Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match & PBP Thread [R]

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

Cool. Next time you talk to him, ask him to start scoring please. Or at least setting up other people. Or at least get some shots on goal (so far 1 in 185 minutes of playing time, contrasted with 4 by Eskandarian in 36 fewer mintues).

Not to mention, out of attacking players who have played more than 15 minutes, he's the only one without a point. Moreno, Gomez, Eskandarian, Adu, Olsen, Gros (who's actually playing outside back) have all gotten on the scoresheet.

He's a good player, he needs to start playing like it. And yes, I'm interested too why he's guarenteed to start.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

Congratulations. You have just seen the latest in mathematical theoretical practice. Proof by Assertion.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

Ok, my take on this: it seems he is playing well for the team even if he is not scoring at the moment. Looks like soehn and nowak somehow appreciate that. i saw him (surely you did it too, thamlin) collaborating in defense last game. i counted 3 dangerous balls played to the box by houston and cleared by lucio.
and about scoring: check his stats. he was never a goal-scorer, not in mexico not anywhere. 13 goals in 2 years in mexico (that means 4 half year championships).
And thamlin about setting up other people... im not sure what games you have been watching but he set up LOTS OF PEOPLE in the past 3 matches. Adu against the scum, jaime against houston, esky against chivas.

my guess is that PN and tommy soehn must see in him (in day-to-day training and in games) something fans don't see. And perhaps, only perhaps, for that reason they choose to start him. that's why i suggested to direct all your questions about the matter to them.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

Great! Filomeno for center back when Bozzer starts knocking in own goals again!!

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

First of all, I don't approach such a question lightly. It requires much thought. But the first thing I'd ask is if our obsessions are in DC or will they be played out of town. Afterall, we are differently obsessed. (Different diagnoses under the DSM-III codes.)

For travelling obsessions we have the likes of me or Knave or Atouk especially though of course the likes of close by travelling to Charleston or the swamp can put new folks into the lineup like GM etc.

For home obsessions there's you of course. (Boy is there you.) R&B and various supporters groups members who I see every home game just begging to be admited to St E's. But one should not forget the truly wackos in the mezannine like Cweed or Diceson or Mike Martin. Weirdos, all with a slightly different perspective. Good on free kicks and cheap shots, I suspect.
The Bawlmer contingent bring their own, uh, take on "reality" too that's very hard to describe simply because a Baltimore area resident rooting for a DC-based team is just plain wrong in normal circumstances. I sure wouldn't want to meet the likes of JH6, Lowe, and/or Pints in a dark alley in Hampden.

I don't know. We could go four deep at every position, especially on the wing(nut). I'll have to give it much thought while I'm sticking sharp metal objects into my patients. (Probably some folks out there think that last statement was a joke. Nope.)

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

6-2

or

2004 Eastern Conference Final

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

Actually he played almost one full half year season in mexico as d-mid, right in the center of the park. Not kidding...

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

I am with Todd. If he wants to play d-mid then put him back there. If he wants to play forward then contribute to our scoring.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

I don't think he's guaranteed to start, exactly. But, he was signed as a starting striker, in terms of his experience and salary and SI spot. Nowak and co are going to give him at least 4 - 5 starts to prove himself, in those circumstances. You have to think they want to give him time to adjust to the different style, pace of MLS, get match fit and get used to his colleagues. What would you suggest as an alternative ? Change the striking lineup every time a forward goes two games without a goal or assist ? I'd like to see him start a few more games before giving up on him.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

I'm going to take Calvin Klein (who I think is a distant cousin of Chris Klein) starting in net.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

This is quite a sensible response (on Big Soccer!), and your point about Lucio's defense is well taken - I, too, remember those clearances from the box against Houston. But to me, the "problem" with Lucio is that he is too similar to Jaime in his play. Both receive the ball well under pressure and look to dish it to someone else in a position to attack and shoot. All well and good, but I would like to have at least one forward on the pitch at all times who is selfish enough in the box to think of shooting first. That is the hallmark of a striker, and Esky, and perhaps Jamil, are our only true strikers. For Lucio and Jaime, I think, the best is the enemy of the good. That is, they (especially Jaime) wait for the PERFECT opportunity for a shot, while someone like Esky will try to make something out of a decent, but less than perfect, chance. Since you rarely get a perfect opportunity, Jaime doesn't shoot all that often. Good things happen when you take a shot, even from a so-so position. Sometimes they go in, sometimes they are blocked out for a corner, and sometimes a rebound goes to a teammate. And another thing: when you have a reputation as a true striker, the defense has to pay you a lot of attention, and that could free up someone else.

