1/20 News [USAToday: MLS Draft Day Winners & Losers"

Monty, let me remind you that we have Downing, Heaps, Pierce, Kante, Joseph, Franchino, Cullen, and Hernandez who can play defense. Joseph being the key as he is expected to provided what we lost in Llamosa.

 

Monty,

Look at it this way: We trade Chacon for Reis more than we did the 18 pick. Besides, when considering who we got only three picks later in Dimelon Westfield (3-Time All American,) we didn't give up that much in terms of the actual draft.

We got a taltented, experienced MLS back-up to Brown, and someone who'll likely see a fair bit of playing time due to the number of matches the Revs will be playing this year in various domestic and regional competitions.

We added depth at forward, not a bad idea when Twellman may see time away from the club for National Team duty, and with the futures of Serna and Joe-Max still unresolved it was a safe move to get a young player with pace, skill, and some international experience at youth level. Who knows: maybe Westfield is still young enough to be classified a Transitional International for 2003.

Finally, we get Kyle Singer, a local product who'll likely occupy a developmental slot. So let's say he joins the team down in Brazil for camp, or perhaps later. Meanwhile, you have a player in Brown who has had some injury problems through his career, while also getting a first taste of the U.S. National team at Senior Level. Singer is nothing more than a low-cost insurance policy for the Revs, or rather, Reis. The former Galaxy keeper can start and do well in MLS, already having done so. If the unthinkable happens and we lose Brown for a good stretch of time, Singer's someone we can call on.

As for Noonan? Well, if the guy's as good as advertised he can serve as a back-up just about anywhere in midfield: good news for players like Nowak who could use a spell off the bench late in matches. If he also can play wide right in midfield, that gives Nicol some options in that he doesn't have to pull Heaps off the back-line as a back-up for Ralston. In the long-run it can allow for great consistency and continuity in terms of line-ups.

The only position where we're relatively weak is at left-midfield. Dunivant went early and as several people have pointed out, there really wasn't a better left-side player in the draft.

As for the P-40s and Youth National Team players?

Well, what exactly is the Revolution's track record at developing young players, eh? Yes, some will immediately point to Rusty Pierce, but that more than anything is a case of MLS preparing the player rather than the club. Rusty was tossed right into the fray and hands-on training...

...meanwhile you have Nick Downing withering on the vine, and what about Johnny Torres, Shaker Asad, Ian Fuller...

In terms of the draft the Revolution added depth, not wasting any picks especially in the later rounds.

The Magpie

 

I do think you are confused Monty as was the person who did the newspaper story.

Only time will tell but I'm betting we picked a winner with Noonan. He is NOT an Ian Fuller play-alike. He is a three time All American. The Revs have been scouting him for some time and just because some of the coaches at the combine weren't impressed he's got just as much chance of being an impact player as most of the draft picks after the first few picks.

Westfield was a National team player for T&T. He's fast, skilled and can score. He's no Fuller either..

Picking a Developmental Roster Keeper who lives in Boston and will be able to live at home and do gradulate scholl as well as play is a no brainer on a team where the starting keeper has a history of lost time due to injury.

Maybe the thing I get from the Revs behaviors on draft day was they had a plan to fill a few specific slot, went after players they wanted and felt they could sign and didn't waste energy on playres they didn't feel they could use..

Bottom Line: How the Revs do across the season and in the out years will either prove their chpices right or wrong. Till proven otherwise I will trust SN's judgement.

George.

 

So let's look at what our roster could look like should everything fall into place (i.e.: Llamosa and Serna out, Moore in...)

GK: Adin Brown
GK: Matt Reis
GK: Kyle Singer (Developmental Player)

D: Leo Cullen
D: Rusty Pierce
D: Daniel Hernandez
D: Joe Franchino
D: Nick Downing (Project-40)
D: Daouda Kante (Senior International)
D: Shalrie Joseph

M: Jay Heaps
M: Steve Ralston
M: Brian Kamler
M: Jim Rooney
M: Braeden Cloutier
M: Marshall Leonard (Developmental Player)
M: Tony Frias (Developmental Player)
M: Winston Griffiths
M: Peter Nowak (Green Card)
M: Pat Noonan (Project-40)

F: Taylor Twellman
F: Wolde Harris
F: Joe-Max Moore
F: Dimelon Westfield

Remember that for the 2003 season, the Revolution can carry 18 senior roster players and 5 developmental players.

