A The Guardian Article: http://football.guardian.co.uk/continentalfootball/story/0,,1724902,00.html The club needs a complete overhaul and Pérez has left a ticking timebomb. By departing with a dig at the players, he has left Ronaldo in the eye of the storm - yet another easy scapegoat - easy prey for new president Fernando Martín and the Brazilian's real nemesis: Raúl. Smelling blood, the captain insisted that "Florentino should name names," but there was no need, for Martín immediately pulled out an iron fist, giving an aggressive speech in which he railed against a team of millionaires, demanded 24-hour dedication and physical perfection, and announced plans for a secret police force to spy on the players' off-field behaviour. With 82% of fans wanting him out, the target was obvious; Martín's speech had Ronaldo's name written all over it. Which is more than can be said for Saturday's teamsheet. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Who is the owner of the complete truth? I don't know. But I do know that he'll be better off elsewhere.
Very good post! Of course Pelé is right when he sees what is obvious to everyone else. But he's wrong, oh boy, so wrong, when he thinks that he has the right to say it in public. That's the whole point for me. It was not Pelé talking. It was only Edson Arantes do Nascimento.
If you think Ronaldo has been giving even 80% at Madrid, you're wrong. It's been clear for some time that his heart and head are not in it. He admitted as much himself, when he said he wanted to leave Real because the fans don't love him enough. If he won't defend himself from charges of not caring, why should you defend him? I agree that Brazil fans should care more about Brazil than any given foreign club; but you missed my point. I didn't mean that Brazil fans should care about Madrid; they needn't, but they should care when one of their most visible and iconic players mails in performance after performance. I read an interesting comment from nicephoras the other day, who said perhaps Adriano's been "saving himself for the World Cup," as a theory to explain his lack of effort and production for Inter. Perhaps Brazil fans would like it if Adriano "saves himself" for the World Cup and then scores 12 goals, but that would be an absolute disgrace, it would devalue the achievement, as other players are killing themselves for their club's success while he's granting himself a 6 month vacation. You don't like the example of Kaka? Let me give you others: Shevchenko, Pele, Maradona, Zidane, Baggio. These are all players who were the subject of great expectations, as they well should have been because they had more talent than their peers. Unfortunately I do not recall when any of those players shrugged off the weight of expectation and decided to blame others for their own lack of effort. On the contrary, those players seemed to want the burden to be placed on their shoulders. Isn't that what it means to be great? Again, I think you're missing me. I'm not suggesting Ronaldo is faking injuries or that he should be held to his 1997 standard or that his goal- scoring numbers are bad. That's nowhere in my post. It's the lack of effort that is simply wrong and indefensible, and when I hear these glib excuses about the media and these cheerful asides that he'll no doubt "give 100% at the World Cup, at least" it really gives me pause. You mean to say it's all right to give zero effort at club level so long as you give at international level? I would think a player should not even be allowed to play at international level if he can't be bothered to try at club level . . . That's just wrong to me.
tp! now that you brought it to light and i went back and read the article again i found that what pele said and the contex in which he said it wasnt malicious at all. pele was asked a question about ronaldo's situation and he gave the reason why ronaldo is going thru his current emotional state which is not far from the truth . pele was being honest about what he thought of ronaldo's situation. pele didnt put ronaldo down because of his personal problems infact he was empathizing with ronaldo saying that because of outside problems his game has suffered and he gave an example that if somebody has had 2 bad marriages it will definitely affect his perfomance.he also said that ronaldo would have been a greater player if he did not allow outside things to interfere with his game. and that it wont be wise for a player of ronaldo's age to change teams at this time.now anybody who has watched ronaldo played lately must know he is not same. the lack of interest during a game is evident. the old ronaldo with a clear mind hustles and it is not as if we all dont know about ronaldos failed marriages. pele was just trying to give his opinions about things he wasnt bashing him! and ronaldo says pele is bitter? hahahahahah this one is very funny! there has never been a greater player than player and never will be and there has never been a more successful soccer player in his post playing days like pele. peles problem is that he is too dam honest and people call that stupid . he says what is in his mind! give him a break the man is God. yeah, sup with Ronaldo telling on zidane like that. i bet zidane wont be too happy! guys lately ronaldo has being takiing things the wrong way. the past few months he had fights with madrid fans, guti, raul and now pele. i know he is our brother but just like pele did, a true brother should tell it like it izz and dam the consequences. if he is messing up let him know so he can change for the better!if we are not honest he will keep falling down untill it will be to late. so i belive thanks to pele for being the only one with the guts to tell ronnie the truth, something he dont wanna hear which are symthoms of a man who is caught in a comfort zone like ronnie is nowadays.Ronaldo should ask himself this question and pounder on the answers,! why will pele be jealous of him. why will pele who helped him a lot when he was at the lowest point of his career with the injuries and counceled him back to greatness be bad to him all of a sudden. the only reason is that pele cares. he saw a problem in ronaldo and spoke out just like when he knew ronaldo needed encouragement durinhg his down days but ronaldo seems to forget that huh even after the wc02 finals same ronaldo said that after his family and his doctors the only other person he wanna thank for his recovery was pele. guys think b4 jumping to conclusion, nuff said!