The gist of all the above is that I would prefer to see Jaime or Lucio, teamed with Esky or Jamil, for a majority of the match.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

The 2004 ECF has to be tops. Two teams just hammered on each other for 120 minutes at a very high level. I still remember Gomez' header off Stewart's cross and just shaking my head. Also, that game featured EZ performing heroic duty as the central defender while Nelsen was suspended for accumulated yellow cards. Best game ever and it put DCU back into the finals for the first time in 4 years.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

I agree with this. I also take it one step further - another percieved problem that we on these boards keep trying to solve for Nowak by proxy is how to husband Jaime's strength so we can keep him going all year and not hit the wall when the games get critical. Why not solve both problems at once by designating Lucio as Jaime's understudy/substitute?

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

A few things on Filomeno:

1. I'm not saying he can't produce or that he won't. I'm saying that he hasn't.

2. It's great that he's supporting his teammates and winning headers in his defensive third, because that's his job. It might not be his primary mission on the field, but it's certainly something he's supposed to do when the situation warrants.

3. It's not that I'm for benching a forward if they don't score every game or every other. Lucio has exactly one shot on goal this season. That's pretty lousy for a starting striker.

4. If you're not going to look at scoring production for your forwards, I don't know how you can justify someone playing or not playing. While there are many intangibles that don't show up on the score sheet which are very important for how someone is playing, forwards are supposed to be scoring or setting up goals.

Right now the basic arguments I'm seeing for Filomeno starting are that he's been brough in on a "starters salary" and that he is doing non-stat sheet things well. If any pro sports team started their team in order of salary, things would be a lot different. Personally I see that argument as ridiculous. SI spots aren't what they used to be in this league with American talent increasing, more youth internationals making an impact, and the increase of SI spots. No longer are those guys automatically some of the top players on their team like in 1996.

Also, I don't see the things stated that Lucio is doing well like winning headers in the defensive end as something that a guy like Alecko Eskandarian doesn't do. It's not like Alecko just hangs out up front and scores a goal every other game and does nothing else.

Then there's the whole style of play issue. Over the years when they're both fit, Moreno and Eskandarian have been a very lethal combination up front. Last year we heard that Filomeno looked disjointed with his teammates because he wasn't used to playing with them. Well, he's had a winter and a spring training/preseason now under his belt plus a bunch of MLS starts, so what's the excuse going to change to?

Now there are a few issues with all this. Eskandarian has been dinged up a couple of times this season already and it's tough to say where he is in terms of health. We know that he had to sit out a day of practice this week, so maybe he doesn't get the start in the Swamp. Also, not very many of us are at practice jack, you're right it's tough for us to see how everyone is doing every day. Lucio might be lighting up the intra-squad scrimmage for 5 goals a match while Eskandarian is fanning on everything, who knows.

My point right now is that out of anyone that's played an attacking role for United this year, Filomeno has been by far the least effective. He's playing ahead of a couple of guys who have had profound impacts on games, and I think his starting role needs to be scrutinized at this point.

Please don't interpret this as me saying that Filomeno sucks or anything like that. I'm not saying he can't be a quality player in this league, I'm just saying he hasn't been through the first month.

(Note: If you have Lucio on your fantasy soccer teams you'll probably want to start him, because I'm sure he'll make an ass out of me this weekend and score three goals.)

