¿Are there too many foreigners in Real Madrid?

Well if you buy a local player from a rival, all you do is make their fans hate you. No extra shirts sold. If you buy a player of similar ability from England, for example, you get a horde of England fans demanding to see your games, not to mention a legion of Asian and American fans who take an immediate interest in your club. Think of the money, Oscar! Think of the money.

 

Oh please, I really hope you're joking or else I'm going to get a migraine. The only player bringing an unusually large number of extra fans from outside is Beckham, who is unique in his popularity in football. Even then as a player he holds his own at the top level.

As for foreigners, ideally in my opinion the majority of the team - 6 of the 11 - should really be local, or of the home nationality. It keeps a connection between the club and their home region, otherwise it can feel like a multi-national corporation outsourcing all its labor to foreign workers because they are either easier to buy or will work harder for their money as they have more to prove as an outsider.

However ultimately clubs and most fans are interested in winning, good football and will bring in players from all over the world to achieve that. I don't think Madrid have gone too far, although I think they could do with replacing Figo with Joaquin and should really have signed Xabi Alonso rather than chased Vieira or making eyes at Van Bommel. That would have given a nice core of Spanish players.

 

I do not know the atmosphere in the locker room, but I told you a story..... when Real Madrid was in Hong Kong last year, the foreign players and Spanish hanged out separately among themselves. Ronaldo, Zidane, Beckham, Roberto Carlos, Steve M and Figo all hanged out in this nightclub. one of my distance cousin is a part-owner. He also noticed that all the Real Madrid players present were non-Spanish. A few of my friends at the club also said the same thing. I used to have photos to prove. In one photo, Ronaldo had 5 Brazilian models working in HK around him. Some people told me that he did all 5 of them in the toilet, but that was probably not true. Meanwhile, in another club across harbor, Raul, Morientes and Guti were partying among themselves. All the players there were Spanish. I read that in the newspaper, but I knew where they were on that night. I planned to visit there on the same night.

 

The amount of coverage of Owen and certainly Woodgate in England is minor, the occasional footnote when a goal is scored or they get injured. This isn't Asia or America where when one of their players gets signed by a club there is a surge of commerical interest. The Premiership is what matters.

Certainly I and the other english people who post here have no interest in spending money on Real Madrid buying shirts or merchandise, we have our own clubs as does everybody in England. This is merely an interesting curiousity worthy of the occasional post, and aside from Beckham there's no way Perez signed Woodgate or Owen for commercial reasons - there aren't any for those two, especially Woodgate who cost a lot more than Owen and was far more of a risk. The club signed them because they were top class players, better than what he could get in Spain for that money, although Woodgate does need to get fit and stay fit to prove it.

 

You've got to be joking if you feel that there is no better defender in Spain for around 13.24million GBP. Remember when Ayala was priced at 15 million GBP back in the summer when he was linked to Chelsea? (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/europe/3760085.stm). I'd say Milito is better than Woodgate... wouldn't cost anywhere near as much (and I'm not even talking about the fiasco in summer 2003 and the price back then).

We could also have got Eto's for the same price as owen (we owned half the rights) but Perez thought he was not yet ready, which made Eto'o pretty much adamant to go to Barca, win Pichichi and make us look stupid.

And please don't say that Owen is better than Eto'o. I like Owen and I respect what he has done in the past, but on current form Eto'o and Adriano are the two hottest strikers in Europe, they are both young, and they get better every year. It's just that playing for Mallorca gets you a lot less visibility and opportunity than playing for Liverpool so people may be inclined to rate Owen higher... but as someone who has watched both the Premiership and the 1st Division for years, trust me, Eto'o is every bit as good.

