Soccernet.com article about our midfield problems

I love Donovan when he's playing box to box. Remember the scintillating victory against Mexico in, what, '03? The one where we got a very late goal on a set piece but absolutely dominated Mexico in all aspects of the game? Landon seized the game by the throat, both offensively & defensively. He controlled the match.

A more recent example, albeit not quite as spectacular, was the Japan match. There were several stretches where Landon was tracking back defensively and winning balls, then flying up field on the attack. Very effective.

That Landon, I prefer to any U.S. player in center midfield. It's not even close.

The Landon who kinda mopes around, him I'm not so crazy about.

 

I generally agree, but we can't underestimate the negative impact of Zavagnin's bad D-Mid play had on the rest of the MF. Combine that with DMB's horrid game and it's tough to judge LD's or Dempsey's impact. One thing's for sure, at this level, bad performances by one middie alone will kill our offense, let alone 2 of those guys havig a stinker of a game. I rewatched the match last night, and it's amazing how more effective LD was in that position once Convey and Mastro entered the game.

 

It's back to midfield math again:

1. If Claudio's healthy, he starts somewhere in the midfield. He's better in the middle of the park than on the right, obviously.

2. Bruce always goes with a destroyer d-mid against tougher competition. That means a healthy Mastro will be on the field, at least for Czech and Italy.

3. Left mid sorts itself out between Beasley and Convey.

There are really only two possibilities:

Reyna plays "off of Donovan's shoulder" edged to the right a little and back, starting over Dempsey.

Reyna plays A-mid and Donovan moves up to forward, where his performances have been spotty.

I still think this all depends on EJ--if he doesn't get dramatically better, we'll see the latter. If he does, we'll see the former.

 

Just to refresh everyone's memories, let's take a look at '02:

vs Portugal - one Forward (BMB), Donovan playing behind him
vs S Kor - two Forwards (BMB, Mathis), Donovan behind them
vs Poland - two Forwards (BMB, Mathis), Donovan behind them
vs Mex - two Forwards (BMB, Wolff), Donovan behind them
vs Germany - two Forwards (BMB, DOnovan), Reyna behind them

Vs Portugal, Bruce played a very attacking type MF (Stewart, LD and DMB all started) with O'Brien and Mastro behind that trio. he did this because Claudio was out and I really like this approach.

 

I was surprised that Bruce singled him out as having a good game because I felt like he was marked out of it for the most part. He was very average and didn't use his body to create space for himself - the ball was actually taken off his foot a few times. A CM needs to dictate the play, not have it dictated to him. The only time it is acceptable for him to lose posession is when taking someone on 1v1. Otherwise a CM that loses the ball, and otherwise gets very few touches, makes it really hard for the rest of the team.

Everyone healthy, I prefer him at right wing or up top. The box-to-box Landon has just shown up too few times.

 

It's interesting that in four years the only real change is that Mathis has disappeared and Johnson emerged - aside from that those names look awfully familiar and our number one forward is still our number one.

So Portugal ending being a 4-2-3-1 with the tactics being clog the middle and fly down the wings with the ball. How does that sound against Czech? How is their speed?

 

I keep wondering what will happen if both O'Brien and Reyna are healthy all of May. What does Bruce do then? Should be really interesting. I'm more alarmed with Donovan as an A-Mid than a forward to be honest with you all. All of his disappearance games seem to come with him somewhere in the midfield. This game did alarm me, but I felt we never really found out what we had in the midfield because Bruce played an ineffective Beasley way too long (I was praying for a Convey start so we could see how far he's come along), Zavagnin was horrid, and the conditions were awful. Granted the Polish side managed them better than we did but one of the biggest problems throughout the first half was passing and first touch, and in my view anyway, a huge portion of the blame should have gone to the condition of the field, and the 20 degree+ snow weather. I've never see the US look that inept with the ball at their feet and I definitely believe the field and the weather played a huge role.

That being said the troubles we had in midfield echoed the problems we often have without Reyna against elite teams. We simply have a murderous time maintaining possession, and consistently stringing together an effective crisp passing attack. I do tend to be one of the yokel's that believe Reyna can slow down or harm the attack at times since his style doesn't fit smoothly with that of Donovan, Beasley, Convey and GAM. However, games like wednesday's show where he can be essential. He would have brought a lot of calm to the back if he'd been around.

