Chicago Fire @ NE Revolution MLS round 22 [R]

Discussion in 'Chicago Fire' started by FireAddict, Aug 18, 2006.

  1. Es Brennt

    Es Brennt Member+

    Feb 25, 2003
    Shermer, Illinois
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    You wouldn't like Quiggly when he's angry....


    [​IMG]
     
  2. I have to say that moving Jaqua to right mid and playing Mapp as an attacking mid has made all the difference in the world. Why Sara didn't do this earlier is beyond me. The last two games, the Fire have been much more active and aggressive. I still don't like Dave's tendency to want to sit on a lead, though. His subs were defensive and he hunkered down and was lucky to hold on. Then, again, we have played a lot of games in a short time and have another Wed. Sat combo coming up. Congrats on a win. I'm getting my Fire fever back.
     
  3. bing1985

    bing1985 Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Near West ChiSuburbs
    Ugliest Fire performance ever?

    Forget the win, we were embarrasingly bad today. 60 minutes of bunkering and hoofing the ball from the back. Yes, it's 3 points. But we owe the entire soccer-loving world an apology for that steamer.

    I wonder if DS plans to bunker another 90 minutes from the opening whistle on Wednesday.

    Here's my player ratings for today:
    8 - Zach Thornton (GK)
    6.5 - C.J. Brown
    5 - Chad Barrett 70
    4 - Nate Jaqua
    5 - Logan Pause
    6 - Chris Armas
    5.5 - Tony Sanneh (7 in central defense, 4 as mid)
    6 - Justin Mapp
    5 - Ivan Guerrero 63
    6 - Andy Herron 56
    6 - Dasan Robinson

    subs
    5 - Calen Carr 56
    6 - Jim Curtin 70 (limited minutes)
    5 - Gonzalo Segares
     
  4. stickfigure

    stickfigure New Member

    Sep 18, 2005
    Chicago
    Herron scored a beautiful goal - that should bump him up to a seven. He's been one of the few bright spots this season up front for me. I think he's earned a starting roll. The question IMO is, who plays next to him - Barrett, Rolfe, or Jaqua?

    Please don't say Carr - he's not quite ready yet. I wonder if people really like his play, or the headdband fro thing he's got going on. ;)
     
  5. Hattrix

    Hattrix Member

    Sep 1, 2002
    Chicago
    These were three of the ugliest points I've ever seen the Fire win, and the fact that they were against the Revs makes them that much better. The first of Twellman's two disallowed goals was pretty close, and easily could have been called on-side. Ralston put one of the bar, and Twellman blew that free header as well. Carr was a huge liability when it came to trying to hold posession, and this one came down to New England losing much more than the Fire winning.

    We were lucky. And that's a new thing for this team. Against the Revs back on June 11 we were unlucky, and against Dallas, both times, we were unlucky. It's nice to see some luck go our way. This Chicago-New England series has been odd this year: four games with only one point for a home team.

    When Barrett motioned for the sub, I thought we might bring Plotkin in, pushing Pause to right mid, and shifting Jaqua up top with Carr. But at that same moment, Sanneh took a knock, so Dave had to shift him out of the backline and shore it up with Curtin. We opted to go for the win via bunkerball rather than holding possession in midfield, and, oddly, it worked. Thing is, Herron left early. Will Rolfe be back for Wednesday? Might we see Rolfe and Barrett up top, with Nate out right?

    My hope, though, is that Dave saw how lucky we were and doesn't take this success as evidence that bunkerball works against the Revs. I think Sanneh will be done for a while now, and Jimmy will be back in the middle on Wednesday. Meanwhile, Dempsey's suspension is in the league, so I expect Nichol to start him in the USOC game.
     
  6. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare Member+

    Oct 2, 2000
    Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    all of dave's subs were crap.

    56 Carr for Herron
    Was Herron hurt? Barret was invisible after his yellow, Herron had a goal and a post, and looked the only guy likely to score again for us. The team wasn't great at that point, but we're winning, and kinda holding our own. In addition to bringing Carr on for the worng guy, he also switches up the formation - Nate's looked good for 1.5 games at right mid, the team's scored 4-0 in that span, so, yeah, let's push him back up top and put the rookie in the position with more defensive responsibilities. Sheer genius.

    63 Segares for Guerrero
    I'm still not sure what this was about - I assumed, as did the announcers, that we were going to a 4-4-2, but I never saw any evidence that Segares had any idea where he was playing. And seven minutes after changing your midfield. Let's say that was Gonzalo's fault, the sub still makes little sense. On a team with zero two-way players of any consistency, Guerrero has been our only reasonable facsimile thereof. Segares, meanwhile, has shown a recent penchant for rashly stupid challenges at bad places on the field. About a minute after he came on, he gave away a kick just outside the 18. He's going through a serious slump right now, and needs some remedial training. It's an ostensibly defensive substitution made in abject denial of the actuality of how players play and are playing that actually made our team MORE vulnerable. Sheer Genius.

