Geeze, I guess I need to dust off my crystal ball- and then I better be right-the-fcuk-on- and see what is going to happen if Becks and Posh come to the New World to play the Beautiful Game. There are no arguments to say it WILL be successful. The closest thing you can argue is the Pele experience with the Cosmos, but these many years on in the US, no one knows who Pele was and that he played in a PROFESSIONAL soccer league here. (The US had a PROFESSIONAL SOCCER LEAGUE??!?!) I mean, it was good enough that people like George Best came over. And folks even went to see them. I won't ask you to prove a negative (Which can't be done) and tell me why it wouldn't work again- especially following a better, more consistent model than the harem-scarem ways of the old NASL. Anyhow, that's about the best I've got.
Well, you weren't going to ask, but I'll do it anyway. You realize that the NASL didn't actually own the players' contracts, right? These guys were just, basically, playing in the offseason while their clubs back in Europe still owned their contracts. It was a part-time gig.....a summer league....it wasn't their real job. MLS isn't run that way....they own the contracts, at the very least they have a loan agreement. But no one is signing a 4 month contract and then getting to go back to Europe in August just as the stretch run is gearing up. Not to mention that in this day and age, the lawyers that run the major European clubs would never allow their stars to risk injury by "moonlighting" for another team in the offseason. They already want National teams to pay a % of the players' wages.
First of all, I think Becks would have a bigger impact than Freddy Adu for the simple fact that many more people know who he is. Also, Becks is already a known soccer entity. Freddy was a novelty. His exposure was as much for his age and hype as it was for his skills. And for all of those saying that Freddy did not impact attendance, you're wrong. Frankly, Freddy did fill seats his first year. The best indication of this is the fact that DC United blew every team away in attendance on the road in 2004. DC also had their best home crowds in years. And don't try to tell me the bump was due to the fact that the team was a championship caliber team. The fact is that United was mediocre all season until Gomez came and sparked the team on to the championship. STATS: TEAM ATTENDANCE REPORT 2004 ROAD GAMES AVERAGE Chicago Fire - 15,196 Colorado Rapids - 17,233 Columbus Crew - 12,578 Dallas Burn - 13,255 D.C. United - 23,686 Kansas City Wizards - 13,714 Los Angeles Galaxy - 14,494 MetroStars - 13,315 New England Revolution - 16,482 San Jose Earthquakes - 15,634 MLS Totals 15,559
Where did I ever suggest that MLS follow the lead of NASL? What you say is not only factual, but I believe makes sense, too. That is not to say that some of these guys might not follow Beckham's lead, as I have already stated before. My guess it would -at least in the beginning, if not for a very long time- be those that are in the twilight of their careers, still want to play, but don't want the intense scrutiny they get in the 'big leagues.' Yeah, I am predicting media interest here, but there will be much less tabloid mania in the States. And think about it: the U.S. is a pretty damned good place to live, the taxes aren't completely ridiculous and MLS is putting into place venues that won't kill these guys if they decide to walk onto the pitch. I, on the other hand, get tired of being stalked by the media, so I am moving to Somalia.
Come on - you do like to argue don't you? Off the top of my head: 1. Played in 3 World Cups. 2. Played for Man U and Real Madrid 3. Captain of England 4. Hot and hip guy. 5. Hot and hip wife 6. Family man with 3 kids 7. Known worldwide with HUGE sponsors Freddy Adu is like Hansen compared to Beckham's U2. Beckham is the biggest soccer personality on the planet and has been for at least 5 years. And he is still only 31. I can agree with this. Let's hope they outsource it. Actually I am quite sure that adidas and whoever else will quickly take it over. This would be too important for the MLS marekting interns. I say do it - he is the perfect storm just as MLS needs to raise its profile and its stadiums open. It just can't be the only move. Other teams will need to add quality players or otherwise it will be just a travelling circus - great for his team home crowds and great for the away teams hosting - but for a long lasting effect these new fans will need to see better soccer if we expect them to stick around after Becks hangs it up. Otherwise this is just Pele II - and Pele I ended badly.
Well, you stated that, like with Pele, players would follow Becks over to the states. What I was pointing out was the extreme difference in the economic climates that makes such a widespread immigration of talent impossible today. Remember, MLS tried the aging former superstar thing in the beginning...there is a good reason they went away from that. I don't expect them to go back to the well anytime soon. Becks is in a league of his own. What other current player brings the name recognition of the general populace that he does? Or even 1/3 of it?
As far as the average, soccer novice is concerned, 1-3 is relatively meaningless. I know that sounds crazy to us soccer fans, but it's pretty realistic. They were all sold the idea that Adu was a superstar, too, remember? 4 and 5 are nice, but, again, his hotness and hipness wasn't enough for the Gillette corp. to re-new his endorsement deal after a whole 2 months. 6 gets you nothing.....it's only good if 1-5 mean something, and I don't think they really do. 7, talk to Gillette about how that translates to these here shores. Great, now, how does that effect Joe 6-pack and make him skip NCAA Saturday games, NASCAR races and NFL games on the tube? Hey, I say do it, too. I'm just way on the other side of expectations from most of you people. And here lies the problem. Who really thinks that all the ownership groups, or even one other ownership groups, is willing to do this when only Red Bull has actually expressed real interest?