One last thing, this simply reinforces my view that a rating of the forwards on wednesday is pointless and useless. Although neither played well, neither got even remotely competant service all game and of course had to deal with that weather and the conditions of the field. If I'm gonna evaluate GAM and Twellman, I'll do it based on a game in Germany, pending the weather, rather than this one which.

 

Ives is totally correct.
Not only do Reyna and/or Obrien have to be healthy but they have to play well, obviously just showing up is not going to be enough, they are going to have to play the best soccer of thier lives.
I watched the Italy-Germany game and I was scared. The Italians are that good...it is just silly the combo of size, skill, experience, composure and quickness the Italians can put on the field! The US has some speed but the Italians play quicker.
It would not surprise me at all for Bruce to put out a 5-4-1 against Italy in June, especially if he gets a tie or win against the Czechs.

 

I agree with this, and with Dead Run's response, too, but I think it's a little more complicated if we get O'Brien back. In that case, there are lots of other possibilities. In that case, Mastroeni could sit, and/or Donovan could move up to forward, and/or Dempsey could sit, etc.

Regarding the Galarcep article, I generally agreed that the midfield was disappointing and that Zavagnin was ineffective, but I thought the article focused too much criticism on Donovan and not enough on Beasley.

 

Is the box midfield just totally out of the question, with Lando and DMB free to stretch the top half of the box wherever it needs to go? Seems to me then the back half of that could be manned by Reyna and Maestro, or Maestro and a lesser talent if Reyna can't go. (It seems that's kind of how Reyna and Barton were working at Man City, at least to my non-EPL eyes.) Then Reyna can be on and Landon can stay behind the forwards, where Bruce has said on tape that he prefers him. And Beasley can be Beasley.

What's the knock on this, not enough width? Just curious.

 

Nah, I think there's a 3rd, a box midfield of PM and CR behind DMB (or Convey, I guess) and Landon.

Not only does that finesse the right wing problem away (I like Dempsey, but I don't know if I trust him), it also gives maximum scope for Lewis and Cherundolo to overlap.

EDIT: Sweddust, you beat be by "that much."

 

We can't just have LD playing a straight forward. It doesn't suit him to sit and wait to receive passes. He needs to be able to creat more. But he's not a 10 either so the best spot for him is withdrawn forward where he really slide up and down the field and get the ball at midfield a create something or he can move up to the 18 and take a strike at goal.

I really don't think that LD is the guy we need to worry about though.

 

Actually, the article does address Donovan's midfield play against "weaker" opponents, and the author clearly views the qualifying matches and the Gold Cup as weaker than what the US will face in the World Cup, or even what the team faced on Wednesday against Poland. The author writes that Donovan is fine in midfield against below average or average teams, but is better off as a forward against the stronger teams.

That is a fair and logical argument. I may not 100% agree, but I completely understand it. Certainly playing Donovan as a forward is a common occurance for him as a pro in MLS and with the Nat's, and he has proven he can play there.

I do very much agree that Donovan is one of the US's best two forwards, along with McBride. Right now neither Johnson nor Twellman are as good as Donovan -- obviously not at an attacking mid, but even as a forward. Hopefully that will change, because the more quality options Arena has, the better off the team is.

Right now the "race" for starting roles on the US team comes down to this: which of these guys gets healthy and in-form faster -- Johnson or O'Brien? And the winner of this little race will decide where Donovan plays most of his minutes.

Reyna and Mastro will almost certainly start two of the opening three World Cup games. Beasley and Convey have the left side locked up, and may also fill in on the right if needed. (Dempsey is working on locking up a key reserve spot.) There is ONE open midfield spot and ONE open forward spot. Donovan will get one of those spots. The other one is filled by either Johnson or O'Brien. If O'Brien is ready to go and Johnson is still working out the kinks, then Donovan starts up top supporting McBride. If O'Brien hasn't pulled it together, but Johnson is looking good, then Donovan plays attacking midfield, either in a diamond or in a box shape.