Looking at the example roster above the Revs would have those five developmental slots filled. Let's also assume that Kante get's classified as a senior international for 2003.

You'd also be one over the 18-man senior roster slots. That being understood there is a roster cut-down date coming up at the end of this month I believe...

Anyone want to be on Tony Frias or Jim Rooney sticking around, and who's to say Winston Griffiths will still be around.

So just for ***************s and giggles let's assume all three are shown the door. That would leave the Revs with one open developmental slot and one senior slot, having made no discovery picks to this point and likely retaining the $$$ to make one or two.

I think the Revs have filled their immediate needs to the point where they won't be trying out every odd Brazilian come camp in a few weeks, and can focus on developing the team within the parameters of the current roster.

As for the center of defense? Well, Kante showed his capability, and who wouldn't like to see Joseph play along side him? Two central defenders, both about 6"3, with Joseph having a fair bit of pace and some (semi) professional experience playing for the New York Freedoms last year.

I think it will be interesting to see how everything develops, especially in the coming month.

The Magpie

 

Magpie you made a few errors.

~This year we will be allowed six Developmental players not five.

~You listed Noonan as a P-40. I don't think he is unless he was added to the P-40 list after the graft.

~TF3 will no longer be elegable for the DV Roster

~As far as I know Griffith does not have a Green card and by age will move from TI to SI this season..

I agree that the Revs have a good, mature, well balanced roster. They also have a Discovery option open and probibly some Cap space to work with.

So wheres Buhlman???

George.

 

Why didn't Griffiths count as a TI or a SI last year? The only TI we had was Kante.

 

Maybe he has a green card. I must admit it's hard to know for sure who does and who doesn't. If you go to the MLS site they have our roster listed but it has errors---so whats the fact are your guess is as good as mine.

 

I suspect that the key to the draft was Nicol's opinion of Shalrie Joseph and the liklihood of getting Joe Max back. If Joseph can step in and play and the return of the prodigal is in the bag then the team is both deep and talented. This is, of course, dependent on everyone being healthy.

I note that the Magpie has Heaps as a midfielder. And where, pray tell, might he be playing? I think a more likely scenario is a back line of Heaps and Franchino outside, with Kante paired with either Pierce or Joseph. This gives us a quick, tough and very athletic back four that is a bit dicey on the ball but otherwise pretty good.

The midfield could be a lot better than last year as far as ball movement goes and if Noonan and/or Joseph can play outside then we are definitely improved.

If Serna is, indeed gone, I think Harris' display in the latter weeks of the season helped grease the slide. He can definitely play with Twellman and would also be a good partner for Joe Max and his attitude is excellent, plus he is the same age as Serna and cheaper. I think he has played himself into consideration.

Reis as backup to Brown is excellent and, hopefully, the two will develop a healthy rivalry.

Finally, as relates to the draft, MLS has proven itself to be no place to bring up kids. Look at DC, full of young players for the last two years but unable to give them serious experience. Until we have reserve teams or ironclad working agreements with the A League, MLS teams are far better off to take 20/21 year olds than 16/17 year olds. There just isn't any way to play them consistently in the current setup.

JIM DOW

 

I just went and checked MLS site rosters again. They have added Reis and removed APC but don't have Joseph listed although he is listed on the Rev site roster.

The only TI listed is Kante so I guess Griffith has a green card. That may just save him his job.

 

well according to MLS, Serna, Kamler, and Herndadez still play for the Mutts and Nowak never left Chicago(check their bios)

 

A friend of mine was attending the NSCAA convention in KC last week. He was on the same flight as Steve Nichol, Matt Driver, John Murphy and Renato Capobianco. Sunil was nowhere to be seen. He knows one of them pretty well and is an acquaintance of another. As their flight got sidetracked in Cincy due to weather, they became travelling companions.

Although the foursome wouldn't say who they were going to draft, one individual said that they were going to draft the best player available regardless of position. It worked for them last year when Dallas passed on TT. Hence the selection of Pat Noonan at #9. My friend spoke to other folks at the convention and the consensus there was that Noonan was a good choice.

I'm sure the same strategy was used on Westfield. I can't understand the Singer selection. Oh, to be a fly on the wall at Gillette Stadium......

