Vatican may relax condom rules

Discussion in 'Spirituality & Religion' started by Riz, Apr 24, 2006.

  1. Riz

    Riz Member+

    Nov 18, 2004
    R-ville, Murrlin
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4938076.stm

    Thank you, Cardinal Martini. :D
     
  2. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina

    Perhaps it is indeed the best way to tackle Aids, but if we all practiced abstinence then our species would become extinct within one generation.
     
  3. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    You'll still go to hell, you'll just get to hang around on earth a little while longer than you would have.
     
  4. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Abstinence or being faithful...:rolleyes:

    It's a good thing the Church explicitely state that while they would prefer people to follow their ideal of abstinence, it is a greater evil not to use condoms and possibly cause the spreading of the disease while derogating the 'rule' anyway.

    Not everybody has to to agree with the Catholic Church as far as things and values which are deemed important in life are concerned but most will agree that Life itself is the most important.
     
  5. Nanbawan

    Nanbawan Member

    Jun 11, 2004
    Haute Bretagne
    Club:
    Stade Rennais FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Everything is negotiable...;)
     
  6. MiamiAce

    MiamiAce New Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Miami, USA
    You'd be correct.

    Likewise, if we all used contraceptives, or had abortions if impregnated, we'd get the same result.

    That's why the Church promotes sex and speaks beautifully of it within the sacrament of matrimony. (Just read John Paul II's Theology of the Body or Love and Responsibility- you'll be very surprised to say the least) In fact, in the last half century, the Catholic Church has endlessly encouraged Western people to get married and have kids, instead of finding every reason not to do either or - all of which can be correlated to the current aging population, and de-population of the West.
     
  7. Riz

    Riz Member+

    Nov 18, 2004
    R-ville, Murrlin
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    The problem with this approach is that it does little to address the reality of life for millions of people worldwide. I can't say it any better than Bishop Dowling:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/04/25/AR2006042502187.html

     
  8. MiamiAce

    MiamiAce New Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Miami, USA

    "Vatican may relax condom rules". Hilarious.

    The BBC's long suspicion of the Catholic Church is equal to the suspicious nature between the U.S and Iran. I though this was already common knowledge among everyone, apparently not.

    In any case, this is much ado about nothing, really. The issue at hand is a tiny one. The gathering conference will declare if a married couple, in which one spouse is HIV positive and the other spouse is not, can use condoms to engage in sexual intercourse without passing the disease to the other spouse.

    It seems to make sense, maybe not. Anyways, I'm personally not even sure why an infected person would even want to run the risk with his/her spouse in the case of the contraceptive failing? I guess pleasure is more important than spouse's life.
     
  9. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    Actually, with contraceptives, there is a very small percentage of humans that would survive. Breakage, leaks and so on. Lucky bastards, they'd get the world all to themselves.
     
  10. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    You're contradicting your reference to Theology of the Body, where sex bewteen husband and wife is treated much much much more than as mere pleasure.
     
  11. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Jansenism trumps all.
     
  12. Barbara

    Barbara BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 29, 2000
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not nothing. It's the very issue that sealed my defection from the church.
     
  13. Riz

    Riz Member+

    Nov 18, 2004
    R-ville, Murrlin
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It's also not nothing as it is a matter of life and death.
     
  14. MiamiAce

    MiamiAce New Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Miami, USA
    Ah yes.

    Out of the 30 South African bishops, only one is in favor of condom use. Of course, that's the one you agree with. And to my surpise, this bishop supports his reasoning with the understanding that it will sustain prostitutes in their business. Goodness gracious. Not to be rude, but save me the time of reading articles if I'm reading minority ideas.
     
  15. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Where in the article does it say this? Seriously: where do you think it says this?
     
  16. Riz

    Riz Member+

    Nov 18, 2004
    R-ville, Murrlin
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yes, please point to the portion of the article as it directly relates to allowing condoms to be used to "sustain prostitutes in their business".

    I'll wait.
     
  17. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Get comfortable, Riz. It's going to take him awhile.
     