Donovan starts no matter what, but WHERE he starts depends on others, mainly O'Brien and Johnson.

 

Ujfalusi (Fiorentina) on the right and Jankulovski (AC Milan) on the left are both top notch.

For the historical accuracy, Portugal had decent enough speed too, except Oliveira chose to go with experience (Jorge Costa and Fernando Couto) vs. the US. He had Andrade, Xavier and Frechaut on the bench, having left Ferreira and Carvalho at home.

And, FWIW, I agree with JohnR.

 

Buckle up, csctn.

 

I thought LD was pushed up at a forward v. Portugal. Granted it's been a while, it was late (or early), I drank a lot after but I don't think that was really McHead alone up top? I could be wrong.

 

The box midfield you mention only solves the midfield problem of not having a true right wing and of Claudio not being a true AM, it completely ignores the 2nd forward problem.

If EJ isn't back in form, and the only other choice is Wolff, you're back to the same dilemma again: where does Donovan play?

And will Beasley/Convey really be better off pinched in like that?

 

I think its just a bad idea to suggest Donovan as a forward anymore. I lost all interest on that after seeing him go whodini in the September 3 match against Mexico. Yeah, he didn't have a great game on Wednesday, but he also didn't play as bad as he does at forward. It's got to be very difficult to be playing center-mid when the guys around you aren't doing much either. Beasley wasn't himself, Dempsey didn't show what he showed in the camp, KZ was as poor as he's been this year, and the forwards aren't good a getting involved in the offense. Yeah Twell showed he's a fighter and will come back on D, but he doesn't help move the ball up the pitch, he just gets in position to get to crosses. EJ still isn't what he used to be, which is starting to scare me. I really believe that if Bease and EJ were making the runs that they usually make, if Kerry supported him better to relieve some of the pressure on him and if Donovan had more opportunities to set them up we wouldn't be having this conversation right now. Donovan not moving the ball and controlling tempo isn't solely his part. We don't expect him to dribble through 7 defenders and middies, so you gotta put alot of the blame on his supporting cast too.

 

I think Galcarep is right on target. Especially given the poor performance of our other forwards, put McHead as the target, Donovan up front but slightly withdrawn, a (I hope, I hope) healthy Reyna in the middle, try DMB on the right, and Convey on the left, Pablo in the DM slot (Zavagin is simply not up to this level of play.) If Wednesday's midfield couldn't handle the Poles, when Gattuso or Essien start hammering in there, it will only get worse.

 

I could not agree more with this article in every way.

 

I do agree with Ives that Reyna is a very good option to have in the midfield but I think he's way off on Donovan at forward. Ives tends to take a small bit of data and make some pretty horrible assumptions.

1st off, Ives repeatedly talks about KZ's problems and then spins off to Reyna and Donovan without mentioning Mastroeni's effect on the midfield. It isn't until the end of the piece that Ives makes a small mention of Mastro as if Pablo isn't a big part of the equation. Ives misses the point.

2nd, Ives comments on Reyna in the midfield as if he is a replacement for Donovan. He's not and it's rediculous to think so. In a 4 man midfield Reyna will either pair with Mastro (or JOB) in a box with Donovan ahead or Reyna will play the inside right mid spot with Donovan at Amid and Dolo providing width from the back. Reyna is not an A mid and will not push Donovan out of that position.

3rd, Ives completely ignores Donovan's poor play at forward against Mexico and TnT. These were the last times Donovan played up top and Donovan was not good. Then Ives says...

Ives actually mentions Donovan's "confidence going at defenders"? With the ball? That's one of Donovan's main weaknesses, he rarely takes defenders on one v one at the international level.

I'm just not impressed with Ives' columns, there's better analysis on BS and that's kinda sad.

 

But this was his FIRST opportunity to play as the AM vs. a stronger european team. And he didn't do nearly as badly as some people are saying. Had he had a little help from the other midfielders and forwards - who, by the way, with the exception of Beasley (who played the worst game he has ever played in his life), were playing in their first tough European competition - perhaps Yves writes a different article.

I think LD deserves a little more credit and a little more time (though I admit time is in short supply) to adjust to playing this position versus tougher competition. After one game is a little early to say it won't work.