Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] I think this quote is what's wrong with this thread in a nutshell. There seems to be a communication gap, but I guess under the circumstances it's understandable. I know English is a second language to many on here... The guy you're replying to said, or at least implied without much ambiguity, that no one in the US believes the FIFA rankings were valid. And yet your response indicates that you believe he was saying that the US does in fact merit the #5 ranking. In other words, you guys agree on this. Off topic for a second, I'm wondering why so many seem to think that we don't form our own opinions but rather get them from ESPN announcers. I guess they should change their name to Al-ESPN, the Entertainment & Sports Propaganda Network, eh? In fact, I think I saw the Al-ESPN helicopter dropping propaganda leaflets over my business park and nearby schools earlier today...
Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] Are you drunk, or just a little slow in the head? I just told you I've watched every match except for one in the whole world cup. I'm a student. I've sat here, played poker online, and watched soccer for the last ten days. You act as if it's some crime for our announcers to say that maybe, possibly, perhaps, in one fleeting instant of wonder, we could manage to beat Italy. Noone has said we're going to beat Italy, but if we hope to advance we have to, so there you go. The mentions of the Italian scandal are just the announcers trying to thinking positively, "Hey maybe the scandal will distract the Italians and we'll somehow advance." But you're right of course, we should just pretend we're France and wave the white flag before the fight begins. I mean this is mighty Italy, how dare we even consider the remote possibility that we could go into the game with a chance to win. Heresy!!! Maybe your English isn't so good, so I'll be gentle here. I specifically pointed out in my previous post that we, as Americans, all thought the FIFA rankings were a bunch of doodoo before the Cup even started. We all knew we were ranked way too high. Yet even after that, you once again ask me to justify that same #5 ranking that I just told you was unjustifiable. You keep talking about how cocky we are, but when we tried to explain how wrong those rankings are you just stick your fingers in your ears and go "lalalalalala, I can't hear you, cocky American!!!" It's like us having a conversation like this: Me: "You there, I know you're ugly, with no money, but someone told me you would be capable of having sex with Angelina Jolie. Go do it." You: "Oh no sir, I am just a humble soccer fan, the beautiful Miss Jolie would never have anything to do with me." Me: "You cocky sonuvabitch, how dare you say you could easily screw Angelina Jolie and then not do it! This other guy told me you could do it so go, do it now, prove it to me!!" In both situations you'd be blaming the person receiving completely unjustified praise instead of the idiots doing the praising. That makes you.... wait for it....dumb. As to the last paragraph if you don't believe blatant anti-American bias throughout the world, especially in regards to soccer, you're kidding yourself. Poland got beat down by Ecuador, who is nowhere near as good as the Czechs, and are they dealing with the kind of crap US fans are? How about the Ukraine? Both those countries have much longer and more storied soccer traditions than we do, yet people just love to gloat when it comes to the U.S.
Just to clarify and add a few things. Yes, it is reportedly true that Lippi and several Italian players could not identify many American players. I read aGazzetta dello Sport article reporting as such. However, I don't understand why anyone would take this as an intended insult on the American squad. It is not as if they said it in a manner tending to indicate that they did not care who played for the US. Rather, they were just eluding to the fact that they are not familiar with the American players because they are not players they've ever faced before. In the UEFA Champions League, where the calibre of play is as high as there is, you will always see managers of the major Italian clubs admitting they are not familiar with players of foreign sides, even very high-quality sides. This is not meant to be any affront at the players in question, though I could see how the players may want to use that as ammunition. Further, with respect to the USA game, the Italian players have been very diplomatic and have not said anything to aggravate the American squad. If anything, the only one who has engaged in such was Eddie Johnson with his brilliant, "Italy aren't what they used to be," quote.
