2/6/06: It's Grape

Discussion in 'The Beautiful Game' started by The Blind Pig, Feb 6, 2006.

  1. AngelN

    AngelN New Member

    Oct 14, 1999
    it's so nice to see the NYTimes giving some props to the "M.S.L."
     
  2. Brownswan

    Brownswan New Member

    Jun 30, 1999
    Port St. Lucie, FL
    From the Player article:

    "While the Cosmos make for an irresistible narrative, they don't deserve to embody the game's glory days — which would be now."

    Amen!

    As for Jones, when has he ever cared about any MLS team in particular or MLS in general. Any chance he gets he will belittle the league and predict its demise. I did post a reply to his screed in an email to the Times. I'm not a Houston fan, but the transparency of his attack is too obvious not to respond, just like that doggerel that Gardner published last week.
     
  3. The Blind Pig

    The Blind Pig Member

    Jul 14, 2005
    Section 8
    worry less about msl

    they said major league soccer


    it happens... not a big deal
     
  4. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 New Member

    Jan 27, 2002
    Falls Church, VA
  5. JRstriker12

    JRstriker12 New Member

    Jan 27, 2002
    Falls Church, VA
  6. brittkamp

    brittkamp Member

    Nov 22, 2003
    Connecticut
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LA times article

    1. Bruce can say anything he wants but to make it a reality would take a huge effort not only from MLS but the Mexican League as well. We know the Playoffs are flawed but they have improved from the "first to five" from a few years ago.
    Hell, I got an idea Why doesn't MLS teams schedule every good team concacaf and make the games count and we could count the friendlies against the european teams as well.

    2. Houston 1836 has been positively recieved by the majority of sportsfans adn media circles. It was not a mistake to move the Quakes, it was just a shame!

    Stupid article, not really a fact based one but a Bush style cherry picking of negative tidbits and cobbled together for an article.
     
  7. Stan Collins

    Stan Collins Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Silver Spring, MD
    Re: LA times article

    Agreed on both counts.

    1. HRH tries to brutalize MLS for ignoring Arena, and then totally ignores Arena's point.

    2. What HRH doesn't know about the research Oliver Luck did or did not do, what the year 1836 really means to Latinos, or for that matter about the Texian Revolution, would overflow a Funk and Wagnalls. And if that ain't enough, he has to denigrate the value of Sam Houston as a symbol. You don't have to call me Merle Haggard (anymore), but this guy's walkin pretty damn close to my fightin side.

    I swear, if he wrote an article in support of mom, apple pie and the American way he'd be such an arrogant ass about it as to make me question my support.
     
  8. tex0313

    tex0313 Member

    Dec 17, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    does he know that a lot of central americans hate mexicans,? there are a lot more than mexicans living in houston
     
  9. vmax71

    vmax71 BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 11, 2002
    high desert
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :p

    I haven't seen all of these type of articles on him but this one seems to have a little a little bite to it doesn't it? ... Oh well ... 5 million pounds is 10 million dollars, right?

    I would personally hold out for 10 million pounds. This a drop in the bucket to chelsea and isn't that how much crew stadium cost?
     
  10. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Re: 2/6/06: It's Grape

    Hoosiers? "I want to know what flavor of gum he's chewing?"
     
  11. denver_mugwamp

    denver_mugwamp New Member

    Feb 9, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    If I was MLS, I'd take the bigtime payoff and send Freddy on his way. The kid is still a long way from even being a consistent starter in MLS and he's washed up as a crowd draw at the age of 16. I'm beginning to have my doubts about him ever living up to his hype. Freddy is a natural forward in a midfielder's body who doesn't want to play defense. It's one thing to have the star attitude when you deliver the goods but in Freddy's case, I'm beginning to have my doubts. 10 Millions pounds? I'd be laughing all the way to the bank.
     
  12. TIKY

    TIKY New Member

    Apr 6, 2001
    San Diego
    Totally agree. Is he a great 16 year old soccer player? Yes. Is he worth all the hype? Depends on how long it lasts and it seems to be waning, particularly because of his attitude.
     
  13. TIKY

    TIKY New Member

    Apr 6, 2001
    San Diego
    "the country’s most celebrated player"

    Other than Freddy's agent, WHO THE HELL SAYS THIS?!

    How about Landon Donovan, Demarcus Beasley, Cobi Jones. . .
     
  14. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Freddy has the potential of being a top-10 in the world talent.

    Selling him for 10 million pounds is under-selling him. Chelsea would be laughing all the way to the bank.

    Plus, I kinda think that it's in Chelsea's interest to have in MLS, build up a following, so that when he goes to England, there's more of in interest in Chelsea (shirts, ppl, shirts).
     
  15. denver_mugwamp

    denver_mugwamp New Member

    Feb 9, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Ah, that word "potential". I think that most professional players, after a couple of years, begin to learn their role in game--what can and can't do against higher-quality opponents. They begin to find things that work and discard the stuff that doesn't. But from what I've seen of young Mr. Adu, he still hasn't a clue. There's an occasional good pass and sometimes, every once in a while, a goal. But it's never dawned on the kid that he's not playing against 15 year olds anymore. I hope I'm wrong. But for someone having "the potential of being a top-10 in the world", there just isn't enough things that he does right. Here's hoping he makes a liar out of me.
     
