I've posted in this thread a few times regarding MLL, and how it might help MLS (or hurt it). Today I ran across this article that has a couple of interesting quotes: http://www.connpost.com/Stories/0,1413,96%7E3761%7E770001,00.html First of all, MLL is aiming to be the 5th major sport in the US, just like MLS hopes to be. However, the MLL Championship match is being held at Columbus Crew Stadium on Sept 1st with the hopes of maybe putting a franchise there soon......which in a lot of ways could help the Crew make more money (I would think). So my question is this......would MLL and MLS make a good partnership? Is professional lacrosse a sport that would work as tenants of any SSS's that pop up? I don't recall the field having many lines, like gridiron, but you never know. I just wonder that if MLL were to someday want to play in Columbus Crew Stadium, or the upcoming LA stadium, or hopeful ones in NY or Dallas....should MLS take the money and run since it would help the league's bottom line? I believe the Rochester Rattlers already coexist with the Rhinos, so I guess it might work. http://www.majorleaguelacrosse.com/ And sorry if this has been posted already, I couldn't find it.
Coexistence One thing that I have noticed in my hometown is that lacrosse is harder on the field than soccer. We used to have a gorgeous field that only hosted soccer games. Now they play lacrosse there as well and the condition of the field has definitely been affected. It would bring more money into the fold but how much would it affect the quality of the product for MLS if the field is in poor shape.
Re: Coexistence Lacrosse has a tendency to be played around the goal mouth. You can go behind the goal like hockey, and there is not much midfield play. As a result the goal area has a tendency to wear out very quickly.
This is interesting--and I think he is dead on when it comes to sports fans in this country. MLS should look at this very closely--because soccer does, indeed, have all of these elements. They should try as hard as they can to make soccer "exciting (on-field play), sexy (keep making them take their shirts off), cool (keep the young players coming up--Landon Donovan, etc.), hip (see previous comment), fast and hard (more on-field play). We all know soccer is all of these things, they just need to tell the rest of the populace what we already know. I suppose this is a very long-winded way of saying that soccer needs to market itself like mad to appear like all of these things...
I know that we have (had?) a MLL franchise here in DC but I read that the owner was threatening to move it because their attendance was so horrible.
I don't see how any lacrosse league has enough influence to make an MLS "partnership" worthwhile. Most MLS fans haven't even heard of lacrosse. That is, there are a total of four MLS teams in markets where lacrosse exists: NY, DC, maybe Boston and extremely marginally Columbus. Everywhere else, lacrosse is a zero to fringe sport played by a handful of private academies. MLL has not been very successful either. In its best markets like Rochester, Baltimore and LI, it is drawing about 3-4,000 fans per game. - Kevin
Will professional outdoor lacrosse be around in two or three years? MLL averaged 3876 fans a game last year, that's down nearly 6% this season to 3666 fans a game. The league's television coverage consists exclusively of time-buys. There's very little room for successful expansion because lacrosse is such a regional sport. It's not like MLS - there really isn't a huge upside. At some point, Steinfeld, Robertson, and the sponsors are going to get sick of losing money. I like lacrosse - used to play, watch it on TV when I can, even went to the MLL showcase event at Crew Stadium. Don't think for a second I don't want MLL to succeed. But I think it would be a bad idea to hitch our wagon to MLL. It's just too much of a niche product. There's just not enough guys like me out there.
It's just a strange looking game. How do you challenge a guy with the ball in his basket? I've watched it and there is no dribbling -- in the football or basketball sense -- or takling in the gridiron sense. I guess you can block with the sticks. It's kind of like aerial hockey, only it preceeded hockey because it was played by the northeast Indian tribes. It still seems to be a game of the northeast, mainly. I don't think it has much of an international dimension like soccer. This promoter is very enthusiastic, and Columbus offers an attractive venue. The wear and tear on the field is not encouraging, period.