    70 Curtin for Barret.

    The retreat to the 4-4-2 wasn't working. Dave's answer: the 4-5-1. Because, when inviting the opponent to attack more hasn't resulted in them crawling away in tears, the obvious response should be to invite them to attack even more. PLUS, Sanneh was getting treated for cramps and limping around like... like... well, like Sanneh always does after 70 minutes on the pitch. He's not a ninety minute player anymore. He was tired. He was hurting. So, yeah, push him forward into a midfield position that requires more running while at the same time withdrawing a striker, you know, just to make sure that Sanneh REALLY has to play a two-way role. Sheer genius.

    It was only New England's sheer ineptitude that gifted us these three points.

    I was all kinds of ready to praise dave for sticking (as far as he could) with the lineup that beat KC, but then I watched the match.

    We had one - ONE - shot after Herron's goal. One SHOT - not shot-on-goal, one SHOT. That shot came from Herron.

    Dave's reaction to Herron's goal was - sit on it for 30 minutes, take off the only scoring threat, sit back for seven more minutes, get pissed that the team isn't bunkering enough, go to a 4-4-2 by brining on a risk-taking defender, bunker for 7 more minutes, switch to a 4-5-1 by pressing a tired and hurtin old guy into a more taxing role, EXTRA-SPECIAL-SUPER-DUPER-BUNKER for 20 minutes (presumably while writing your post-game interview comments about not getting any breaks and how the ref's screwed you again), celebrate hanging on to a one goal lead for 65 minutes by resolutely refusing to play anything resembling soccer.

    Dave is teaching me what Nick Hornby was talking about in describing the sheer and total lack of ENJOYMENT involved in the actual match-time of supporting your side no matter what.

    This team isn't any fun to watch anymore. They're awful, ugly, and always an average opponent away from getting their asses handed to them.

    At this point the only reason I'm still watching is becuase I have to.

    And it's all Dave's fault.

    all of it.
     
  7. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare Member+

    Oct 2, 2000
    Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    and Herron hit a post, and he got half our shots despite playing only 56 minutes, and he had our ONLY shot after the 24th minute. I don't think Herron's a golden god or anything, and frankly, I'd dump him tomorrow in favout of playing a U25 lineup the rest of this season, but given the lineup we started, and how it was playing, Herron was very effective.

    I'd like to see more of the 3-5-2 we saw start the last two games, and have Carr back up Barret and Jaqua. When healthy, start Rolfe/Barret.

    Although, I have to say, Barrett's "I AM WAYNE ROONEY!!!" act has already worn so thin for me I'd trade him for Jamar Beasley at this point.
     
  8. The Magpie

    The Magpie Member

    Nov 19, 1998
    Cambridge, MA
    Speaking as a Revolution supporter, even with Dempsey in the line-up, the team's had about as much character and soul as Jessica Simpson this season.

    The Magpie
     
  9. Fossolari

    Fossolari New Member

    Mar 19, 2005
    GRR
    This was a scary game for a Fire fan in New England. All three times NE didn't score the entire stadium (minus the, what, six Fire fans) stood up, waving their arms in rapturous happiness only to be pissed off by the ref each time. They got sooooooo mad. Well, the guys behind me, anyway. They also seemed to hate Chad Barrett.
    Calen Carr, while speedy and undoubtably irritating to the other team, was outplayed by Khano Smith. The card was the only time he stopped him (that I can recall) after being (in a loud drunken guy voice) schooooooooled at least three times.
    I am so glad the Fire won. Good to see our Jimmy. He'll be helpful.
    Yahoo FIRE!!!!!
    :)
     
  10. Bigdudeduke

    Bigdudeduke New Member

    Apr 26, 2000
    Chicago Suburbs
    As usual KOZY hits the nail on the head. The only thing that prevented Dave from snagging a tie out of the jaws of victory was the fact that the Rev's were the more inept team. Nice try Dave, maybe next time.
     
  11. Wolves1935

    Wolves1935 New Member

    Jan 28, 2002
    Prospect Heights
    Seeing as how Dave can't seem to ever make the right choice, I fully expect to see Thiago back in at AM when healthy - eventhough w/ Mapp at AM and Jaqua out wide we see a more attacking lineup.

    This team REALLY should spend the week just working on passing, from 5-15 yard passes....I don't know how many times yesterday they past the ball with the power of a 95 yr old man (yes, some of those passes WERE made by Tony Sanneh).

    And Zach needs to stop the quick drop-punt to our lone forward when the opposing team has more than 1 defender back. Better yet, we should just stop it all together, we don't have the ability/desire to win 2nd balls, he's better off throwing it to a defender/midfielder.
     