 

From what I've heard about Joseph, I'd like to see what he could do at D-mid. Big, fast, covers a lot of ground. Someone like that would be great behind Nowak. Most of our D-mid types are more suited to play in a 2 D-mid set, where they have less ground to cover.

While you can point to DC as a case of too many youngsters, you also have to consider that Quaranta is P-40 and Convey was for the last few years. They don't hit home runs with every pick, but they get decent production from roster-exempt players, which is a big advantage with 18 man rosters.

I don't have a big problem with the Noonan pick on it's own. If Nicol thinks that Noonan can contribute to the team next year and none of the P-40s are as ready, that's fine, even though I wouldn't expect him to get too much time with this team unless he's a better left mid than Griffiths. However, I would still liked to have gotten a P-40 with my next pick.

As for picking the goalie in the third round, it's pretty hard to paint this in a good light. Not only would he probably been around for their next pick, they might have signed him later if he went undrafted.

 

The issue about P-40's and kids is not their quality. Quaranta, Convey, Buddle, Johnson etc. are among the best prospects in the world (look at those crazy "top 100 kids" lists in the footy mags). The question is what happens to them once they sign with MLS. There are no reserve teams, nor are the A League loanouts to be counted on, so many of them rot. Donovan and Twellman played, while not at the level they wanted, got better and came here farther along the development chain than, say, Shaker Asad or Nick Downing. Whose fault/responsibility is that? Not to equate the latter pair with the former but you have to admit that MLS development of teenage players isn't that great. Twenty-somethings like Rusty, yes, but shouldn't Convey and Quaranta be way ahead of where they are now?

Someone quoted Nicol as "not wanting to be a baby-sitter" and I think that is an appropriate observation. At this point, the Rev aren't equipped to develop kids. I'm sure they would like to but there just isn't the support for it.

JIM DOW

 

I see people complaining about what we did with our third round pick, and I can't help but think: "Show me three players drafted in the third round after 1997 that are impact players in the league now." I mean it's like complaining you didn't win on a lottery ticket. The odds were stacked against you to begin with.

Also, IN MY OPINION this draft was way overhyped. Sure, all these U-17s and U-20s came into the league, but none of them are ready to be stars yet. None of them is close. It's going to be YEARS before Eddie Gaven is playing regularly. Look at Bobby Convey. He's a decent MLS player now, but not a star.

That the Revs used their second round pick to get the best back up GK in the league is a coup if you ask me.

Also, the Revs have no intention of playing Noonan as a striker. They see him as good cover for Ralston AND Kamler.

 

Well said Jim. I'd love to see the Revs with 6 or 8 teanagers who would get exposure to the first team but who mostly were getting LOTS of game experience on a Reserve Team. Maybe 3-5 years from now every MLS Club will be fiscally secure and then all teams will have a reserve team.

Till then--IMHO smart coaches will draft ready for prime time players only./

George

 

I don't think the Singer pick is hard to figure out. I think the Revs wanted a "developmental" player as a 3rd goalie (Brown, not to mention most goalies, is injury prone). It's pretty hard to convince a decent prospect to sit behind 2 established keepers and earn less than they need to have their own apartment or buy a decent car. Singer fits the bill perfectly. He's a pretty good keeper, one who with some professional training, wouldn't be a disaster being your emergency backup to either Brown or Reis. He's already going to school locally, so he's probably already got some cheap digs, a beater to get around in and likely some more schooling to be taken advantage of. Based on his comments, he's totally thrilled and will probably sign up for his $15K or whatever, asap. And Nicol won't have to look to the Connecticut Wolves, or whoever, if one of his keepers is unavailable, and won't have to introduce his defenders to their keeper.

I agree that Singer probably could have been had at least a round later, but I really believe that Nicol didn't see anyone else he wanted and didn't see any reason to dick around and risk a nice solution to a nagging little detail like a 3rd keeper. Same reason why they traded their 5th pick for next year's 6th (they weren't going to use it anyway, and I'm sure the MS knew that, which is why the best they could get was a round later - which they'll probably pass on anyway!).

As for the central defense if Llamosa is truly gone, I think (although I'm basing this on the reported physical dimentions) that Joseph is more of a real sweeper type like Kante. A good central defense pairing is usually a big physical "reader" to take on high balls, big forwards and use athleticism to clear the box, with a more disciplined "marker" who will chase and stick to the smaller and quicker threats. So, I think Pierce is the likely pairing - and the departure of Llamosa would be a solution about what to do with Pierce.