 

Milito better than Woodgate and Eto'o better than Owen? Those are opinions which you're entitled to hold, but which I think are ridiculous and on a factual level to present them as being 'fact' is garbage. Just looking at this season, although Et'oo has bagged a lot goals in a team on stronger form, Owen has 5 goals in his last 6 games despite being subbed on and off in practically every game in his first season in spain, he's not even 26 and you're talking about him like he's touching 30! Before this season Eto'o had done well at Mallorca but certainly not enough to justify being compared at all to Owen, a European footballer of the year and who has scored goals by the bucketload at the highest levels of football ever since his professional debut. Owen is a more consistent goalscorer than Eto'o and always will be. I have watched Eto'o a lot and he is talented player, but there is a big difference between being talented and being talented and productive consistently and at all levels of opposition and competition.

As for Milito being better than Woodgate - only when Woodgate is injured, which is frequent, but a fully fit Woodgate has often been considered better or on the same level defensively as the likes of Rio Ferdinand who in turn are vastly superior to mid-level players like Milito. I'm confident that Woodgate will show himself to be far above Milito, but only time and fitness will be able to show either way. To date Woodgate is clearly superior as he has proved himself in the Champions League and UEFA cup with Leeds (both times with runs to the semi finals), in the UEFA cup with Newcastle (semi final again) and in league play with both teams.

Despite your claims you come across as one of those fans who has only been following football for the past couple of years. By all means have an opinion, but try thinking a bit more and being less reactionary to short term form and BBC gossip.

Besides this is a thread about foreign players - last time I checked Milito and Eto'o were both foreign and not spanish. If anyone thinks Woodgate was signed for any form of commercial reasons they are an idiot who knows nothing about him or about football fans in England or elsewhere. Even I would bring more commercial revenue as a signing.

 

One of the most intelligent posts I have ever read. Thank you.

Revelian

 

i thought it was because eto'o was non-eu and we already had 3 in our side?

 

If English players, Beckham aside, have been bought for marketing reasons then Real Madrid's marketing director should be fired immediately.

 

Based on my mental image of footy-mad UK, this surprises me.

I do understand how most everybody has their favorite local teams, but it seems that there'd be an increase in RM merchandise sold in the UK, or perhaps TV rights.

Interesting.

 

im with oscar on this.
in a perfect world, every team would have at least 6 domestic starters.

 

Woodgate was most definitely NOT signed for commercial reasons, no need to argue there. Owen i'm sure was not signed solely for commercial reasons, but i think his marketability definitely helped him out. We're talking about England's boy wonder, the guy who was on everyone's lips before Rooney arrived. I find it hard to believe that an England international striker who is also a poster boy does not get much coverage in England. I can speak for Asia though, he is still widely followed due to his time at Liverpool and many asian fans still love him, so i have no doubt they would be buying his shirts here.

 

I'm not sure you've watched much of Real Zaragoza if you think Milito is so far behind Woodgate. Milito is doing a very good job at a recently promoted team and looks assured, solid, and strong in the air. I've only seen a few games of Woodgate at Newcastle, having watched more of him at Leeds, but i know he's a good defender. But really, to say he's already world class and Milito is 'mid-level' is in my opinion an equally ridiculous statement to the one you highlighted. Woodgate has not achieved anything for England, he's barely established himself in any top level competitions outside of England, and he's extremely injury-prone. Many defenders have been highly rated before only to move to a big club and then struggle for form. So Woodgate still has to prove himself before he can be compared with Ferdinand, or even Milito who has established himself as one of La Liga's steadiest defenders.

 

Sorry, sendorange, but I disagree. I am an American watching British TV (Sky Digital) and I see planty of coverage of Beckham, Owen & even Woodgate at RM. Yes the Barclay Premier League gets top billing, but every time Owen has scored for RM it has been one of the 3 lead stories on Sky Sports.

 

Let's not talk about what Owen has achieved since age 17. The discussion is about who is worth more, at this point in time, and the best way to calculate that is over a 14-month timeframe. I think that's fair since it's only it's only in the last 14 months that Eto'o has been pursued aggressively by the big clubs so that he can be compared with an Owen, and 14 months is also long enough to be more than a 1-season flash in the pan.