  12. bing1985

    bing1985 Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Near West ChiSuburbs
    I am absolutely convinced that DS made the decision at around 60 minutes that the objective was NOT to win, but to give up less than 2 goals. He made the decision early that we'd be happy with ONE point from this match.

    Hattrix - I'm afraid you may be wrong about Sanneh going to the bench in favor of Jimmy - wishful thinking, probably. Check out Dave's glowing praise of Big Cash - Der Hoofer-meister.

    But it was Tony Sanneh who drew most of the plaudits after an inspirational performance in central defense. After struggling to find his feet in his first few appearances after returning from injury, Sanneh marshaled the defense against New England, showing the qualities that have earned him international recognition in the past.

    "He's battled a lot of injuries," Sarachan said. "We're seeing the reason why we brought him here in the first place."​


    ugly - just ugly
     
  13. dlm_Fire

    dlm_Fire Member

    Aug 16, 2002
    Chicago

    Are you joking? Tell me you're joking with the "Mr right-into-the-keepers-stomach" being a bright spot?

    If you look at the season as a whole, the most consistent way to kill our offense has been to let Andy break away and shoot. This goal brings him UP to someting like 2 for 52 on breakaways JUST THIS YEAR.

    Andy owes us a lot more production this season before I could ever stomach hearing someone call him a bright spot without falling on my ass laughing.
     
  14. Stogey23

    Stogey23 Member+

    Dec 12, 1998
    San Diego, CA
    And Stevie Nicol's got her chest!
     
  15. stickfigure

    stickfigure New Member

    Sep 18, 2005
    Chicago
    10 starts this year, 5 goals in 804 minutes played. Rolfe has more games and more minutes but has done less and I don't hear many knocks on him. I see his faults and am not claiming him the best forward in the league, but Herron's having a better season than most seem willing to give him credit for. In addition, he's one of the few guys out there trying to get the crowd pumped - playing with some emotion - waving his arms to get the fans to stand up. I appreciate that when the rest of the team just appears to be going through the motions - especially in a brand new stadium. When I go to the games, it is something that stands out - shall we call it a BRIGHT SPOT - to see a player who truly appears to be into it. And compared with the play of the other forwards, Herron deserves the job. No joke - really - honestly - no joke.
     
  16. Chris M.

    Chris M. Member+

    Jan 18, 2002
    Chicago

    To the tune of "Let it Snow":

    Oh, the shadow outside is frightnin'
    Stops the sun from shinin' light in,
    You can see them wherever he rests
    Nichol's chest, Nichol's chest, Nichol's chest.
     
  17. jjayg

    jjayg New Member

    May 9, 2002
    Rolling Ghettos, IL
    I'm very happy with a win and a Foxboro sweep for the year. Nice goal by Herron. He needs to be more consistant but he also deserves some credit.
    I agree wholeheatedly with the criticism of Dave and his bunkering. We were plain and simple lucky to get 3 points out of this game. I'll take them happily but we are still not playing that well over 90 minutes. A shame because we have some great flashes in almost every game. Too bad the coach can't get these great moments to stetch into consistent great games.
    Yet in the mess that is the MLS we are now in what? second place.
    Crazy.
     
  18. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Congrats guys. I see some angst here even after the win, and in some ways it's understandable.

    But if nothing else, you're now in second, you've won the season series against (a good tiebreaker to have), and ...

    God... my team just sucks. :(

    Oh well, hopefully you guys will get a chance to see a good match on Wednesday.
     
  19. chifirefan

    chifirefan Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    Chicago
    that was the best part of the match.
     
  20. bing1985

    bing1985 Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Near West ChiSuburbs
    Most positive thing from yesterday: Only once did Greg Lalas describe a player as "getting joy" down the wing. It's usually a pretty reliable drinking game to count on a dozen such references. OMG he's awful.
     
  21. Pyro

    Pyro Member

    Apr 18, 2000
    Fulton River District
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the Dave subs were OK for reasons about to be disclosed. Jimmy did help lock down a few things and I definately agree with the comments Dave made about Sanneh. I have been blown away with the poise he has brought to the back line. I appreciate all the Jimmy and CJ have brought to the back line, but throw those two in with Zach and you have a powder keg of panic which has been evident many times this season. With Sanneh and Armas healthy the middle of the D is becoming less of a worry. For this reason, the Dave bunkering is more likely to work going forward.

    I could see Carr for Herron as his posession skills are superior to Herron's and that is what was called for at that point.

    Mapp as AM is a revelation.

    Up top answer: Herron and Rolfe up top. If no Rolfe, then stick with Chad. Shift Thiago to super-sub role with Plotkin first of the bench.

    Heart-attacks with 3 points are acceptable. Looking forward to Wed.
     
