I disagree. I think that's a good turnout for a winless team. Keep in mind that plenty of teams in the "BIG Four" sports pull in crowds like that. Good Job Rapids.
How the big 4 stack up Wasn't it one of the "Year of the Uniform" nights? Free shorts giveaway? I know that the jerseys are obviously going to be a much bigger draw, but I am a bit surprised at the numbers only being 13,000 and change for kids giveaway on a Saturday night. The Rapids have had very respectable figures for attendance, with a great average last year - especially for a soccer team in the US. But I suspect that in order to really do well, we need to do better, because our "family friendly pricing" means that quite a few of our tickets are going to half price, with some more going to freebies, with the pricing structure for children (I'd love to see those numbers!), and a few of our games last year TOTALLY skewed our figures, such as the July 4 game, WUSA and the National team double header. A lot of the teams in the big 4 that pull in 13,000 are struggling teams. For example: In the NBA, only a few teams had a lower average attendance: Atlanta, Cleveland and Houston. Now I realize that this is averages for a season versus one game. Even the Nuggets average over 14,000, though I am sure that the 'leagues hardest working team' had a few empty-seat nights. http://www.insidehoops.com/attendance.shtml In baseball, only a few REALLY struggling teams had attendance anywhere near the Rapids: Expos, Twins and Marlins (the figures I have are from 2000 - sorry), and all three teams are considered candidates for contraction (though the Twins have really improved their lot with better attendance). Most teams range from 20,000 to 40,000 averages. http://sportsfansofamerica.com/FansInAction/Attendance/MLB/Main1.htm The NFL? Again, the numbers are from 2000, but you can't even say that these numbers are anywhere near close to the Rapids or MLS. The Arizona Cardinals were the worst team, clocking in at just under 50,000 per game. http://sportsfansofamerica.com/FansInAction/Attendance/NFL/20001.htm Finally, the NHL: Even in the NHL (using 00/01 figures), few teams have averages below last week's attendance: Anaheim, Carolina and the Islanders (all relatively weak teams, except for Anaheim this year). http://sportsfansofamerica.com/FansInAction/Attendance/NHL/20011.htm Plus lets keep in mind the expense to go to one of these sports relative to a Rapids game. I bet only baseball comes close for a decent seat. Overall, we need to look at the seasonal average to get a better picture and to do a fairer comparison, but I would say that our bad play of late scared quite a few people off.
I can't believe someone is complaining about selling 13,000 tickets to a game featuring a pair of winless teams.
Or, you could say: 'I can't believe that we only sold 13,000 tickets to a game featuring last year's MLS Cup champions and a kids giveaway that the Rapids are heavily hyping with their "Year of the Uniform" thing' (never mind that LA is playing weakly this year and Ruiz was out for a red card suspension - I wonder how many people know that/realize that when they buy their tickets - I suppose it depends on their level of soccer sophistication and the timing of their purchase). Its all a matter of perspective.
Actually no, I couldn't say that. Yes, it's a matter of perspective. And your perspective isn't the same as mine. I see a team that drew better than the other 4 teams on Saturday, a team that despite their record and the start of summer remains 3rd in the league for average attendance.
Let me ask this: Does anyone (or Greenie) have any idea how many of the tickets that are sold go to "family friendly pricing" ticket packs (ie, how many half price and free tickets are being sold)? I know that we are not in WUSA land with attendance numbers, but 13,000 as the best draw in the league is pretty depressing. Yeah, we're terrible so far this year, and yeah, so is LA. It will be interesting to see where the attendance numbers go from here. WE can count on spectacular attendance on July 4 (unless its a washout, which would be a killer for us), and we can probably count on aweful attendance for the 2 wednesday night June games.
"Let me ask this: Does anyone (or Greenie) have any idea how many of the tickets that are sold go to "family friendly pricing" ticket packs (ie, how many half price and free tickets are being sold)?" I don't know, but there is no way I'm going to buy a free ticket. Seriously, All sports have freebies, family paks, King Soopers even sells Rockies tickets for $2 sometimes (it was $1 last year). So I'm not sure why you are so wrapped up in the Rapids promotions. It's no secret the Soccer is not on par, audience wise, with the "American" sports. It's hardly fair to compare the MLS with Baseball, Football etc., considering how entrenched those sports are in the U.S. It's more important to compare within the MLS, compare markets, compare year to year changes, things like that. However, if it's just looking for things to complain about, then there lots out there "remains 3rd in the league for average attendance" I was looking for those stats earlier, where did you find them. I thought the Rapids were higher than 3rd and was looking for the actual numbers.