just want to make a couple quick points: 1. Good luck to both teams, hope they bring a good game. 2. Any WC team can beat any other WC team in 1 game. Maybe over 10+ games of playing each other you will see who is better, but this is one game, and either team can take it. This is whole reason why we watch sports, because it is unpredictable. 3. No respectable US soccer fan will agree with the FIFA ranking of #5. That rank is nonsense, you know it, and so do we. 4. I suppose your country is better than our announcers, have no bias whatsoever, know all the names of 32 countries x 23 players each, and doesn't favor Italy. If you don't understand English, I am being very sarcastic. Do you really expect a country in which soccer is NOT even in the top 5 major sports to have good announcers? 5. With that said, I hope for the US team to bounce back after the embarrasing loss, and play with some emotion. I won't expect a win, but it would be very nice as a fan. I would rather see my team play hard and lose than to be lethargic and not lose.
Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] Genius! Julie foudy IS hot,...in that women's soccer star kinda way grrrrowl...
Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] I've agreed with most of what you've said so far; however, I must take issue with one point you keep repeating. You keep saying that the commentators are only indicating that the US have a slight, hopeful chance of beating Italy. However, this has not been the case. In fact, I have stopped following the games in English-speaking coverage (ESPN, ABC) for this very reason. The commentators are highly confident of the US's capability to win the Italy match, notwithstanding the crappy performance we saw against the Czechs and based on what, God only knows. Further, when they have decided to talk about Italy, they have only focused on the match-fixing scandal, which is completely irrelevant here, and slighting Italy's chances due to that. It is also very evident to any Italian fan that the American commentators are completely uninformed about the Italian game. Therefore, in sum, we have a bunch of ignorant American commentators slighting a very strong Italian team, with no sound basis in fact. As you might imagine, that is very annoying. You'll note that if you watch/read/follow any non-American medium, they are all basically indicating that the US has only a very small opportunity of taking anything from the following match; and based upon what we've seen, that is the only way an objective follower of the game could see it. The US has shown nothing to demonstate that they are likely to defeat Italy.
Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] hey! your leaflet is in color? mine is a Xerox. I guess they must have run out somewhere over Tijuana and were forced to scramble when they got to my neck of the woods... I must go now. Eric Wynalda is giving a sermon at the rec center... Man, did you see Julie Foudy today? I think I have time to squeeze one off before the sermon. Late!
Bruce Arena just revealed that he'll be switching the players' jersey numbers around, and only revealing the new player-number combinations two hours before kickoff, as required by FIFA. Apparently he got wind that the Italian scouts were referencing jersey numbers only when reporting back to the coach and players. Surely the US will win now!
Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] Well like I said I have watched every match. The closest thing to declaring victory I've heard from an announcer is one commenting that he thought we'd be better against Italy. I've heard them say we're capable of beating Italy, but that is true. I don't know where you get highly confident, as most of the announcers seem nervous about how badly the US played and for this match they are talking about how Italy is a world power, as opposed to against the Czechs where they never mentioned how good the Czechs were until they were up 2-0. They're doing a much better job of managing expectations for this game than they did before the first one. People seem to think they should say the US has no shot in this game, but that is just foolish. ESPN paid a lot of money for the rights to broadcast the world cup, and for them to get good ratings the casual American needs to think we may actually beat Italy. To expect them to say "Yeah, the US sucks, we're gonna get creamed, heck... I wouldn't even watch it" is pretty unrealistic. The reason they keep bringing up the scandal is that they're trying to sucker America into watching the game and that's one way to do it. If your average American thinks the Italians might be distracted, maybe they'll tune in because the US has a better shot. Plus if you live in America you should know by now how negative our media is, about absolutely everything. You've heard "If it bleeds, it leads" right? Well an Italian match fixing scandal is a whole lot sexier than "overmanned US squad to be sacrificed to Italy, Saturday on ABC HD!!" Edit: About the announcers I agree, they're terrible. It's kind of like Ultimate Fighting Championships. It was kind of an underground thing for a long time, then they got Joe Rogan(of Fear Factor fame) to do commentery, got a reality show on spike, and now it's probably the fifth or sixth most popular sport in America. Adding an announcer with some recognition who can make apt, funny comments really adds to the experience. ESPN really needs to get a quality lead soccer guy for the next World Cup, right now none of ours have any credibility. But what can they do? If they bring in a bunch of guys with foreign accents people will have a hard time understanding them, and the domestic announcers here are pretty putrid, as has been made clear by the 900 page thread on this board, even if some of those complaints could be made against every other network on the planet.
Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] Hilarious! He's right - these boards are fun sometimes to toot your own team's horn and talk smack with other fans. Nothing wrong with that, although sometimes the mods have to remind people which forums are most appropriate for which comments. But the truth is that most of us here are unaffected by what ESPN says, and actually get annoyed by the commentating. Many of us watch the Spanish coverage just to get away from the inane chatter on ESPN.
The fact is, Italy is in Germany to try to win the cup, or at least reach the final. If they were really worried about the US then something would be wrong... They will have to go up against teams like France, England, Argentina and Brazil... of course they can't affort to be scared of the Americans, or they should just not have come. The US national team deserves respect, but of course the Italians are confident they will win... shouldn't they? They are probably not going deep in detail about the specific characteristics of each american player, but you can be sure they will be discussing US team's tactics and offensive schemes, as well as individual deficiencies that some american players have, especially defenders, because those will be the keys for a succesful offensive tactic. If they know more players of Ghana is just because 4 of them play in Italy, many in europe and a couple are real stars (Essien, Kuffur)... Everybody knows Essien, not because he is from ghana, but because he plays for Chelsea... You are right, they for sure think they can win the game and take 3 points... shouldn't they? They are not qualified yet! If they lose to US they might very likely not qualify at all, not even second. Any team that thinks about going all the way to the final must feel confident they can win any game. Still, I don't think the italians will underestimate the US team. Many times a big italian team went out of the champion's league after losing a game against some supposed-to-be-weak club: they know the power of pride, and how positive energy and character can change a game supposed to be easy on the paper. Again everything can happen in football: penalty kicks, red cards, hot weather, players in bad shape and luck/bad-luck... The Americans will play their cards and play to win. I agree with you, underestimation of the opponent can really screw you. usually in a world cup you never lose concentration just because of the media pressures, but still could happen. Of course the italians will play with a little bit of attention to the coming game against the CR, they might want to spare a player or two if not in perfect shape. I disagree on the talent gap, though... I think the gap is pretty wide. On this I really have to disagree. I partly condoned his words based on the fact that he might be a 20 years old guy who never went out of his home country and has very poor knowledge of the world. But he's 22, not 14. I still think the US federation should fine him badly, 'cause his declarations are plain unacceptable for a grown-up inividual. There are thousands of people being killed in wars in 3 continents... it's not something you can joke about. The world cup should be a party, a moment where people from around the world come together and have fun. The last thing you should compare a soccer game to is a war. I would have him watch a couple of videos about children being killed in Sudan, Iraq, Ethiopia, Ivory Coast, Haiti, families losing their homes, people being raped and being injured or losing limbs. Then go back on TV and apologize for being such a childish, unrefined, ignorant human being. Maybe also ask him to take a couple of history and international affairs high-school classes. Not required if you want to be a soccer player, absolutely required if you want to talk about war without looking like an idiot and being a shame for your country.
Re: Official Italy vs U.S.A. PRE Match Thread [R] I think it's more of a different style that US announcers have. At least that's how I hear it. I hear them saying things like "In order for the US to win, they have to attack the Italian defenders," and "If we can send some good crossed in to McBride, we can get some goals." That's just a typical overstated style US announcers have in all sports. (I'm certainly not defending them - most of them are asses - but just describing their style). Now if you've heard something where they unequivically predicted a US victory, let me know what they said.