  16. USsoccerman

    USsoccerman Member

    Oct 8, 2003
    New York
    £5m is $8.7M+
     
  17. Upton O'Goode

    Upton O'Goode Member

    Mar 8, 2001
    Gifu City, Japan
    I can go along with "screed", but I think you might want to double check on "doggerel" - unless Gardner's gone in for comic poetry now.
     
  18. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Tow things.

    1. Its simple math. MLS games will all matter a whole lot more when there are more teams in the league and it is harder to get into the playoffs. Right now only 4 teams miss the playoffs, meaning there is very little incentive to play great soccer with you best team all season. By 2010 MLS should have 18 teams and be alot more competitive.

    2. The current "controversy" over the Houston 1836 is pure poppycock and historical revisionism. Someone, might want to point out that many Tejanos (Mexicans) fought in the Alamo and then with Sam Houston against the somewhat despotic Santa Ana. 1836 is of course when Texas was established as a republic, and Sam Houston was an important leader in that movement. As flawed as Sam Houston and the Texas Revolution were, they still are a historical fact that can be celebrated without offending Americans of Mexican descent, many of which are proud to live in Teaxas in the USA. What in fact is wrong with commemorating the historical fact of Texas becoming independent? Are we to assume that Texas would have been better off under the dictatorship of Porfirio Diaz, and then almost 100 years of PRI hegemony, corruption, and oppression (sans Lazaro Cardenas)?

    Texas and the USA is not about White people against Mexicans. It is about opportunity and freedom for all people. Celebrating an event that was a part of that long process is not nescessarily insensitive and wrong, although in the wrong spirit it can be.

    The name is not casting Mexicans in a poor light, no more that The Revolution or the Patriots is an ardent attack on Brits. Its a fun nickname with historical significance to the city.

    Granted names like Seminoles, Redskins, and Indians are offensive, because they cariacature a race of people. Not cool.
     
  19. Northside Rovers

    Jan 28, 2000
    Austin TX
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Why do we have to wait so damn long? Why not do it now?
     
  20. uclacarlos

    uclacarlos Member+

    Aug 10, 2003
    east coast
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Spain
    Bullshit.

    What's "revisionist" about observing that, duh, Mexicans view the events of 1836 from a different vantage point, and that for Mexicans there are distinctly negative associations w/ this loss of land?

    Why... look at a quick example in today's NY Times for a reference to this perspective. From an article on the US Treasury Dept. forcing a Sheraton hotel to expel a Cuban delegation in Mexico:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/07/international/americas/07mexico.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

    It's not about PC run amok and being insensitive to a vague group of ppl.

    It's about pissing off your targeted audience.

    Why would you want to launch your franchise in the context of a negative event (in the eyes of part of your targeted demographic)?


    And nobody at any point has said that this casts Mexicans in a poor light.

    What they've said... repeatedly... is that the loss of Texas was a h-uge blow to Mexico, and Mexicans, including immigrants in Texas, have negative associations w/ the era.
     
  21. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, I never said that I liked the name...

    I voted for Apollos.


    Anyway, it is still to be determined whether the name will keep Mexican fans away in droves. In the long run I seriously doubt it.

    I still assert that the issue at hand is pure nonsense and would guess that many Tejanos with 4-5 generations in Texas might even laud the name. In the end, the Texas revolution ended up being good for most people living in Texas and in the Southwest then and now, so I still am not sure why commerating the revolution against a dude who had a state funeral for his leg is all that offensive, and who knows maybe they will get a history lesson out of it.

    As for the continued little brother complex that we seem to battering around abit, that inhabits the space between Mexico and the USA, the team is not trying to sell itself in Mexico, and its "Mexican" fans in the US are already or will soon be citizens of the USA, so whats the problem?

    I guess I fail to see how a past historical'political event is offensive to people who will be determining the historical-political future of a completely different country.

    Of course I am generalizing on many parts here.

    I guess I continue to see the USA as a place where you can retain your culture but where you usually should check your past nationalistic and political preclivities at the door, pollyannish as that may be.

    Peace Out!!!

    Viva Juan Seguin.
     
  22. Dignan

    Dignan Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Granada
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    Good point. Probably the best way is to cut the playoff teams down to 4 total for now until they add Toronto and Vague Midwestern Team To Be Announced in 60 Days.

    I am still against singel table and no playoffs, though. And that will never work in MLS, because they will never go to a promotion/relegation format, for financial reasons. And in a single table with no relegation we are back at the same problem, for the bad teams in any given year, absolutely no reason to play the last half of the season, because they are completely out of it.

    Leagues in Europe reamain interesting all season, because even if your team sucks, they still have something significant to play for i.e. not having to play in the 2nd division.
     
  23. OldFanatic

    OldFanatic Member

    Jan 12, 2004
    Bay Area
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I know this is becoming off-topic, but that incident in the article has got to be height of arrogance by American administration. How can they order American laws to be enforced on Mexican soil?

    What's next? Are they going to enforce that American laws are enforced on Canadian soil? Taking this to an extreme, will Canadian green card holders living in the US be prohibited from travelling to Cuba? Canada has a perfectly legitimate trade agreement and tourism with Cuba, you know? If you hold a Canadian passport, you could always fly back to Montreal from anywhere in the US, and catch a flight from Montreal to Havana.

    It would make better sense if American administration focussed on enforcing their laws on American soil for lot more critical issues, instead of throwing their weight around for dubious issues on other countries' soil.
     

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