¤ Chivas- America... (Before/During/ After) [R] ¤

Discussion in 'Mexico' started by Makaveli 13, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Member+

    Aug 21, 2003
    MEX2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    The Future?

    I was in a house full of Americanistas with only 4 or 5 fellow Chivas (I dislike "Chivista" for some reason).

    Awesome game.

    2 words:

    Memo Ochoa.

    When I showed up, a few minutes after the 1st goal (which I watched at my pad alone), everyone was hootin' and hollerin'. Accordingly, I had my grand entrance commenting on the goal. "Peor, el que me cae mas gordo."

    Pardo, aside from his sweet longball to Piojo, was crap.

    Pardo, Davino, Salinas = Yeah. Nothing needs to be said.

    Kleber and Piojo goofed on so many balls, it was funny.

    Piojo's goal was nice but obviously unseen. Thanks, Univision.
    *Remind me that if I ever make it, I'll buy my own direct feed exclusive of Televisa/TVAzteca.*

    Cuauh was amazing. Anyone who still thinks he is miserable and unworthy of the hype and/or spot in the national XI is on drugs.

    From the television broadcast, it appeared that America far dominated Chivas - in the stands.

    Heh, no.

    I thought America's attacking was superb. Free, fluid, flowing, roaming. Finishing is another story.

    Bofo and Bravo were pathetic.

    Okay, next.

    Palencia. What can I say? I hate him. Nice opportunistic 2nd goal.

    Oswaldo should not have started. I don't care. San Oswaldo, you can take a seat. That goes for the national team, too.

    Medina should have been booted for the come-from-behind tackle on Piojo.

    Reynoso's goal was beautiful, Hail Mary or not. No bloop on Memo's part.

    Chivas laid down an onslaught in the second half that was easily deceiving. We did not play a good game; we did enough to equalize. I agree that more time would have brought about a clear winner, but this isn't that kind of sport.

    Maza.

    Maza.

    Maza.

    Kill me already.

    **************************************************
    One of the best games I've seen all year.
    One of the best individual performances from any keeper all year.
    One of the more memorable Clasicos in many years.
    **************************************************

    Maybe I'm the only one, but, to me, Ochoa is not the future.

    He's the goddamn present.

    What needs to happen here?
     
  2. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Re: The Future?

    He needs to mature more as a keeper thats what needs to happen. Many people get easily awed by Ochoas reflexes which indeed are very good however he still needs to have more prescence in the box. There were two instances in the match that i feel he could have resolved better. At one point Ochoa looked undecided as i believe Davino was next to him in a divided ball that a stumbling Palencia managed to keep and take a shot, Ochoa recovered and was lucky that Palencia shot it right at his hands.

    The second was a similiar situation however less threatening but the defender just booted the ball out, that could of easily been Ochoas. That said i still dont think hes better than Oswaldo who not only is more experienced but has more prescence in the box. Many times it seems as if Ochoas own teamates dont listen to him.. . Anyways Memo is just 19 years old and can only improve and become a more complete keeper..
     
  3. Rafael Hernandez

    Rafael Hernandez Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 6, 2002
    Re: The Future?

    I don´t know what happened in Univision but Televisa screwed the goal. They had that stupid lateral view cam and they switched it to late to the normal cam and missed the goal. So the ball was already in the net. They knew they screwed up becuase in La Jugada they used the normal camera view but they screwed up in the telecast.
     
  4. socluis90

    socluis90 Member+

    Aug 11, 2004
    So Cal
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: The Future?

    anyone know if there would ever be a re-run or if its available online to watch anywhere cuz this is one of the best games ive ever seen
     
  5. Chiquitibum

    Chiquitibum Member+

    Apr 4, 2004
    Norte
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: The Future?

    univision doesnt replay games that ive seen, only goltv, fse or telemundo sometimes.
     
  6. Deleted USer

    Deleted USer Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Re: The Future?

    galavision does replay the matches
     
  7. aguilas

    aguilas New Member

    Dec 17, 2004
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Club América
    Re: The Future?