Yes, but the effect was fleeting, by his 2nd season the numbers had come down considerably. Again, the point was LASTING effect. I'm quite sure Beckham will boost attendances temporarily. But so would handing out $20 bills to every attendee...and they would both cost you the same amount of money and neither would do crap for the long term popularity of the league.
Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and maybe you heard about a guy this summer that got a little world press .... Zidane.
Beckham would have a huge lasting effect on the popularity of the game - new fans, new money, new excitement. But is the MLS ready for that kind of circus and what comes afterwards? I don't think they are ready for that kind of environement when there is still expansion, and teams without owners, teams without sss's and other issues hanging around.
And of the people whose sole knowledge of the game stems from "Bend it Like Beckham" and reading about them in US Weekly, how many have ever heard of Ronaldinho? Beckham's Q rating has got to be multiples of those others. And it's somewhat reasonable to be talking about Beckham coming to the US when he is clearly on the downswing of his career, and is more of a marketing asset than a playing one, it's another universe of expense to be talking about any of those others. Come on, people, let's at least keep this discussion in the realm of even quasi-reasonability.
Says you.....I'm willing to bet large sums of cash that you are highly over-exaggerating the net effect here. You want the list of things that were going to propel soccer to new and fabulous heights but didn't? I'd be glad to supply them for you. Honestly, the adidas and ESPN deals that have been signed over the last two years are much more important to the future of this league than any single player signing will be.
The NY Sun article says Beckham does not mind be a gay icon. If he comes to Dallas, a new supporters group will be formed. They will be called the Fruit Hoops.
Mind your own effin' business Zen. This is getting pretty good. I mean, you can't make sh!t like this up. Let em go....
You are right on the silly Q ratings but I have nothing to base soccer attendance based on those. I will suggest that most informed fans know who Ronaldinho is and since a lot of those are Hispanics the league and club are trying to bring out he would be as big a boost. He is also a much better player at this time. Concerning downsides of careers, both Ronny and ZZ have seen much better days. Leaving aside Ronaldinho, I wonder how much left the others have (inclunding Beckham). I know the skill is still there but running around in US summer heat getting hacked and grabbed while MLS refs look the other way might be harder than they think.
But the argument is that Becks is going to bring out people whom have never been to an MLS or soccer game and they will get hooked. So there really is no historical data to pull from since THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED IN THE HISTORY OF SPORTS MARKETING. They came out for Hugo Sanchez too....but then never came back. Again, lasting effect....lasting effect.
Probably true, but I'm not comparing the long term benefits of signing a player vs. tv and product deals. Beckham would bring new fans, and new excitement - and some fans would stay interested once he leaves too.
No, you weren't....but it's interesting how people gloss over those developments in order to waste gobs of newsprint on a hypothetical deal that probably won't happen. It's a nice fantasy....even though I know better, I hope you are right.
The point is that, in the case of Freddy, he has likely generated enough revenue to more than cover his salary. On top of that, he got MLS a lot of exposure in the media, and surely some of the fans he drew stuck around. Most of my friends that do not follow soccer, knowing that I have DC United season tickets, still ask me about Freddy on a fairly regular basis. When these same friends go to games with me, they usually ask if Freddy will be playing. All of this three years after the initial hype. I still contend that comparing Freddy to Becks is comparing apples to oranges. Freddy was over-hyped, unproven novelty. People were sucked in thinking they would see a 14 year old kid run circles around professional adults. When some people realized they were sold a bill of goods, they lost interest. But they still paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to see him at least once. And some of them stuck around. As long as Becks is marketed correctly (sold as is, not as some out of this world goal scorer), he should provide a better, longer lasting draw than Freddy did. I am not saying he will propel soccer to the number one sport in the USA. Nothing is going to do that in the short term. But, at the right price, he will provide a short term boom in exposure and attendance. And, even when the hype dies down there will be SOME lasting positive effect. The question is how substantial that lasting effect will be.
Yet league average attendance has not improved dramatically. For all the hype the net effect is discernable and can certainly be chalked up to a number of factors. New stadiums, World Cup hype, etc. Your friends ask you about Freddy, but how many have become or will become season ticket holders. The league has not grown because of Freddy nor will it grow because of Beckham. And you don't think people will feel like they've been sold a bill of goods when they realize Beckham isn't the greatest soccer player of all time, that he's just the most well known?? And again, your "Some of them stuck around" argument is NOT backed up by actual attendance data. How long do you really expect Beckham to hang around MLS? 2 seasons? 3 at most? Meanwhile Adu will already be entering his 3rd MLS season...and he will soon become a fixture of the USMNT. I think you are off on this. Yup, you got the question right...but you are a little aggressive on the answer.
TexG, why do you think Beckham wouldnt be such a good player in the MLS? MLS isn't the Spanish League or Premiereship, do you think? Why would you compare the popularity of one of the biggest celebrities on earth with Freddie Adu? There's no comparison. Why wouldn't a limited engagement of Beckham-mania not attract more fans long term? What kind of historical attendence data do you refer to that supports your view that no fans would stick with the MLS once Beckham leaves? Please explain, because I can't think of a single equivalent Beckham-type scenario myself - then again I am a new fan.