Joseph sounds like he'd be a backup to Kante at sweeper, and if he's talented and versatile enough, will find lots of other opportunities to get on the field.

 

I agree %100. And to shed Chacon's salary at the same time, too! I'm really surprised that anyone was willing to give up anything for Chacon, rather than wait for him to hit the waiver wire.

That's what I've been hoping to hear!

My impression of Nicol is that he's more about "finding positions for players", than he is about "finding players for positions".

Last year he found ways to get his best players on the field, in several cases playing them in different places than they had been used previously.

 

1998
26. Los Angeles - Matt Reis, GK, UCLA
30. Los Angeles - Joe Franchino, D, Washington

1999
35. Miami - Nick Rimando, GK, UCLA

2001
27. Columbus - Edson Buddle, F, Project-40
28. D.C. United - Craig Ziadie, D, Richmond
29. Chicago - Jim Curtin, D, Villanova
64. Miami - Daouda Kante, D, Fla. International

2002
47. Columbus - Chris Leitch, D, North Carolina
66. MetroStars - Jeff Moore, M

Maybe not "impact" players, but they're all at least useful role players.

So, because a kid may not be ready to help you right now, don't take him? Isn't that why you're supposed to scout some of these kids - so that you can figure out who's going to be the best player?

Listen, I think Pat Noonan could be a decent midfielder in MLS, I really do. Some of the bashing he's taken on these boards has a lot to do with the fact that he's not a natural forward. But I've also seen Eddie Gaven play, and mark my words - there will come a day when someone on these boards will say, "I can't believe we passed up a chance to get HIM instead of Pat Noonan."

 

Isn't it the a little early for you to be drinking Monty?

 

1. While Reis is a nice pickup, I think that deal was more about getting something more than a pair of dirty athletic socks for Pineda Chacon. It was a great deal for NE--b/c otherwise you're cutting APC outright. You freed up the cap space and got a usable player at a position you definitely need depth at.

2. The Singer pick--Rkupp was spot on. You've got a starting keeper (Brown) who has a history of injuries. You've just acquired a second guy (Reis) who was demanding a chance to start and unhappy on the bench. Singer is insurance--nothing more. If Brown goes down, you've got 2 keepers for practice. If Reis loses the starting job and walks, you've got insurance.

3. Noonan--he's immediate help. He'll provide you more PT (or potentially more) than would Memo Gonzalez, Gaven, Magee or the others. He's a college senior who's played a lot of games. So he helps with practice and competition RIGHT NOW. Having said that, he's not as good as Ali Curtis--who contributed nothing in TB his first year, and was a useful but limited player in his second year on a DC team that was crying out for anything resembling a striker. In short, I bet that Noonan is out of pro soccer in 3 years. That's not a slam on him in particular. Only that there are such strong temptations, that the really best college soccer players tend to leave early (even if it's only 1 or 2 years early). The exceptions tend to be guys like Diego Walsh, Morrison, Thomas--and the attraction for many of the foreign players who come to the US is they paid to get a college degree.

4. I think a couple of teams in this draft clearly went for the "best player" in terms of RIGHT NOW (and not--6 months from now or a year from now). Look at SJ's draft--very similar to NE's in that regard.

5. The point about the 3rd round is mistaken on this particular draft. Last year--the draft was terrible. Very few picks stuck and made major contributions. This year, you had a group of about 5-6 outstanding players, then it dropped down a couple of notches, then there was a very large pool of potentially outstanding players. Memo Gonzalez, Eddie Gaven, Alvarez, Magee--guys like that. Most of them will barely play in MLS this year b/c they'll be at the youth WC or in residence at Bradentown (SoS just noted that Gaven is not likely to actually be with their team until September--they want him in Bradentown playing regularly). There was tremendous talent available in round 3 and 4.

6. Just a small point: DCU actually played mostly youngsters in 2001. Ziadie, Lisi, Nelsen, Quaranta, Convey, Alegria, Namoff, Denton all saw a lot of minutes that year (I'm sure I left off a few). As for 2002, Justin Mapp played 28 minutes (the coaching staff was dissatisfied with his degree of professionalism). All the other youngsters played in 2002. It is fair to say that most P-40 players who are 16 or 17 usually don't play much if at all their first year (Quaranta and Convey are exceptions). Some of these kids (Gaven, Gonzalez) I don't think will get major minutes until year 3.