    Yeah that is going to be on later.
     
  8. Chiquitibum

    Chiquitibum Member+

    Apr 4, 2004
    Norte
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    Re: The Future?

    what is going to be on later?

    superclasico?

    time and date please, thx
     
  9. Machetazo

    Machetazo Member

    Mar 20, 2002
    L.A.
    You surely must be talking about Ochoa and Muñoz.

    A worthy mention goes to Cirilo Saucedo.
     
  10. amanzo81

    amanzo81 Member

    Apr 30, 2003
    home
    Club:
    Club América
    Re: The Future?


    I dont really agree with this idea about goal keepers. True, experience can be a valuable assest to have, but I dont think so much empahsis should be placed on it. The only way a player can get better is to be out on the field. How would Memo get experience angainst world class competition if he doesnt get a chance to play on the national team. If he is "too young" to play in meaningful games, why not call him up for some of these worthless friendlies that Mexico plays so often? Lavolpe always says he plays the younger players, so why not give memo a chance. We've seen what el conejo is capable of, and its not pretty.



    I do agree with you on this one. A few times last torneo I remember seeing Ochoa yell at Piojo repeatedly to set up on the wall. Piojo wouldn't even look his way. Very frustrating to watch. Although, this season, I haven't seen it happen once. Judging from their onfield interactions, it seems like Davino and Cuah have bought into Ochoa and are getting the rest of the team behind him.
     
  11. aguilas

    aguilas New Member

    Dec 17, 2004
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Club América
    Re: The Future?

    Are you talking about the word "Chivista"?

    What about that sick goal?

    Pardo played good, he directly influenced the score twice, Salinas and Davino were average.

    I guess, they could have won it easily.

    That must have sucked, but in the stadium it looked like he missed it, it took all of us like 2-3 seconds to realize that it was a goal

    i agree

    It wasn't even close, it had to be at least 6-7 Americanistas to 1 Chiva

    Heh, no.

    Agree

    When Americas defense fell apart they missed many clear chances.

    This is an honest question, i was all the way on the other side of the stadium so i didn't get a good look at it, did Palencia mean to hit it or did it bounce off of him???

    WHy did they put him in?? He had 1 week of training and Talavera was playing very good.
     
  12. FGarcia1

    FGarcia1 New Member

    Jul 25, 2003
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Re: The Future?

    That's something I'd love to know; his first goal was good, but the second seemed like he got lucky--like he *just happened* to be at the right place to change the ball's trajectory. Personally, I don't think he meant to have any interaction with the ball.
     
  13. Hugo Sanchez

    Hugo Sanchez Member+

    Aug 21, 2003
    MEX2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Fuera Capello!

    I hate the word "Chivista" and prefer just "Chiva."

    And, yeah, Palencia's 2nd goal was totally botched. Granted, he was at the right place at the right time but c'mon. It seemed like he wanted to click his heels in the air, instead of shooting. The ball must've come in too quick for him because all he managed to do was jump in the air, shake his legs together and then the ball was deflected off his shin and into the far post. A shocker, really.

    Going off memory, Cuauh was infinitely more important to America's game than Pardo. Cuauh had 2 assists, did he not? Surely, he dropped the ball off to Pavel on the first one, but I don't remember exactly if he assisted Rojas. I do seem to remember it this way.

    The reason they put in Oswaldo is the same reason why the seleccion and Chivas (yesterday) have the same mentality as Various Styles.

    The retarded, age old Mexican mentality.

    Without getting into it too much, I'd like to rhetorically ask why some are pointing out the two instances where Memo looked uncertain in play-resolving and not the 5 CLEAR stops that directly saved America from worsening an already deceiving scoreline.

    Oswaldo has so much experience, so much presence.

    That's why he seems to choke in big matches for the Nat'l. team.

    That's why Brazil walked all over him.

    I just don't fully feel comfortable with Oswaldo in goal.

    Never have.

    But, then the argument is made that it's just one match, right?

    Yeah. So what happens next? These same people pip Memo for Talavera.