There is no doubt that over a 14 month period, including time that Owen spent at Liverpool and Eto'o at mallorca, Eto'o has been at least as prolific goalscorer as Owen. If you really have followed Eto'o a "lot" could you please enlighten me about when since 2001-02, Eto'o was NOT "productive consistently and at all levels of opposition and competition" given the club he played with the opposition he played against. Playing for mallorca, I'd say that Madrid is about as good a team as you can play against, and we all know what he did to us. Yes he was no "boy wonder" but for the last 14 months, Eto'o has been the more consistent and productive goalscorer, whereas Owen has been hot over the last month after almost a year of underachieving.

I'd also say that scoring 17 league goals in 32 appearances for Mallorca compares very well with 16 in 29 or 19 in 35 (02-03) for Liverpool (going by your "form team" argument). Internationally Eto's 24 in 60 is almost as good as Owen's 26 in 62. Yes Europe may be stronger but there are no shortage of soft games in Euro and WC qualifying, and I think the improvement in oppositition quality is balanced by the improvement in the quality of the supporting cast.

And PLEASE don't say that a Ballon d'Or in 2001 is more necessarily more relevant than a reigning African footballer of the Year. Or you feel that an African Footballer of the Year is meaningless and "certainly not enough to justify being compared at all to Owen, a European footballer of the year" 3 frigging years ago?

If you look at Eto's numbers over the last 2-3 years you will see a lot of similarities with another young star, Adriano and what he achieved at Fiorentina, Parma and the second half of last season at Inter. But I guess because the fact that this season, when both players have finally got the opportunity to perform at a big club, they have both grabbed it with both hands and are doing as well as the marquee names of world football, people like Ronaldo and Henry and RVN and Sheva. I think it's patently absurd to claim that people like Eto'o and Adriano are worth less than Owen simply because so far they had a smaller stage to perform on.

I think the fact that Barca paid close to 30 million $ for Eto'o is a pretty good indicator about how highly he is rated, and when a player reaches that price point, it's stupid to say that he has not done enough to "certainly not enough to justify being compared at all to Owen" a player significantly cheaper, even if it was the last year of his contract. Forget history dude, the present is where it's at, and the market does not lie. You may not like it, but when it came to choosing a forward this summer, Eto'o was worth a lot more than Owen, so there's no justification for saying he cannot be compared to Owen.

That's an absurd statement, a fully-fit Woodgate is arguably England's no.4 central defender behind Rio, Sol and Terry. Yes everyone knows he had a great season with Leeds in 2000-01, but conversely, Milito is a guy who won Argentinian player of the year at age 21-22 despite being a central defender. Player of the Year in a country that is a production line of outstanding talent in a year when Riquelme was the toast of the country, Aimar was running the show for Valencia, Crespo had not yet had his horror season at Chelsea. He has had 5 caps with Argentina to Woodgate's 2 for England, and to be behind Ayala and samuel in the pecking order of your country's national team (as he was when he moved to Spain) is no shame, and not worse than being behind Terry, Sol and Rio. Bielsa in 2002 said that Milito was possibly a future national captain. I don't see anyone talking about Woodgate in those terms. Maybe playing in Zaragoza was not the smartest career move in terms of furthering his national career, but anyone who has seen zaragoza play last season can tell you that Milito was one of the best defenders in the League last year. I only saw him play 5-6 times, including against Madrid, but everytime I saw him I felt like shooting our club doctors for having let go of a player with such obvious class. Anyone who claims Milito is mid-level has not seen him play enough.

I guess the Apetura with Independiente counts for nothing? Or the Spanish Cup and Super Cup in his first season with zaragoza, in his first season in Europe in fact.