And let us not forget (oh well, I did forget!) that the Crush---or was it the Mammoth?---was actually giving people money to attend their games last season, and local radio stations were giving away scads of free tickets. OK, I know that's no good for the franchise, and it's an extreme example, but whatever. Putting butts in seats is an inherently good thing for the MLS. Some friends of mine landed a few free Rapids tickets last season and this year bought half-season subscriptions.
Seriously, All sports have freebies, family paks, King Soopers even sells Rockies tickets for $2 sometimes (it was $1 last year). So I'm not sure why you are so wrapped up in the Rapids promotions. I mention the "family friendly pricing" because season tickets are (I assume) the most reliable form of revenue flow for all the games. If we are claiming "woo hoo! we sold 12,000 (just making a number up) season tickets this year!" it suggests something about the popularity and fiscal health of the team. If 1,000 of those tickets were freebies to kids under a certain age, and another 4,000 are half price to kids in another age range, then the Rapids are NOT getting 12,000 tickets worth of revenue. The Rapids are getting 9,000 tickets worth of revenue. I will also concede though that those additional 5,000 bodies through the door do add up to a LOT of extra merchandise being sold, which probably goes all to the Rapids, and additional vending (food, drink, etc.) which may also go in part to the Rapids. I would also note though that many of the deals offered by the "big 4" sports seem to be geared towards selling surplus tickets, not season tickets (except for the Nuggets, which offer their 10 pack for $150 deal). I'm thinking of the Avs family nights, where they offer 4 tickets, 4 pizzas and 4 soda type deals for $50, or whatever it is. I don't recall any special deals for the Broncos, Nuggets, Rockies or Avalanche that get kids in the door free or 1/2 price all season long (though I could be wrong, since I don't have kids and don't look very hard for such deals ;-) It's no secret the Soccer is not on par, audience wise, with the "American" sports. It's hardly fair to compare the MLS with Baseball, Football etc., considering how entrenched those sports are in the U.S. It's more important to compare within the MLS, compare markets, compare year to year changes, things like that. However, if it's just looking for things to complain about, then there lots out there I mention the other leagues only because someone (G. Enriquez) suggested that 13,000 was on a par with plenty of teams in the "big 4" sports. I wanted to show that this was not the case. I agree that its tough to compare MLS, which has been around 8 years, with American institutions such as baseball and football. The most reliable indicator is to compare MLS teams year over year to one another, themselves and leaguewide. Still, with the popularity of soccer in terms of playing, I would think/hope that the league would be a stronger draw - which is what I (we all?) really want - more people who are passionately into the game actually coming to the stadium - And I want the Rapids to lead the way.
It should also be noted for those outside the area, the weather certainly wasn't that good, with scattered storms popping up all over the area. More of a disincentive to travel than to miss the game itself perhaps, but either way, it's the same in the end.
"Still, with the popularity of soccer in terms of playing, I would think/hope that the league would be a stronger draw - which is what I (we all?) really want - more people who are passionately into the game actually coming to the stadium - And I want the Rapids to lead the way." I agree completely. I've often wondered why the popularity of youth soccer hasn't translated into larger attendance at professional games. I've seen different theories but can't say I've latched on to one as the definitive answer. I have to admit some guilt, however, that part of me likes the lower numbers, like when I bought great season tickets at a reasonable price and when I can park in close lot
The biggest reason for this -- the one given by most parents -- is that they've already spent much or all of the day shuttling their kid(s) around to their games, as well as to practices during the week. On a Saturday night, many families just want to stay in or do something that doesn't revolve around soccer. Many other families point to the fact that the're lucky if they get the kids to bed before 11pm if they go to a Rapids game on a Saturday night. And to answer previous questions/comments in this thread: - No, I've got no idea what portion of tickets are discounts, freebies, whatever. "Willie dahn know, Willie dahn care!" - July 4th attendance will be colossal regardless of the weather -- that's because "attendance" is actually a number of tickets sold, not butts in the seats. Walk-up business is significant on the 4th, but the vast majority of tickets are advance sales. - Attendance stats can be found on MLSnet within the Statistics section (choose "League Stats" and scroll 1/2 to 2/3 of the way down)
We need to look at the history of soccer in America and learn from past mistakes. The NASL struggled early on (let's not forget that it was formed 1968) before the arrival of Pele in 1975 which turned the league upside down. Had the league not over-expanded (they had a team in my hometown, Memphis, for God's sake) and grown responsibly, they may have been around when the US National Team qualified for the 1990 World Cup which ignited a resurgence in soccer curiosity in America. History definitely repeats itself as the MLS was formed after World Cup interest (the 1966 World Cup sparked the NASL) when in 1994, World Cup matches were played in the US. It is now up to the league to grow slowly and sensibly, even if a Beckham ever joins its ranks. I think the league is currently doing things correctly (although I would suggest relocating low attendance teams versus expanding in 2005) and hopefully, in time, attendances will slowly rise.