They will get lectured about the schemes the US team usually uses, plus some informations about the best american players and (especially) the weaknesses of their defense. When Italy defeated Germany 4-1 some months ago, nobody in the german staff knew anything about Iaquinta, and they admitted it. it's not so easy to know everything about every player in the opponent roster. But they will get lectured about the fact that the US makes of the collective their main weapon, the fact they like to play in speed and attack on the sides, that Donovan is considered the most creative player and should be the one to be taken care of to block the american offensive schemes. To understand a team's tactics is much more important than to know their names. If a team attacks on the side lanes, it will do it no matter who's playing in those positions. If a player in particularly important in a team's schemes, the trainer would say something like "look how their numer 7 is constantly running ahead an receiving the ball near the corner, that's a scheme you might expect them to use" or something like that... If a player is really critical for a team, the players will likely know him. Everybody knows Ronaldinho or Henry or Totti or, in the US case, Donovan. You'll likely to see Pirlo or Gattuso follow Donovan every time he crosses the midfield line. They might not know his name, but they know he is the US offensive playing architect. I am sure that Arena himself doens't know anything about Italy's Barone, a midfielder many even in Italy don't know much about... but for sure Arena has been studying Italy's schemes in the game against Ghana.
He chose the wrong word but the right sentiment. 'Battle' was fine to say, 'war' wasn't. It's obvious what he meant (the competitive nature of the WC, playing for your country against other countries), so I think a public apology should suffice for poor word placement. But goddamit, I am so happy that he feels that way. You want your players to go after every ball like it's life or death. Then you can reel them back in a little as needed, but only after you've made the statement to the other team that they're all gonna be bruised and battered the next day.
There's the strongest example I've heard. Harkes just predicted a 1-1 draw, and that he thought the US had a "good chance to win" but due to their poor showing in game one he'd predict a draw. Some people are probably saying that's him poormouthing the Italians, or whatever, but that's just him being a guy who works at ESPN. If he'd said the US was going to get killed he'd probably be called into his boss' office after the match. I don't think U.S. announcers giving the U.S. fanbase some hope that the U.S. team can win is such a bad thing, especially if they want people to watch the game.
I think most people would agree. A couple years ago Kellen Winslow Jr. made some similar comments about how he looked at his games at Miami as wars and that he was a "soldier". It's not looked upon lightly around here... I do think you underestimate the immaturity of guys in their early and mid 20's. I used to be one, and I thought I knew everything when in reality I knew nothing. I had a good vocabulary but used poor judgement. It can be a deadly combination... You can see it on these boards all the time, the ones who have been around and know a thing or two about how to communicate politely and intelligently, and the ones who scream obscenities and are in a hurry to insult others. I can tell in five seconds which ones are in their 20's and which ones aren't. In this life, after a while you just learn to think before speaking. Guys like Eddie Johnson and Kellen Winslow, they just don't know any better yet. I'm sure the necessary people will have words with Eddie Johnson, but he doesn't deserve to be villified. It doesn't appear that that's happening, fortunately. Although it's still early...
I understand what you're saying, and from a strategic perspective I'm quite sure the Italian coach is preparing his team with all due diligence. My point is that at least in America usually the week before a game the players on teams who respect one another will say something complimentary about each other as a sign of that respect. In America if you can't name someone on the other team it means you didn't care enough to find out anything about them, which is surely a sign of disrespect. I'm not saying we should expect a scouting report from Totti on the last guy on the U.S. bench, I'm just saying that an expectation of them at least knowing a few names and saying something to show your respect isn't too much to ask. I mean if you ask the Americans I'm sure they'll mention Totti, or Luca Toni, or any number of Italians. It's not about how strategically prepared the Italians are, it's about having enough respect for your opponent to take a little time and familiarize yourself with them. But maybe that's a purely American view on things, I don't know.