You contradict yourself the moment you say this. You say yourself, Milito is better than Woodgate when Woodgate is injured. You also say that Woodgate is frequently injured. Link the two and you are essentially saying that Milito is frequently better than Woodgate because Woodgate is injured frequently.
Also your statement was that Woodgate was "better than what he could get in Spain for that money", with the convenient caveat that he needed to stay fit to prove it. Well if he is injured that frequently, and if Milito is then better than him under those circumstances, doesn't that mean that Milito would have been a better buy with that money? How can you then claim that Woodgate was better then what he would get in Spain in that money. Are we talking about Woodgate's talent and potential if fully fit? Yes? Then why are we not talking about "potential" or "talent" for Eto'o? Or are there different standards for different players, so they fit into inconsistent arguments?

I'm sure there are enough people on this board who can vouch for my credibility and my posts over time demonstrate that I've been following football not "for the past couple of years" but since Mexico 86, and obsessively since Italia 90 and the Cable TV boon in Asia. Next time I suggest you have more of a worldview instead of seeing the football world through Premiership-tinted eyes.

I agree. But it was you who changed the focus to "better than what he could get in Spain for that money" which is what I responded to. Last time I checked, Milito and Eto's were both players "he could get in Spain for that money"

This statement takes the cake. You're proving you're an idiot if you think there are no commercial reasons behind this. This is not about the UK market, it's about the English-speaking market, about Asia. In Asia, in places like India and China, which are the two fastest growing markets in the world, an Owen is bigger than a Zidane and a Ronaldo. Beckham is in a different league. Even teams like Everton and Newcastle have huge followings, and a match featuring Aston Villa versus the Indian National Team would sell out 100,000 people with no problems. I'm not saying this is good in footballing terms, but this is just how it is, largely because of the saturation coverage and promotion on ESPN/Star Sports (shared ownership and coverage with Sky Sports). The premiership fan in India has access to at least 8 Premiership games, FA Cup Games, Magazine Shows, 2 Weekly Preview Shows, 2-3 weekly wrap-up shows, along with pre and post-game coverage.
As a result people like Owen and Beckham are icons while even people like Woodgate, Terry, Parker etc. are very well known.
With per capita incomes rising in two searing hot economies that contain over 2 billiion people, the best way to target them is not to spend money on Eto'o and Milito, it's to buy Owen and Woodgate. Again as a direct consequence, from a situation 3 years ago where I could watch 50% of Madrid games to now when I have not missed 1 game all season.
Of course, the is great irony if Perez ever sees the counterfeit Beckham or Owen T-shirts costing 2$ being worn by poor kids who will never afford an actual T-shirt, counterfeit T-shirts that are freely available all across Asia, blowing a huge hole his great "Asian market opportunity" to sell T-shirts at 50$.
And since credibility is such a concern, and if you feel I don't know what I'm talking about, is it enough that I am the 20-something Vice President of one of South Asia's Top 5 sports and entertainment companies, and that my company and I have negotiated with or worked with people from Beckham to Kournikova? (http://www.globomedia.biz, http://www.globosports.biz/aboutus.html).
Still not enough cred? Do an internet search for my name. I'm sure you'll find a few interviews around (http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=Anirban+Blah&meta= or http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=Anirban+Das+Blah&meta=).
Hopefully, enough reson to convince you that when there is a discussion on "commercial reasons" in sport, I'm on slightly steadier ground than most.

Instead of throwing the insults around, or stating opinions with no facts to back them, or taking out-of context historical track records and extrapolating the same to calculate current value (remember it's my living to calculate "current value" for sportspersons and celebrities, and I know better than most how it's done, which is why I got so far so fast in this business), or calling people idiots for knowing more than you do about a topic... do yourself a favour,get yourself a worldview.

 

Oh yes, let's not forget the USA... another potentially huge, largely English speaking market.

 

I didn't know you were in the business, anirbanblah. Pretty cool.

Well, it certainly hurts to see Eto'o do so well for other teams. But the fact reamins, at a certain point, Eto'o refused to play for RM. If he had been treated differently two years ago, the story might have been different. But by last summer, Eto'o had stated he would never play for RM & became a hero to Barcelona for his stance. Heck, even if we released Pavon, he will no douby have killer games against us from now on. That is one of the problems RM has, too many quality players under our banner & then some of these players end up hating us when they don't play.