    Kind of reminds of you that other situation.

    You know, "Bocon Sr. talks too much, not enough action. Only X amount of titles. He still needs to prove himself. [a couple of seconds later in the very same conversation.] Personally, I'd like to see Cangrejo #3 as a possible candidate." [Keep in mind that Cangrejo Part III has no titles to speak of.]

    Wha... ?

    Ochoa's 19, he's good, oh wait, he must mature more.

    Always holding talent back, we are. (STFUFC, this one's for you.)

    And Muñoz/Corona do not make things any easier. But, and this is a very big but, I'd rather see them between the posts than that joke of a keeper, Oscar Perez.

    Tantos jovenes, tan gran proceso, nada de experimentos.

    I'm sick of this crap.
     
  14. Coster

    Coster Member

    Apr 21, 2003
    Hermosa Beach
    Re: Fuera Capello!

    Yeah Cuauh stole the ball from Kleber, took it to the right side of the goal bringing out Oswaldo, and then chipped it back over to Rojas who put it in.
     
  15. aguilas

    aguilas New Member

    Dec 17, 2004
    San Francisco
    Club:
    Club América
    Re: Fuera Capello!

    Pardo had an assist and a goal. Cuahtemoc had 2 assists i think.
     
  16. Various Styles

    Various Styles Member+

    Mar 1, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    CD Chivas de Guadalajara
    Re: Fuera Capello!

    Those two indecisions can prove costly against top notch oponents.. Like Raul Rodrigo Lara failing to clear a shot in the World Cup against Germany. The five clear stops werent that impressive imho, except for the last shot, the rest were shot right at him.


    Unfortunately Oswaldo hasnt had many "Big Matches" with the National team. Only under the Lavolpe era has he truly been the regular keeper. More on the subject below.. .

    Oswaldo did indeed play a poor match but then again so did the majority of el Tri. What about the match against Argentina, he didnt do so bad there.. Aside from those two matches and his clean sheet at Azteca for the Gold Cup i dont really see any other Big Matches with the National team that he has played in.


    I dont see how Ochoa is being held back because he is not the number one keeper in the seleccion.. He allready had the chance to "captain" the U-20, a bad choice imho since Ochoa doesnt seem to have the attitude to lead a team. Anyways had the team played any better he would of had the chance to play the Youth World Cup in Holland. Ochoa should be lock for the next Olympics and by then would most likely have competed in the Gold Cup.
     
  17. Solid444

    Solid444 Member+

    Jun 21, 2003
    I dont know who i agree with about Ochoa vs. Oswaldo but this Oswaldo bashing is stupid.

    Ochoa cannot be the number one in the national team, he does not have the experience. Remember that a year and a half ago he was unknown, he didnt even play in the U-17 World Cup. By the time that it was known how good he was, Oswaldo was already set at starting, so this talk about Ochoa being number one is stupid.

    What is even worse, is to say that Talavera should have played instead of Oswaldo. Oswaldo has experience (and whoever said that experience should not mean a lot, you couldnt be more wrong). Oswaldo is more of a leader on the field than Talavera. Talavera also showed a huge laps of concentration when he play last year's classico that led to a goal.

    From a National Team perspective, I am glad Oswaldo will get two games in before the U.S. match. And yes, as of now, he is the best goalie in Mexico
     
  18. gvfatlas

    gvfatlas Member

    Oct 6, 2004
    GDL
    Club:
    CF Atlas Guadalajara
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    I think it was a pretty good game, I'm not gonna try to get into the Oswaldo/Ochoa controversy but I think Ochoa saved America's butt several times, but I think Oswaldo had a pretty good game except for the first goal(even though I think his visibility was blocked by one of his own def.)
     
  19. jared9999

    jared9999 Member+

    Jan 3, 2005
    Naucalpan Estado de Mex
    Club:
    Club América
    Nat'l Team:
    Mexico
    if it was not for talavera america would have won 3-0. he blocked cuau's penalty!! talavera was the player of the match. america dominated both halfs in that game
     

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