Excellent points though TB - especially with regards to the Raul comments. I think it's so easy to forget that last year and for a time before that, the problem at Madrid was that Raul was having an absolutely horrendous time, in a slump that lasted pretty much the entire season. Meanwhile, Madrid had just signed Michael Owen who was by all accounts performing quite well for them and IMO better than Raul. In the meantime, Ronaldo was still scoring goals for them when he wasn't injured. Before this, he was scoring goals for them and they last won a title when he joined them after the Cup. I remember... Madrid was/is such a political club. Very easy to play the blame game. One of the other problems with Madrid has long been the loss of Claude Makelele to Chelsea. They no longer had that World Class enforcer in midfield. I don't think what Pele said was terribly derogatory, but with Ronaldo now I don't think it helped him out. I can imagine Ronaldo taking it a bit offensive. If someone comments on your '2 failed marriages', it's adding to the burden or maybe any inadequacies that the individual's facing. I agree that the personal life of Ronaldo plays a bit part in his performance and maybe he took it too personal. But then again... when someone's speaking about your slump and talks about your personal life, it's hard to blame him. He might see it as a slam against his character even if that wasn't what Pele meant because of the heightened defensive frame of mind he's in.
all these problems at Madrid started when they stupidly decided to sack Del Bosque who just won title and the season before won the Champions League, the problem with Real is the front office and is now affecting the players, how would you feel when there is a new coach every six months and most of them arent very good Edit:how is Pele talking about failed marriages, hasnt he been married 4 times already Edit2:in 17 La liga games, he has scored 10 goals, which is a decent record.like around the same time last season, he is in a poor form right now, but that usually lasts a couple of games
That's hilarious. Things must have changed in Brazil. For years all you heard was the fans complaining that they play so well for their club team and then play crap for Brazil. Perhaps this was just during the 198-2002 period when the team played very poorly until Japan. Ronaldo admits to not being the 'skinny' type of player anymore. I understand if he's come to terms with not being the type of player he used to be (and Ronalidnho Gaucho is today) where his game is based on explosive acceleration and ball skills, but I would think even his 'play to feet and space' target forward role would benefit from losing a few kilos. He can say whatever he wants about being at this weight since 2002; the simple fact is that he isn't in 100% fitness. I do have to question his desire because of that. His comments about his weight sounds more like denial than actual defense that he is playing at his ideal body weight. Oh, and welcome back to me.
Once again, thanks everyone for the translations on the interviews. I will add, Ronaldo will be back and he will score the most goals in this WC.
you are missing the point again! pele is not using ronaldos 2 failed marriages as a put down.he mentioned it as a response to a question to analyse ronaldo's recent bad form and one of the reasons he gave was his failed marriages is taking a toll on him!pele never put himself above not having a bad marriage or if anybody who has had a bad marriage is a bad person no! pele is using the bad marriage as one of the problems affecting ronaldo and ronaldo is letting it affect him.in short if we really listen to it, pele is really saying that ronaldo should be mentally tuff and not to let these problems affect his professional life! its like ALEX1 said because ronaldo is in such a poor mental state being criticized by everyone, took it the wrong way!it was more of an advice if you ask me.Ronaldo is a fragile character, very sensitive and these things affect him!thats all pele was saying!
No... things are very much the same. Ronaldinho Gaucho still gets quite a bit of heat for his performances with the selecao. But I think Sempre's an Italian fan. And yeah, welcome back from the 4 year hiatus!