MLL would kill to have the attendance and exposure that mls has. If people say soccer is a niche sport, then lacrosse is a glitch sport. I live in NJ and even here hardly any high schools even have teams and there's hardly any youth leagues. Jayson Williams of the Nets I know owns the NJ franchise. He was saying they get like 2000 a game. I personally have nothing against lacrosse or anything, but I don't really see how teaming with them could help MLS much.
International play is pretty much confined to the USA, Canada, Iroquois, and Australia. Other countries try to play, but it's a bit like watching the Japanese national ice hockey team or the Russian national baseball team.
Re: Re: Coexistence yep. it will tear the field up around the goal...which if played on a soccer field, would be right around the top of the 6 yard box... we will all find out what it does to a field following the championship game played at crew stadium september 1st. and seeing how the crew has a great groundscrew i am can only hope it doesnt do too much damage... but following the destruction football all-star games (the pointy kind) and nsync concert have done in the past, i am not too thrilled about the idea...
There are many pretenders to the throne of "Fifth Major Sport", but it may in fact be that there won't be a "Fifth Major Sport" because there's no room for a "Fifth Major Sport". MLL says they want to be the 5MS. MLS says they want to be the 5MS. The MISL says it wants to be the 5MS. Soccer is a niche sport, but lacrosse is a microniche sport. The indoor game does very, very well in some cities (especially in Toronto), but I wouldn't run right out and invest in that, either. And Hunt had the chance to do just that---they held one of their "showcase" MLL games at CCS before they started the league and got like 4400 people or something. Good luck to them, they have at least a solid business plan and have done some good things for a startup league in a sport most Americans know nothing about. If there was a team near me, I'd go check it out at least. But in terms of what it means or what it could do for or to MLS, I wouldn't give it a second thought.
Lacrosse is generally a regional sport. this is true. lacrosse tears up the pitch. I not so sold on this one. Lacrosse is maybe a bit tougher on the pitch than soccer, however not enough to stress out a professional grounds crew. In MLS we play about 1.2 games per week, and half of them at home. lacrosse is about the or slightly more frequent I would immagine. With any skill at schedueling the team owners could ensure plenty of time for repair and re-growth. as the football stadiums always seem to look nice on TV (no matter when last game was) Also owners can increase intrest in both teams by cross promotion as well as improve attendance. through co-operation and doubleheaders. Think about an extra 3-4000 coming early and catching some soccer while maybe 5000 stay longer and learn something about lacrosse, all the while buying food, DRINK, and team apparel. The MLS cannot afford to miss out on revenue streams. If I were a MLS, or even A-league owner i would make sure I had as many other teams in my stadium as possible. as long as they had their own practice fields. see, it is practice in lacrosse that really tears up the pitch. Hell I would bring in Rugby if I thought people would come watch it. Friday night WUSA Saturday MLS MLL doubleheader Sunday Rugby If you own the satadium, you would welcome the teams and games with open arms.
I should revise my main question, I think I worded it poorly. I don't think MLS as a league should invest in MLL, I was just curious to see if MLL would be a welcome sport to play in any SSS's MLS investors might own someday. I just wonder if field damage of 7 regular season lacrosse matches would do more damage then the money would help. It would just be nice to someday have some niche sports complaining about the high rent those MLS Fat Cats charge to play in their stadiums. Personally, I love lacrosse. It's fast paced, high-scoring, and very physical. I'd say it's one of my favorite sports to watch next to soccer, and I only wish it was more popular in Texas. But I see it as far too regional. I'm not sure if the game would catch on outside of the northeast. As for the Washington team, I believe that's the Washington Power of the indoor National Lacrosse League. I think they're moving to Edmonton.
Voice, you hit upon something: cross-promotion. Brad Watters is the principle owner of the Ottawa Rengades of the Canadian Football League and the Ottawa Rebel of the National Lacrosse League. You will see ads all over Frank Clair Stadium for the Rebel and vice versa at Ottawa Civic Centre. Also, they offer the R & R Club. Season tickets for the Rebel and Renegades. Although the Rebel (and the Toronto Rock for that matter) have seen attendence decline significantly since their inaugural season. So much so that they had to move from the Corel Centre in suburban Kitana to the smaller OCC. So I'm not sure how successful the scheme is.