I can't believe anyone is defending the U.S. announcers. I'm speaking in particular of the former U.S. players who are announcing (Lalas, Balboa, Wynalda). Their predictions and expectations of the U.S. team have been absurd and I can't believe anyone is defending these comments....In a pre-World cup interview on the ESPN website with Alexi Lalas I couldn't believe what I was hearing. He said this U.S. team was going to shock everyone. He was completely confident they would get out of the group predicting a tie with Czech Rep, a win against Italy (b/c the disarray the scandals have caused the team), and a win against Ghana. Then, in another segment entitled "Can Anyone Beat Brazil?" His answer in so many words was, "Yes, the U.S. can." I almost fell out of my chair. What does he see that I don't? I believe the U.S. is a good team, I feel a top 15 in the world, but the top teams in the world, come on!!! I also heard Marcelo Balboa say twice that U.S. would beat Italy b/c the U.S. has too much speed...Who does he think the Italians play against during the year? This isn't Guatamala Marcelo!! These are players playing against the best players of the world all year round. If you want other quotes of crazy predictions listen to Julie Foudy's expectations of the U.S. national time. Anyone who says the announcers aren't overconfident just simply aren't listening. I started watching the games in Spanish and I don't even speak Spanish!!!
What exactly is the big deal? These people played for the U.S. They've seen the improvements the team had made. Of course they are going to believe the team can win, because if we truely are one of the top 15 teams in the world then on any given day we can win. What do you expect? There are people who are basically members of the team, they're never going to say the U.S. has no shot. All these people complaining seem to think that we should have come into this world cup with the expectation of getting our butts kicked and going home. Even if that ends up happening, you will never, ever see the United States going into any competetion expecting to be annihilated. It doesn't matter what sport it is, we're going to believe our team has a chance until they are knocked out. I have a hard time believing every other country doesn't feel the same way. There is a difference between saying "We will r0x0rz your b0x0rz, we r00l" and saying "We are capable of beating anyone." One is egotistical cockiness, the other is just being confident in your own abilities. Nothing wrong with that.
Their goal calls are much more exciting than ESPN's! I TiVo the Univision broadcasts just for that! Incidentally, how do you know the Univision announcers aren't blatantly homing for Mexico during their broadcasts?
Well said. Now I am in Europe, but I was watching some of USA games with My american friends. When US anouncers' predictions and expectations were absurdly high like 'USA is the legit contender (by Wynalda)', I told my friends that they would have a hard time qualifying for second round. Of course, all of my friends laughed at me, since they are PROFESSIONAL and I am just a football fan. I think the announcers have made the expectation of americans WAY too high. That results in pressuring the players right now. USA is a good team, especailly their goalkeeper pool is amazingly deep. However, that's it. Players in other positions are just decent (in world level). I am pretty sure all the comentators know that, again, they are professionals. but WHY? Why wouldn't they be telling the truth to the fans? Is it because America always have won what they wanted? that is something that I don't understand. Well, BTW it will be a hard match for USA again. 2-0 Italy, if both teams play like they did in first game.
I think Brazil are very beatable. They're always touted as being so creative and flowing, but I think they're a bit boring. They lull you to sleep, and then out of nowhere someone you least expect cracks one from from 20 meters, and you're down 1-0. Then they get boring again. I only like them when they're down. Then they're extremely exciting to watch. Personally (opening myself up for attack here), I think Japan or Australia (and maybe even both) will beat them. But this is a US thread, so I'll repeat from an earlier post that ANY team who's unafraid to launch repeated 25-meter shots can beat any other team. That new adidas ball is like a cork ready to shoot out of a champagne bottle. If the US continues to shoot like Reyna did, then turn around and defend solidly, they can steal one from Italy.
I am pretty sure you haven't been around football too long. I've never heard Brazil being boring. I guess they have 'some' boring games, but mainly, they play most attractive football in the world, I have to say. On the other hand, i agree with you that they are beatable. There are some teams that can play well against brazil's style.
It's become a cliche. When you watch them it doesn't really live up to the hype. They are so good at possession, and they somehow make you feel that it's okay to allow them to creep that possession closer and closer to your 18-yard box, and then out of nowhere, you're struggling for an equalizer. You obviously disagree, and that's fine. I won't tell you that you haven't been around football very long just cuz I disagree, though. p.s. we really shouldn't clog this board up with this conversation...