I meant to respond sooner! I don’t think I have to really defend Ronaldo. It's pretty much known that he was injured this season. I think that injuries can play a part in the psychological approach of a player and the general performance that a player puts out. In addition to this, I think that the mental aspect of the game with a player that is injured or has been injured frequently, etc. can have an adverse effect on that player's performance and confidence. Ronaldo hasn't been having that great a year, even though he did start the year out pretty well. There are a few reasons for this and when you're looking at Madrid and some of the other players on their team, like Beckham, Raul, Julio Baptista, Zidane and Robinho, it isn't as though they're setting the league on fire either. I don't agree that he's 'mailing in his performances', I'll just leave it at that. I disagree here. I do not believe the players have forgotten who pay their wages or what they stand to gain by finishing the season well. Just doesn’t really add up to me … Adriano’s Inter’s leading scorer in the Champions League and they’re still playing in the Champions League. He may not be having as explosive a year as he did last year but he’s still having a solid year. I didn't think the example was accurate - it's irrelevant to Ronaldo. And I have to ask - do you really rate Zidane, Baggio and Shevchenko on the level of Ronaldo in terms of accomplishments and expectation? And do you believe that Pele and Maradona were free from troubles in their careers? Zidane, Baggio and Shevchenko are/were terrific players that have amazing accomplishments in their careers. But none of them have two World Cup medals, have been on a team that made 3 World Cup final matches – or in the case of one, even been in a World Cup! Pele is one of the best, as is Maradona, without question. They did play in different era's in the game but unlike Ronaldo, Pele never played outside of Brasil and all that this entails in the modern game of today, let alone the differences between the players personalities. I think these examples emphasis my point and show the level that Ronaldo is actually on and the difference between him. I'm not saying he is better or worse than Pele or Maradona. I'm saying his career path is unique... and it was something to me that Maradona was one to call him and encourage him. I think the take I just quoted here is a bit romantic! I also think one of the issues is that people's definitions - yours and mine for example - of a 'great player' may be different. In reality the definition of 'greatness' can be completely and utterly subjective, who’s right or wrong? Ronaldo may have said some of the wrong things, I don't doubt that, and he may have made some poor choices in his career... but to me there's no taking away what he's done - 8 goals and a World Cup medal in 2002... World Cup final in 1998, player of the year awards, hundreds of goals... amazing power and speed when he was younger... World Cup medal in 1994 (although he didn't play)... he's one of the greats to me. In regards to his problems he's hardly unlike any of the greats that have played any sport. Michael Jordan and gambling, springs to mind - or even in the NBA, where he was known to cruise through parts of the season just to wait for the playoffs. Diego Maradona and drugs. In hockey, Wayne Gretzky and this gambling controversy even though he may not have even done anything... my mentor told me something a long time ago - it was so basic... 'everyone has problems'. I find it to ring true on so many occasions. Like Riotom9 said, that really is different from 02’ where players were crucified by fans when they didn’t believe they were playing their hardest for the national team! But to be honest I didn’t suggest any of that at all. I said that his injuries may play a part in his performances. I honestly think that in many ways what Ronaldo is going through is mental. He's in a strange place, but I think he'll get through it, he's a pretty tough guy even though he may seem sensitive and run his mouth. There's no doubt in my mind that he is sick of the media and he probably has been for a while. I certainly don't agree with him targeting the fans or blaming them for not encouraging him - he's a professional, he should and does know how to encourage himself and what he needs to do to improve. In my opinion, Ronaldo is still one of the best strikers in the world. He says he wants to give 100% in the World Cup, that's great. I think that's great because I do think he's giving it his all in Madrid - it does him absolutely no good to slack off and he wont' be at his best for Brasil if he isn't at his best for Madrid. It’s amazing though… Raul was having IMO a horrible stretch last season… Michael Owen was playing better than him yet he still maintained his position. But now it’s Ronaldo that’s being crucified in the press and you can see the cut-throat politics with the club. In regards to the Selecao, Ronaldo had a reality check over the summer when they won games and tournaments without him. Funny… he wanted time off because he was worn out after the year in Madrid and wanted to be fresh for the new season! In terms of his play at Madrid, like when he played this weekend, it’s not as though he wanted to miss the penalty – he wants to do well and to score goals and to get back on top of his game. The confidence isn’t there. The jury’s still out on if he’ll turn it around and be disciplined enough to do what he needs to do to raise his level of play. But as a fan all you can do is hope for the best – and think that, well, if four and a half years ago nobody was sure if he’d be able to play the game at a high level again due to horrendous injuries and exhaustion, he’ll hopefully get through this!
