Ironic that you should say that those who choose not to return say because of a fear of violence. At work a week ago I was talking with someone about soccer and DC United, etc. and she asked how the violence was at the World Cup game I attended back in '94 between Ireland and Mexico. I began the whole conversation discussing the passion displayed by soccer fans and she quickly brought up the violence issue. My response was that I saw no violence and never feared that there would be any. But, after hearing about this incident and other around the league I can understand her line of questioning.
Are they at fault b/c these morons launched an attack - no. Are they at fault b/c they did little to break it up quickly - yep.
Read revelations post, I think it applies here too. There's a cross current of blame, enough to go around for everyone. If these guys have been doing this for years, they should at least be watched a little closer. If security WAS beefed up as you say, then it came at DC United's request. It obviously wasn't enough. The lack of MPD presence is kind of troubling too. Who requests or pays for that? Having dealt with the MPD in the past I can assure you that they would've ended this quickly. They tend to bust heads first and ask questions later.
You are right - my bad on that. Back to my other post - as long as the DCSEC is not the ones putting the thought that soccer fans are hooligans into the heads of the CSC they are innocent in this event in my mind.
Maybe I'm putting myself out there too much with this statement, but if you think the proper response to getting spit at or on is a punch to the face, then you need as much human decency retraining as the person who spit at you. In almost every case I hear about these kinds of incidents there's a over-action or reaction from some idiot who can't drink in moderation. If people can't learn how to have a good time and display passion without being physically aggressive or drinking themselves into trouble, then they need to stay home and destroy their living rooms. That goes for any fan, of any team. I kinda wish I went to see other pro sports cause maybe then I could gauge how normal or abnormal this is for sporting events in America, but as it is I have no idea. Worst case scenario is when you are physical danger of injury and you can't remove yourself from the situation you take a step to protect yourself. Any other time, you walk away and attempt to defuse the situation. Somehow I doubt enough of the people in question took that approach. Which is a shame. Hopefully the teams and the league will take whatever reasonable steps are required to resolve the issue. I would also prefer that a thread be kept open, but I understand that having them open keeps the Mods working overtime, so whatever. I'm not volunteering to do the job, so do what you must.
Especially if you started it with actions that you know might provoke someone to spit on you. A victim's mentality often comes from planning to be a victim.
DCSEC hire them, or used to. If I come to your workplace once a week for 25+ times a year and your employees consistently mess up in situations they are hired to contain and are supposedly trained to help quell, the blame ALSO falls on your shoulders. Dig? Perhaps one of the reasons DCU now hires them directly is to better control the lack of quality with these under-trained folks.
Precisely. American security personnel do not have the experience, technology, and training that England, Holland, Germany, and Belgium have. Those are the nations pooling their expertise into policing the World Cup, using facial recognition software, and keeping "known troublemakers" from traveling. France had major problems in 1998 and keeps having them: note Paris Saint Germain games of recent vintage. Turkey and Italy can't get their acts together, either. The way I see it, security guards have always been low-paid, low-educated, out-of-shape hacks -- whilst Homeland Security guards are high-paid, low-educated, out-of-shape hacks. With guns.
So there was a history of violence from these people,in this stadium, back to 1998, and still inadequate security for the game?? Sounds like a negligent security lawsuit waiting to happen, assuming such a cause of action is recognized in the jurisdiction.
You will find this kind of bad behavior in all sports at all levels. I've seen brawls at youth league games in various sports. There's always some idiot who has too much to drink & too much to say. I've also seen it at parties & in clubs, even driving on highways. For the most part, people can walk away from or ignore the problem, or try to bring it to the attention of police or security, but not always. On Sunday, 700-800 NY fans came to DC to have a good time. 23,000 DC fans were also there to have a good time. Maybe 20-30 DC fans were there to talk crap & start problems. Apparently one NY fan ran into La Norte - he was immediately grabbed & removed. That was good. The DC trouble makers were allowed to remain & repeat their bad behavior. That was bad. Outside, there were both police & security, some of whom stood there & some of whom tried to move the trouble makers away. As far as I could see,the 'skinheads' at the exit had plenty to say, but did nothing physical. The group across the street in parking lot #3, egged on by the guy in the wifebeater who had led them out of the stadium before the final whistle, were clearly spoiling for a fight. The still photos show this. They were not going to their cars. Hundreds passed by them before the physical incident. I did not see how it started, as I had already walked by. I would not put it past this crew to start their own incident. I hope that there is video. I wish that the security or police who were present had made a few arrests. Instead, they were content to break up the crowd & everyone went their own way. The DC crew basically fled. As you can see from certain prior posts, they are proud of this event. In their own minds, this was a good thing. Since they can't act like normal people, they need to be banned. Otherwise, someone will be seriously injured & that will be the main news story, not the game.
Not necessarily. As a st-holder, I thought last year's shirt was better than usual and a great reward for planholders. Given this, I recall, with disappointment, that late in the season I passed a table in the concourse where the same shirt was apparently being sold. If it was in fact being sold, there you go.
Bear in mind that it took a long, long time for the authorities in England to come up with a way to deal with this problem. And it took several tragedies, including Heysel and Hillsborough, to really push the clubs into taking the problem seriously enough to spend money to address it. If you go to any English game in the upper leagues you'll see a lot of police, with horses, dogs and cameras. The clubs pay for that. They also paid for all-seater stadiums which were supposed to discourage violent behavior. Here, the problem isn't nearly so bad, so it isn't surprising that the clubs, police and private security don't have much of a handle on it. As I said before I think the DC United front office is really in the best position to deal with this issue. IMHO they need to do two things. Firstly, ban the group responsible, for life. Yeah, I know there are practical issues with this but I"m sure it can be made very hard for these guys to get into the stadium and there are surely court injunctions that can be got so that if they do get in and are spotted they can be jailed. Secondly, have someone in the DC front office who is responsible for working with visiting fans so that if a group is coming from New York, Boston, Chicago or wherever that the appropriate actions are taken. That means - know the numbers coming in advance, put them in the most appropriate part of the stadium for the size of the group, make sure they have enough security around them, pay for some MPD to escort them to and from their transport. I don't see why it should be so hard to do. At worst its the cost of hiring some extra security and paying MPD for some cops. Set that against the very negative publicity that could seriously affect attendance if one of these incidents makes it into the local press.
Couldn't it be as simple as pressing charges on them for this incident, or not even bothering with that and saying they are no longer welcome at the stadium. The next time they show up MPD arrests them for trespassing.
How will they know? It took extensive camera use and even some biometric software to prevent English/European Hoolies from entering stadiums. MLS/DCU are not going to invest in that type of monitoring technology. Given some of the follies that Homeland Security Grant money has funded, why doesn't DCU apply for funds? Don't misunderstand, I'd rather not have that type of violence at the games. Stopping isolated incidents is going to be difficult.
I was responding to the allegation that the DC FO was to blame for this incident b/c they didn't bar these individuals prior to this event. Now - if the FO does nothing and it happens again the blame does fall on their shoulders.
True. Someone in Kansas City got homeland security money for a putt-putt golf course, and yet there's lax security A MILE FROM THE FARKING U.S. CAPITOL BUILDING.
I didn't the edit the original post. I added the second sentence, since your reply took my statement completely out of context. Obviously, the first sentence speaks in terms of "if you assume the truth of what Chico says in his first post, then doesn't it also reflect poorly on the FO." And IMO, the answer would be yes. If you hadn't misinterpreted, there'd have been no need to edit.