  18. argentine soccer fan

    Staff Member

    Jan 18, 2001
    San Francisco Bay Area
    Club:
    CA Boca Juniors
    Nat'l Team:
    Argentina
    I guess using condoms will indeed sustain prostitutes in their business. It will result in less turnover and more repeat business, as both the service provider and the customer will be more likely to survive the ordeal.
     
  19. MiamiAce

    MiamiAce New Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Miami, USA
    You're right about the essence of conjugal love (sex), yet somehow wrong about a contradiction on my part.

    I mentioned a man infected with HIV or AIDS who uses a condom in order to perform sex with his wife. TOTB explains that in no way, never, can a contraceptive or condom be a part of this conjugal union in all its purity, glory, and mystery. It doesn't give one's entire flesh; it's not open to life; it doesn't allow the full unity of body, soul and spirit with the other's; it "holds back"; Any substitute of the all-unreserved sexual act between your everlasting spouse, is essentially that... an unequal subsititute. A temporal physical pleasure. I don't see any confusion.
     
  20. MiamiAce

    MiamiAce New Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Miami, USA
    Riz and Dr Wankler:

    How would you interpret that?


     
  21. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Dealing practically with the harsh, brutal realities of their lives as caused by the exploitative economic system they're living under. Certainly not advocating prostitution as a GOOD THING, which is what you imply ...

    But if you'd rather they die than to undertake such desperate measures to survive... whatever. That's your problem.

    And as far as the second "point": he looks pretty courageous here, what with his trying to help people survive, while others are more worried about their future careers climbing up the heirarchy than actually alleviating suffering.
     
  22. MiamiAce

    MiamiAce New Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Miami, USA
    Excuse me? I think you need to re-read my position.

    Oh I see. So if they're not allowed to sell their bodies for money, they will eventually die.There's absolutely no other alternative for them. Guess every unemployed single mother throughout the world in poor economies should heed your warning.

    Amazing. I never knew you had this miraculous gift to "know" all those African bishops "don't really care deep down inside about their people". You know, there's a reason why millions of Africans are flocking to join the Catholic Church. Oh yea, and most of them are absoutely fine with the teaching on contraceptives. Imagine that. But don't worry, I don't expect anyone to understand the reason if such a person's consciousness is limited to modern Western cultural values.

    Anyways, I can see this is going nowhere fast. I wasn't here to argue or encourage your cynicism. It's all cool.

    My regards.
     
  23. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I'm Catholic, not a cynic. But it's not about me, it's about the Bishop you were mocking, and said Bishop is no more cynical than Jesus was when He told the people who were about to stone the woman taken in adultery that whoever was without sin should cast the first stone. He then told the woman to go and sin no more (knowing full well how hard that would be for her or for any of us). If you lack the imagination to have compassion toward people who have been driven to desperate acts, well, good luck getting beyond that.
     
  24. Riz

    Riz Member+

    Nov 18, 2004
    R-ville, Murrlin
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    And I guess every woman who has no other possible means of living before her should be condemned to a death sentence rather than have the ability to protect herself.

    That's exactly what Jesus would have done, I'm sure.

    The lesson learned in the fight to prevent HIV/AIDS worldwide is that there is no "one solution" to fit all circumstances. The other important lesson is, as much as certain behaviors should be changed and economic development and empowerment should occur, there are serious and real IMMEDIATE prevention needs, and condoms are just one way in which to help prevent the further spread of HIV.

    There is the view from atop the holier than thou mountain, and there is the view on the ground, among the people most affected.

    I suggest you take a hike down the mountain now and again.
     
  25. DJPoopypants

    DJPoopypants New Member

    I don't get it.

    The catholic church is here to save our souls, not our bodies.

    temporal suffering - early death - these things aren't bad, because they bring you closer to god and heaven, right? If you get AIDS - it just means you get the opportunity to meet Jesus faster. It's the soul that matters, not the body? Isn't that what the church has taught us for thousands of years?

    What, is the pope all worried that when he goes to heaven, he'll have to hang with people who look like this?

    http://www.kcom.edu/faculty/chamberlain/Website/lectures/lecture/image/kaposi.gif

    What a body-conscious fashionista the pope is. Next thing you know he'll go about wearing Prada shoes.
     

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