Personally, I think that if they try to push him out of Madrid (depending on what other options are open to him), he should do as Romario did and return to Brasil. He has said many times before that he wanted to play for Flamengo, his "clube de coracao." He should.
alex you are comparing eras now! you said you are not comparing pele to ronaldo but you are man! well pele only played in brasil but guess what?in pele's days the best ballers were balling in brasil. europe was nothing then.how about the hundreds of times pele and santos went to europe and kick the azzes of them great euoropean teams like benfica,real madrid, inter milan and so on! that part of your argument that pele only played in brasil is very naive on your part! as a player pele was more complete than anybody else! the speed and power game ronaldo had pele had it in abundace before ronaldo.yeah pele and maradona were not free from trouble but only pele handled pressure better than both diego and ronaldo! mind you pele was king by the age of 17 and was a major part of brasil winning their 1st world cup after an amazing performance by the 17 year old!ronaldo could not handle that pressure at 21 in 98!maradona couldnt handle is and turned to drugs!what made pele greater than the rest despite his umbelievable skills was that he was grounded. he didnt feel he was above it all. he was dealing with reality and only if a person knows that the reality is that he is no better than anyone else and that he just kicks a ball for a living, the they can handle anything! i hate to say it but ronaldo needs to get a grip with reality and that the baggages that come with fame and fortune is the criticism and attention he gets and he has to deal with it instead of crying like a child! i am sorry but i have to say this! i love ronaldo but geez he should not be defended blindly[if you let you kids get away with little things without you correcting him or her, you are doing him more ham than good]!he should get with the program for crying out loud! look at gaucho. he just love life and the game! such a happy person. never complains. just go there and do his job. sure he gets criticized but he never bite back and cry that everybody is against me or jealous of him! i think ronaldo at this point has a false sense of worth.he should work out get in playing shape and help his country win the world cup! by the way like you were comparing eras. in pele's days there were no card system. red or yellow card and the defenders can maul a player and get away with it. you see skills are skills and whoever has great skills will adapt and be great in any era hows that!! please never compare pele and ronaldo in terms of skills! we will ever see anything like pele again! never!! watch pele eterno and get back to me!
Pele may have meant well but he may have timed it wrong. I won't debate Pele vs. Edson here. Pele's got the right to say whatever he wants, as does any former soccer player. He's not the only ex-star who's made his share of comments that pissed people off. Ronaldo's under pressure. And yes, he may not be the Ronaldo of 1997. But it is utterly feasible to expect him to shine in Germany. And this Real Madrid issue stems from Raul, eh? Well, let's see how well this team does after Ronaldo leaves. I always liked Raul, but if this is indeed true, this is nothing but petty jealousy. Raul at his prime couldn't touch Ronaldo at less than 100%.
That is why I said that by them playing in different eras, and Pele not playing in Europe (especially looking at the climate of football today), it's a bit tough to judge - and like i said its a bit interesting that Maradona would give him a call and support. My point was, however, that most of the great players all had unique and different career paths. I never said that Pele wasn't one of the best ever players. But I think I'm certainly entitled to make any comparison I wish in terms of their skills and analyse the players too. I've seen the movie and followed Pele's career as well, but like I said, the players are unique and their career paths are also unique. I also think that in many ways, it's easy to say that 'a great player would dominate in any era because they're simply great' is a bit naive because there's really no way to prove it and you have to establish a whole new set of classification criteria if you even want to go there. For example, training methods and best practices... maybe Pele would be just that good in todays game or maybe even better as the game has gotten more sophisticated. Or... maybe not. Meanwhile if you move a player accustomed to the game of today to back then, perhaps they would dominate even more than they would today. Be realistic - do you think that playing in the late fifties and sixties, 70's is different than playing in 1998 or 1994 or 2002? Again, none of this is to demean Pele's amazing accomplishments. It's to emphasis the difference in the football world and climate, and both players had very different things to deal with. I mean sure... Ronaldo lost in 98 as a 21 year old, but he did play well in many of the games until he went to the hospital, suffering from convulsions! But I digress, not to turn this into a Pele vs. Ronaldo debate. As for Ronaldo, living life and defending him, Ronaldo's a grown man and in the end he is the one that is responsible for his actions and words and suffers the consequences of those decisions. Not really sure what set-off the tangent on 'parenting', so I'll just drop it at that and leave with the fact that any fan has the right to their opinion.
