Metros at GS, as long as they play in a SSS, within walking distance of a subway stop - in fact this would probably be an all around more enjoyable experience.
I don't think there is a rule because, they announced Cleveland as a possible expansion city and that is about 130 miles from Cbus.... -PB20
The irony of course, is that if you take public transportation, Giants Stadium is easier to get to from Midtown Manhattan than a stadium in Queens or Brooklyn would be. Before there can be a second team in the NYC metro area, we probably need to get the stadium in Harrison built, re-brand the Metros as the NJ franchise. Only then can we talk about a NY franchise, but even then, good luck seeing money from either the state or the city.
NYC option Maybe I'm cutting into the New Stadium in Harrison thread but... If theres such a huge problem with the NJSEA why don't they try to get a soccer stadium somewhere in the New York City meaning. The Bronx, Queens , Brooklyn,(omit Staten Island cause that's practically New Jersey) As for Mass transit. Taking the 7 to Queens is the same as taking the Shuttle Bus to Giants Stadium. To go to Yankee Stadium you can take the 4,5,6. To get to Shea you can take the 7 or the LIRR. These are all easy to get to from Manhattan. So a stadium in NYC should be an option. As for the Harrison Stadium after all it is NY/NJ Metrostars( I know they dropped it but still) why is NYC not considered in the new Metros home?
I believe that the rule is that any owner/operator has rights to the territory within a 75-mile radius of their team. The Kluge/Subotnik Metros were giving the Union FC folks trouble for trying to set up a team in Trenton due to this rule. However, the Chicago Fire gave their blessings to a potential Milwaukee franchise which would have fallen within Chicago's radius. - Paul
What I meant was that you can get a direct bus from Port Authority to GS, and if the Harrison, NJ SSS ever gets built, it would be less than a 30 minute ride from 33rd/6th. Compare that with say, close to an hour subway ride from Manhattan to the once-proposed site at Aqueduct Racetrack near JFK.
The problem with the bus is that it isnt a realiable option. Many times the bus has left only when it gets full. Theres nothing worng with that unless you're on one of the last busses and have to wait till 5 minutes before kick off to leave.
the cosmos will not be playing in mls http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/10/sports/soccer/10SOCC.html?tntemail1
I know what you meant - my point was that many people view a 1hr subway ride as more convenient than a half hour bus ride, partly because, as people have pointed out, it's never only 30 minutes when you factor in waiting to buy the bus ticket, waiting for the bus, waiting in traffic, the bus driver gets hopefully lost (it actually happens), etc.
Yep. but thats why the Harrison thing will be sweet. And its really a perfect spot. It'll be like 20 minute ride on a PATH train($1.50 each way). And you can also catch it at different points in the west side. Which means you dont have to go all the way up to 33rd if you coming from Brooklyn.
And there is a mileage rule in Baseball as well (I think it is 75 miles), but obviously, it can be waived, as in the case of the Mets/Yankees. The most recent result of that rule in baseball was that when Rudy "I'll do anything for baseball" Giuliani wanted to build the Yankees farm team the new stadium in Staten Island, they had to get permission from the Mets, since it wen't afoul (pun intended) of the mileage rule. Well, of course, the Mets were happy to say yes ... if Rudy "Two baseball stadiums are better than one" Giulani would build a stadium for the Mets' farm club in Brooklyn. As to MLS, though, I doubt there is any such rule in place, as it would be silly not to evaluate any case on an indiviual basis. However, as was pointed out, MetroMedia did have an option to start another NYC franchise, but that option expired without being elected (and it was more to do with getting in under the initial lower franchise fees, as much as protecting the market).
Do you think substantially more people from Manhattan will come than already do? Obviously to those of us who already go to GS it will be a big improvement, but going to NJ and using the Path train still seems to go against the grain for a lot of NYers.