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

This may be a good game to rest Moreno. Gomez ought to play, since he didn't play the first game and we had a slow start offensively. But this is one of those games that Moreno can take off to keep him from burning out over the course of the year.
We are very strong defensively up the middle of the field, and that is where they do most of their attacking I think, since Guevara, Buddle, Youri all seem to float centrally. Unless Mike Magee catches fire I don't know who will burn us down the flank, so having Gomez in the center and Adu flying down one of the sides may spread the creativity and along with our two up top we can create real havoc all game. We bring in Walker (and maybe Moreno just to let him break a sweat and keep his form) in the second half and just attack in waves.
I wonder if we'll see Moose in the 2nd half. If we are leading, I would think that would be a good time to get him some minutes.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

Thamlin, I beg to differ on the 4th point. You can score the production of your forwards in other ways too, not only by scoring goals. There are tons of forwards who are not "goal-scorers". And i keep on reminding you that he set up his teammates in every one of the three games.
Also beg to differ on point 3. I distinctly remember him making 3 shots on goal ONLY against the Scum. So how come you say he has only one?

Anyway if PN decides to bench him so be it, perhaps coming in later in the game, against tired and open defenses can make him find the net easier

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

True dat..
We have other scorers, though. Gros got one against Meola last year, and Alecko has done well on him also. Our attack is harder to plan for and stop if we can use multiple weapons in any given time, and our team speed is a weapon we have not really learned how to use yet. Adu/Esky/Walker/Gros/Lucio, with Gomez feeding the frenzy. I remember the game when DC set the MLS record for shots in a game, with 28 on Meola in '97 I think. We can beat that this weekend (and win better than 2-0 this time), and our schedule will get harder as we get FC Dallas next and we'll need Moreno healthy and in form.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

I assume this is a response to my posting, so I'll respond.

It would indeed be ridiculous to start players just based on their salary, but that really wasn't my point. My point was that when a team makes a reasonable sized investment in a player as DC has done with Filomeno, they inevitably are going to give him some time to prove himself. It is just common sense - you want to give him every chance to give you a return on the investment and to prove that you made the right choice by signing him. Nowak presumably had a reason to sign him - he is not just going to pull the plug on him two games into the season. This happens all the time in pro soccer - I am thinking of guys like Diego Forlan who went a whole season at Man Utd without scoring at all.

Broadly speaking I would agree with you that he hasn't been as effective as one might wish. Where I disagree with you is that his starting role needs to be reviewed now, as opposed to in a month's time. Right now, Esky is working well as a sub, we've got 7 points out of 9 (and would have 9 out of 9 but for the stupid free kick decision against RBNY), and we've scored two goals per game. Since starting Filomeno isnt' hindering our ability to win games I would give him at least a couple more starts before making any decisions.

In fairness, it may well be that as someone said, Filomeno is a kind of Wegerle type player that is best used as a sub or stand in for Moreno. I agree that a better match up is probably Moreno-Esky or Filomeno-Esky. But I would rather give Filomeno a bit more time to show what he can do.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

True dat!!

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

I believe I am the person you are referring to, and what I said, or meant to say, was that Filomeno strikes me as a very similar player to Moreno, and that IMHO a more lethal combination would be One of Moreno/Filomeno and ONE of Esky/Walker. I'm not really down on Filomeno, and he may soon show me that he is more of a striker (a la Esky) than a facilitator (a la Moreno). He is clearly quite skilled. It's just that starting two "holding" type forwards strikes me as a less aggressive lineup than one featuring one "Moreno type" and one "Esky type."

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

http://dcunited.mlsnet.com/MLS/news...ent_id=56873&vkey=news_dcu&fext=.jsp&team=dcu

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

I agree that Moreno and Filomeno are both 'holding' type forwards, but their style is night and day. Filomeno has a lot more fight in his game, and is willing to go into the trenches. Moreno is more a facilitator type as you describe.

Maybe a better description of Filomeno's game is that it's more like Thiago Martins.

 

Re: Official DC United @ New York Red Bulls PRE Match Thread

man i'm heartbroken that mark "benidect arnold" lisi won't be showing off his soft skils and lack of heart

seems as though mo is staying on as manager, but now they've got the manager of red bull marketing running the show. i don't know whether to laugh or just chuckle