>> I live in NJ and even here hardly any high schools even have teams and there's hardly any youth leagues I live in NJ and even here hardly any high schools even have teams and there's hardly any youth leagues>> I live in NJ too but I was driving around one weekend and I saw many park with Lacroose leagues going on...in the north and also in central in the Princton area. Of course nobody ever sees pickup lacross games..do they? I wouldnt doubt if in the near future some sort of new Gen x type team spotrt shows up and blows every other sport away..not really rooting for that but look at how far the x games have come.
You can cross-promote all you want, but if you're cross-promoting a product that people don't want, it's still not going to work. And there's a lot more to it than just cross-promotion to sell tickets. I don't know how much 7 lacrosse games would chew up a ground, if you scheduled them right. As long as you got lucky with weather, but I'd hate to have both events the same weekend and have it rain and get torn up and then the soccer people would go ballistic.
I understand this to be about if a soccer team owning a stadium should/would have reason to be involved with MLL, and like you said 7 games are not too bad, but the soccer people would complain about the field... well that is why soccer would have to be the early game, or lacrosse would only have home games when soccer is playing away. as a team owned stadium, or at least controlled Soccer controlls the dates, and lacrosse gets the chewed up field.
the columbus crew just recently signed an agreement with the columbus blue jackets of the NHL to cross-promote each others game and events... of course the bluejackets are on a sell-out streak since they started play in the NHL 2 years ago so i dont think they needed the promotion but it will be nice to see the organizations work together in the columbus area.
I live in the heartland of lacrosse. It makes the scholastic and NCAA lacrosse make the local news highlights regularly. Since the NCAA created a championship in the 1970s, and a "Final Four" type tournament in 1983, lacrosse has failed to grow much beyond its original powerbase - upstate New York, Long Island, and Baltimore-Chesapeke area. Title IX has killed it's growth among NCAA programs. Women's lacrosse has grown because of Title IX, but it's not close to being the same sport. Syracuse University has perhaps the most storied legacy in lacrosse. Ever since the "Final Four" type tournament has been created, SU has been to every Final Four (20 years now) and won 8 titles. SU draws 12,000 people to games but ticket prices are negligible. Many scholastic players go to games, as well as long time friends and family of the players or coaches. I doubt if SU even breaks even revenue-wise.
It's a fair question, and I can't speak for anyone else, but I guess the point I was trying to make is that MLL is a dicey proposition to even exist when (if?) these stadiums are built. If the league is around, I don't see any reason why it would be a bad idea to take their money. Clearly, the grass would get chewed up, but money's money. Plus, the extra income would facilitate better groundskeeping.
Syracuse lacrosse in fact produced the legendary running back Jim Brown, who was discovered played goalie from Syracuse against Cornell. The rest is history. I want to give lacrosse the benefit of the doubt as a Gen Z sport in solidarity with its fans from my experience with soccer bashers. But it will take 40 years for it to have a chance of happening... sure, my little cousins in Connecticut play lacrosse. But at this point that's just extraordinarily unrepresentative of the rest of America. 40 years ago, I think soccer was probably in a position a lot like lacrosse... 30 years ago, it had its first national league. This is the type of time-scale we're talking about for lacrosse to do anything... - Kevin
I just went to a game last week. Don't know the rules and have never played. But it's not a bad sport and I enjoyed the game. I think it will stay small but can probably continue to exist. I don't think it can really help the MLS other than as paying tenants in some locals and maybe helping Rochester get a stadium built, but it's better for the MLL to stay in small places where they can charge less and attract people who enjoy sport but are tired of the $$$. The game was $15, parking $3 and beer was $3. A revs game is $23, $15 and $6 and that's a bargain compared to the big 4.