 

Lockjaw - Sky Sports only lead with it in a headline as they also have the rights to cover Spanish football and a headline costs them nothing. You don't see clips of Owen's goals on terrestrial tv or anything like that.

Are you kidding? Woodgate already proved himself ever since his debut as a superb defender at Leeds (pre financial collapse) and at Newcastle, both clubs which were top 4/5 in his time with them and who were considerably bigger than Zaragoza (with all due respect to them). Add into that Woodgate's form for Leeds in their run to the Champions League semi-final and then to the UEFA cup semi-final the following year, and then the UEFA cup semi-final with Newcastle - So these aren't top level competitions outside England?? Which in itself is one of the top 3 leagues in Europe?

As for England, he has been unlucky with injuries, even then Eriksson said publically just prior to Euro 2004 that even with his injuries Woodgate was a certain selection if fit. Woodgate is one of the few players in English history to have been capped in a competitive game for England in the same year as making his professional debut for his club. He would be 3rd choice ahead of Terry and would put a lot of pressure on Ferdinand and Campbell for inclusion in the starting XI if his form and fitness is strong.

To say that he has not proven himself comparable to Ferdinand, despite playing alongside him at Leeds is untrue. Feel free to ask any genuine Leeds supporter which defender they rated higher and would rather have kept - the answer is invariably Woodgate.

I can see we're going to have to go down the same road with Woodgate as we did with Owen. Where a certain number of people will dismiss him, until of course he gets on the pitch and proves them wrong, at which point said peopel will go very quiet other than the odd muttering of the fictional "marketing benefits" of a convicted criminal.

 

I don't have time to also wade through your highly opinionated piece which is extremely lacking in hard facts and balance.

One thing I will say is that your comment about your job does not impress or fool me at all. If you were that involved you (a) would not be posting on BigSoccer and (b) you would be posting a lot more intelligently and convincingly. I have seen your type before, no doubt some glorified office boy at an outsourced multinational subsidiary.

Owen is a class above Eto'o, always has been and always be regardless of your attempts to try and narrow the terms to fit your point of view. I'm sorry that wounds you so deeply being such a loyal fan of the club from India. Although I do thank you for the amusement of comparing the African player of the year award with the European player of year award - which is open to anyone who plays in Europe including Eto'o. I also thank the people who have pointed out that Owen playing for Liverpool has been some kind of huge advantage when Liverpool have been well below standard for the last few years in terms of creativity for their strikers.

Once again I will wait until the end of the season and be proven right. Just as I waited the first couple of months of the season to see those people dismissing Owen to be proven wrong. Patience is a virtue.

 

I think few regulars dispute that both Woodgate and Owen are excellent players and if they do perform at their peak most of us will be very happy. No one is dismissing them or their ability.It's just the idea that there was no one available in Spain at the same price that I dispute.

And visit Asia and do a reality check. Despite the fact that the victim was an Asian, very few people know or remember the Leeds incident. Remember the average Asian "fan" has been following football recently, since the marketing really took off in 2002. People like Escape Goat and me who have longer-term memory are much more rare. That's why however well they play, you will never see me in a Woodgate or Bowyer T-shirt, but that won't stop most people in Asia.

I will however be happy if and when Woodgate plays well. As a 20million US$ defender, I think he is supposed to, so I don't see what points will be proven if he does. At that price, he'd better be playing at a level close to Puyol or Ayala... same goes for samuel.

 

I'll be the happiest guy around if at the end of the season Owen scores more goals than Eto'o (if you track back, you will see that I was among those who felt Owen should have started ahead of raul earlier in the season). And I'll be happy to say I was wrong and you were right, that Owen is a better buy than Eto'o would have been.
But sadly, I doubt it's gonna happen. I do believe that Owen will be successful in Madrid and score lots of goals. But I doubt anyone will touch Eto'o this year.