  22. konakee

    konakee New Member

    Aug 1, 2006
    Although, I have to say, Barrett's "I AM WAYNE ROONEY!!!" act has already worn so thin for me I'd trade him for Jamar Beasley at this point.[/QUOTE]

    It isn't a "Wayne Rooney" act. You need to remember that both his parents are retired Marines. He was given the nickname of "Rooney" by the fans, but what you see is all "Barrett". He's young, has always had a quick temper but will, in time, learn to control it - even when gouged in the eye! I am optimistic that he will become a player that most teams would love to have but other teams dispise. I wouldn't trade him yet!
     
  23. lethargytartare

    lethargytartare Member+

    Oct 2, 2000
    Magrathea, Horsehead Nebula
    Club:
    Yeovil Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Scotland
    It isn't a "Wayne Rooney" act. You need to remember that both his parents are retired Marines. He was given the nickname of "Rooney" by the fans, but what you see is all "Barrett". He's young, has always had a quick temper but will, in time, learn to control it - even when gouged in the eye! I am optimistic that he will become a player that most teams would love to have but other teams dispise. I wouldn't trade him yet![/QUOTE]

    I don't actually think Barrett intentionally mimics Rooney, but he does bring the same sort of undifferentiated rage from minute one that Rooney does, and he's similarly undisciplined. My main beef, however, is that he's often chippy and cheap, taking whacks at guys off the ball and such when he get's frustrated, which often happens within the first five minutes of a match. I don't, and never have, liked that kind of player, and I couldn't care less if he grows into a 20 goal scorer in this league if he also keeps playing like that.
     
  24. bing1985

    bing1985 Member

    Jun 14, 2004
    Near West ChiSuburbs
    Chippy and cheap isn't good, but a player with balls enough to fight out there is very refreshing. Hopefully, he can grow out of the chippy stuff and keep the passion - the arrogant swagger, the sense of manifest destiny, the obligation to greatness. We've had hothead players before, and loved them. Think Kovalenko, think Stoichkov... Barrett hasn't broken anyone's leg yet, but he's young.

    "Undifferentiated rage" - LOL - I like that. It's a good way to put it. I want him to dial it back and pick his momments better so that he can stay a force for 90 minutes.

    Herron may be a better starting option today. but Chad is a forceful player and can tilt the field in our favor coming off of the bench. If we play our cards right, and are a bit lucky, Chad "Diesel" Barrett will be with us, pissing off opponents and scoring goals, for a long, long time.
     
  25. Khan

    Khan Member+

    Mar 16, 2000
    On the road
    OK, let me get this out of the way:

    As a fan of this club since it's inception, I'm overjoyed at the win, and the three points earned. I'm happy about the recent run of form. I'm happy to see the team's fortunes seemingly reverse somewhat. I'm happy to see the club climb up the table.


    Having said that, I have this haunting fear that we're all buying some SERIOUS fool's gold.

    1. Almost every team in the EAST [save for DCU] has one reason or another to implode:
    RBNY with the coaching changes;
    KC with the sale of the franchise, the coaching changes, the missed players due to national team duty, and potential sale of players abroad;
    Cowlumbus with their torrent of injuries and lack of form;
    Revs with Twellman's [fair, IMO] demand for a raise [He makes LESS than "Grandpa" Eddie Freakin' Pope in this league???] and Dempsey's [fair, IMO] demand to be transferred.

    2. The recent wins were v. teams that are seriously TRYING to quit and/or SERIOUSLY out of form, and/or missing KEY components due to injury and/or suspension, and/or v. glorified reserve teams. Full-strength and fully-inspired opposition likely yields more difficult matches.

    3. The team hasn't always looked good during this latest run of good fortune. The win v. KC was with a man up, and while the opponent had been away from home for a protracted period of time. The win @ The Razor seemingly was against the run of play. If Zach doesn't "stand on his head," Sarachan's blundering, I mean bunkering likely yields the team one, or [more likely] ZERO points.


    Worst of all, this latest run of form may actually preserve Sarachan's [and Guppy's] jobs artificially. This, despite them having done little to nothing to fortify and improve the team. I don't believe that any of the players are any better NOW than they were a few weeks ago. I don't believe that Sir Dave has gained any more soccer acumen NOW, as opposed to a few weeks ago. I don't believe that Guppy has "seen the light" in terms of properly leading a sporting enterprise.

    I still believe that the team is in serious need of some signings, particularly in the creativity department. I still believe that the team needs a new direction in terms of the on-field management. I still believe that the front office needs someone with a clearer vision for this club.

    I remain skeptical about the team's true level of quality, despite the recent lucky bounces we've witnessed. I think the team is closer to the one that got beaten by Chicas than the one that barely outlasted the Revs. But we shall see.
     

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