alex my point was that the players of yesteryear with amazing skills would have taken advantage of the sophiticated trainings and technology to get stronger too. so that subject is mute. but when we judge the players of different eras we judge them on skills exibitions. nobody was as phisically gifted as pele. no one. this man defies gravity.speed and power he had it all[ronaldo] the ability to take over a game he had it[maradona] the ability to win a game thru his teammate... that is a playmaker[ronaldonho].... the ability to shoot from any where with both legs.. i mean cannon[roberto carlos, beckham,adriano]the ability to do amazing physical feats[like micheal jordan] like the bicycle kick which he perfected, the ability to score[ romario, and pele wasnt actually a true striker but he was better than any striker] he was the perfect player[meaning that some players might be good at one thing and be average on another but this man was great in all. he had no weakness[he was even a great goalkeeper]! you might say his height was a deficiency but he colud out leap the taller defenders in the game. the header he scored against italy in wc70 final.he out jumped all those tall italian defenders. pele being like jordan was ehibited in the wc70 finals on the 3rd goal [i think] when he went up the air to grap a hard shot by gerson with his head and while in the air pele used his head to slow down the ball and in the process while still in the air, headed the ball pinpoint to jairzinho feet and he scored! those are the things that todays player rarely do[on that goal he did 3 things while up in the air and all those 3 things were done to perfection. the man's hang time was just incredible.right there he showed his skills and his genius]. those are godgiven skills man!! the man was in a different world all his own. what he did on the jairzinho goal, was it because of the era that he played? no. . its just great individual skills that can adapt in any era! both albert einstein and sir isaac newton were scientific geniuses back in the day , you mean to tell me that those 2 scientists who discovered theories that led to amazing scientific discoveries today are not that great because they where in a different era! they set the tone how to do things and scienties today copied from them and took it to the next level. they were the poineers. just like pele. whatever he did on the field, all the amazing feats he exhibited on the field is being followed by todays player! he was the master and todays player are his followers.no student can be greater than the master. accomplisments like the number of trophies won can be influenced by the era but skills are eternal my friend! all the things todays players are doing its the same thing he did but he did it better and he started it all! a question mr alex? how would todays player fair in the old days when there were no card system. back in the day you could get mauled,punched and be injured intentionally and the refs wont call it! just like pele was practically thugged up by the portuguese team in wc66 and sent out of the tornament and that action directly lead to the card system! so it was not easy playing in that era too!
Just as Pelé would do well today, current players would do well back then, after all they'd be exposed to that environment, not this one. And while Portugal's atrocious behavior in 1966 (and Hungary's and other's) contributed to clamping down on the violence and physicality in the sport, you make two mistakes in your points here. The caution and sending off system existed prior to this time. Garrincha for example was sent off in the 1962 semi-final. Three players, two Brazilians, were sent off the the Brazil x Hungary 1954 quarter-final. The addition of colored cards to represent cautions and sending-offs was largely the result of the internationalization of the game and especially of communication problems such as that in the 1966 England x Argentina game IIRC.
thanks ombak. i stand corrected about the send off system! my point was that a player with great skills can compete in any era including players of yesteryear playing great today and player of today playing great in the early days! alex was insinuating that todays players were better because of the training sophistication and i said that with skills any player can adapt in any era! people are born with skills but traning enhanced those skills!
That's not at all what I said. In fact I made a point to say that I wasn't labeling Ronaldo as being better OR worse than Pele or Diego Maradona. I said that if you want to compare the players of different eras, you have to consider all factors of the eras that the players featured in - meaning you would have to include best practices and their skills as well as the issues that the players had/have to deal with. It's quite a can of worms to open up. At the debate's core, any opinion would be 100% subjective. What this means is that you could just as easily assume that Ronaldo, etc. may dominate in Pele's era too. Who knows? Maybe they would have excelled in that environment even more, and for Pele in the modern era. Maybe they would have developed differently and been completley different players. Or - maybe they would hae "failed". The reality is that it's immeasurable and total speculation.
I thought the rumor (was it confirmed?) was that Ronaldo said he was "white". Haha Few months ago at least
no, i remember that, what he was trying to say was that he was lighter then most of the black players