There are only a small number (most of them in NY and Jerusalem) who do not recognize Israel, and they are all sick in the head. Now, I already told you, that you are a Zionist as well because you want Jews to have a homeland, so stop self-criticizing yourself and maybe you will find tha us Zionists have more in common.
Black-Hat Land. I'm helping some family members go to Yeshivas and I promise you the reason isn't because I want them to keep strict kosher. No, it's not clear at all. It's clear that they don't view it as a substitute to the return of the Davidic dynasty. It's also clear that they couldn't stand the secular Zionist Jewish leadership. I count 10. The other 18 would turn Israel into a real Jewish state.
do you type just to read your own writings? He said "most." That means more than 50%. That is a ridiculous statement. what you said is absolutely true? But not related to the point he made. He said "most." His was a silly and ignorant statement.
This is one of the sickest statements I have read on big soccer. To intimate for even a slight moment that people would look at the holocaust as a positive event because it gained Jews a homeland is just sick. You are really a sick and disgusting human being.
\ Let's vote: The above post is a) pure propoganda b) the ravings of a lunatic c) not even worth commenting on.
Who said the holocaust was a positive thing ? The events that lead after the holocaust were positive for Jews and was the dream of every European Jew . If you cant accept the truth then you have a problem , if Hitler didn’t kill 6 million Jews there wouldn’t be a country named Israel today and the ME wouldn’t be so destabilized . They were given a free country as a compensation for all the crimes Hitler and the Europeans committed against the Jews and that’s the truth and if the truth hurts you so much then you should lie more often .
Do you know when the Zionist movement began? I'll give you a hint - it was not even in the 20th century, but earlier, before Hitler ever was even thinking about the Final Solution. I vote for d) all of the above
The return of Jews to their homeland, now called Israel, occurred for many reasons. At best, and I say at best, the holocaust was a factor. But there were many reasons not the least of which was the historic claim, the fact that the areas apportioned to the Jews were those areas where Jews were the majority, and many other reasons that you will reject out of hand.
Why do we have to be so extreme????? We can do much better with some well thought-thru "political & social engineering".
In Israel, political parties which explicitly deny the legitimacy of the state of Israel as a Jewish homeland, are illegal. They cannot participate in the political process. Hence, those Israelis (Jews as well as Arabs) who are strictly anti-Zionist either cannot participate in the political process or are left to vote for parties who are merely implicitly anti-Zionist. Additionally, for reasons of principle, there are hundreds of thousands of observant Jews who don't vote in Israeli elections as they see such a participation as confirming legitimacy on a state that they find sinful. That essentially means that even those religious groups and political parties which used to have anti-Zionist affiliations have had to adjust their stance, as the explicitly anti Zionist Jews don't vote, leaving them with religious Jews who are either uninterested in foreign policy issues or those who fully willing to nonetheless participate in Israel's sinful ways. In this dynamic, naturally the latter (right wing nuts) take the forefront on foreign policy issues since (a) those who are very strict anti Zionists don't vote; (b) many of those who are anti Zionist but do vote are nonetheless ideologically opposed to participation in foreign policy issues; and (c) the vocal minority that is right wing on both religion/state and foreign policy issues is the only one willing to switch votes based on Israeli foreign policy. Anyway, the main point that I wanted to make from all this is to highlight how being against Zionism is not something that is peculiar to Iran and Ahamdinejad. Leaving aside that it was only under US pressure and threats regarding the peace process that the UN General Assembly revoked its "Zionism=Racism" resolution and that attitude still finds itself in many other UN sponsored resolutions, and leaving aside the fact that Zionism was itself a minority creed among Jews certainly before the Holocaust, the fact is that even today a substantial number of Jews (secular as well as religious) recognize that this ideology is incoherent and worse.
IM, stop being such a denier, you are a Zionist from head to toe and you don't even know about it. You take these matter too harshly. Just move to Israel and join one of those "illegal" parties and all your problems would be solved.
Here is a bit more on what kind of political parties and candidates are not allowed to participate in Israeli elections. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/...ntrassID=28&subContrassID=2&sbSubContrassID=0
Zionism in the broad sense has always been fundamental to Judaism. The only real debate is about tactics. It's understandable that many secular Jews did not want to appear too eager to support an endeavour that seemed doomed to failure. The "non-Zionist" Black Hats who don't recognize secular Jewish authority also generally would be against any territorial compromise with the Palestinians and would force feed strict Jewish law down the throats of everyone living in Israel. Many of them refuse to serve in the Israeli army, but I can assure would happily join the Jewish equivalent of the Revolutionary Guards. I just hope I'm not on this message board in the future defending the Supreme Leader of Israel. However, the Orthodox are the ones having lots of children and not assimilating. They're the ones who will keep the tribe going come hell or high water.
Now that's just crazy that in a country surrounded by many enemies, it's not allowed to have a representative body which helps those enemies and does not recognize its right to existence.
Three points 1) to Odessit-- why so you suppor Jean Marie.. oops I mean Avigdor Lieberman. He is a bona fide racist who wants to illegally expell all non-Jews from Israel by population transfer. That is illegal under international law, and it makes him a man who deals in fantasy. 2) to Iranian Monitor-- wrong, Israel actually funds all parties which run for election. Hadash, Balad, and Ra'am all get campaign money. The later two explicitly do not want zionist states and want the right of return for all Arabs. Hadash as a communist party is somewhat anti-zionist too. Show me another state where the government funds parties that support policies which would fundamentally alter the state. You sure don't find that with the mad mullahs in Iran who have systematically helped to drive minorities from the country with their ultra-religious policies (yah I know zoroastrians, jews, assyrians and armenians get token political seats-- but they are dhimmis, 2nd class Iranians under sharia). 3) Valdanjak-- by your comparison do the Azeri regions of Iran deserve to leave Iran. What about the Kurdish and Arabic parts. How did those pieces of land come into Persian dominated Iran. Israel was founded before anyone was calling themselves Palestinian. The first Palestinians were Jewish people (the jerusalem post used to be the palestine post). Between 1948-67 there were no Palestinians as people considered themselves jordanian and egyptian. Israel was given a democratic mandate to exist by the UN, and then had to define its borders through war. Many other states have done that when attacked.
Yeah, go figure, you can't join the government of a country if you deny that country's right to exist. Amazing. Next thing you tell me Iran has the same rules, and you probably can't even run on a platform of dumping the mullahs!
Nice post... My answer is that Lieberman is very tough on terrorism and especially after the fiasco with Hezbollah, Israelis need a strog leader who will not make the same mistakes as Olmert, who is not corupt as Olmert and who has balls to do what is necessary to protect Israel from her enemies. As for displacement of all non-Jews, I don't agree, but IMO he's just trying to get more votes from the far right in Israel, because everyone else felt into the whole Kadima centrist idea with Sharon leaving the scene.
Faulty Analogy. Iran is a multiethnic, multicultural society which has never been exclusively dominated by any ethnic group. An Azeri is Iran's head of state, an Arab will never be Israel's head of state.