Have Donovan and Beasley distorted our expectations for young players?

This is a great problem to have so Im happy to read about it. So maybe all of them are not incumbent starters but they all bring something to the table that will allow them to contribute at the international level.

Plus, every guy on the list is under 22 or 23. So they are all mostly in their frist or second year of professional football. After a little more developement and some seasoning there guys are going to be even better, think of the potential of Jonathan Spector, give him another season at Charlton getting consistent frist team action, send him back to Man. United where he starts, in two seasons he will be twice the player he ever was and still under the age of 23.

As I said this is a GREAT problem for US Soccer to have.

 

I've seen nothing in Conor Casey's game that makes me believe he's going to be a great contributor. Even with his limited game McBride scored goals on the international level and that's who everyone keeps comparing him to.

I do look forward to seeing more of everyone else, though.

 

Yes, but not all in a bad way.

Our expectation now is that players don't get into camps, let alone games, until they are ready to make a significant contribution. That's a good thing: it implies that the setting for most developing US players, MLS, is at least good enough to prove fairly reasonably who is worth bringing to camp, something that a younger version of the league, and the NCAA before it, was not.

The bad side is more just in the minds of we the fanbase. So many threads where so-and-so is washed up when they've only been to camp twice and got 25 minutes in a friendly -- I'm sure we're all tired of that. Even after 9-12 caps, people think they can tell that a player "is not international quality." Which of course is ridiculous: 10 games from a 22-24 year-old player does not cast their future career in stone.

But elevating our standards is good.

 

Not every player is a Landon or a Bees. Most people know that . Ej is another young player that , after training , can become a major part in the US.Other young players have to kind of '' creep in '' and contribute little by little to be noticed.

 

Why did you even bother putting EJ's name in that list? The guy has 8 goals in 8 games. He's had a hotter start than both Donovan and Beasley. Many of the other guys on your list (Simms, Carroll, Rolfe, Pearce) have/had pretty much no expectations, and whatever we get from them will turn out to be unexpected gravy. Spector is one of the most beloved Yanks Abroad we have on bigsoccer. Onyewu is playing very well, and Marshall is generally highly thought of, and I've heard of noone writing him off into the future. The only 3 guys you listed who remotely come close to fitting into your description of being in danger of being written off by posters because of high early expectations are Dempsey, Gaven and Casey. Of those, only Gaven is a teen. Quite frankly, Casey is nearly 24 and SHOULD have made some sort of an impact with the time that he got. Dempsey, against the Concacaf teams of the world should be expected to play adequately, like a Brian Carroll has for instance. The competition by and large that he has played against, has not been earth-shattering. So at issue is Gaven. Not really too deep of a distortion when you look at it that way.

 

You forgot Bobby Convey. I would say that Gooch, Johnson and Convey together are roughly equivalent to Donovan and Beasley in terms of making an impact on the team this cycle. I, for one, think we can count on at least that much of an addition every cycle from here on out. On the near horizon, I think we have a number of young players (many even younger than the ones you listed) in the pipeline who have a good chance of making a similar impact in the next cycle, such as: Adu, Arzivu, Feilhaber, Kirk and Nakazawa. That's on top of Gaven and Spector, and no one is writing him off for 2010.

Several of the guys on your list probably will end up being written off, but they haven't been yet. I would say that the most likely to flame out is Dempsey, but only because I think he's overrated and he's among the older guys on your list. Of the guys on your list, I'd say the most likely to be significant contributors in the next cycle are: Johnson, Onyewu, Marshall, Gaven, Spector and Rolfe. Add those guys to the five I listed above, throw in our young base of current players like Donovan, Beasley, Cherundolo, Convey, Gibbs and Bocanegra and you've got a hell of a team for 2010: Johnson, Onyewu, Marshall, Gaven, Spector, Rolfe, Adu, Arzivu, Feilhaber, Kirk, Nakazawa, Donovan, Beasley, Convey, Gibbs and Bocanegra. Not too shabby, even if you assume that 4 or 5 will be lost through attrition.

 

"Distorted" - no.

Shown us what to expect, yes. There's no reason the US shouldn't pump players like that out every year now.

Johnson
Gooch
Gibbs
Convey

Etc.

 

Take out great and you're on the money. Why do we have to keep looking at this putz?

 

I think what it comes down to is:

1. The USA is consistently producing quality players.
2. Bruce has shown great skill at really easing new guys into the line-up and putting them in when they are in a position to succeed.
3. Bruce has shown great skill at finding the most synergistic combinations from among the players at his disposal.

There are, however, exceptions to #2.
He pretty much threw DMB to the wolves. He had to, though, and it worked.

Bruce got away from #2 in a way when he fielded entire squads of pretty much untested players as qualifying was winding down.
I think this caused a couple of players show much worse than they otherwise would have (and, hence, didn't build a lot of self-confidence in those players). Bruce knows what he's doing so I'm sure the players won't be punished, but there's nothing like bringing guys into the Varsity squad in a position to kick a little ass.

Far from being distorted, I think the USSoccer machine is just ticking along and doing a pretty good job.

btw,
Throw Onyewu into the Landon/Beasley group.
He's a star.

 

Not really. I would expect any American U17 who wins a Gold or Silver Ball to accomplish what Donovan and Beasley did by age 20. Everyone else, aside from Freddy Adu, I expect less.

So far, all my expectations have been met.

 

There is one trend I hope we get away from at least on these boards. Whenever an MLS player has a good month or suddenly gets some playing time overseas we're ready to annoint them with a cap. We're a mid-level international squad. Playing for our nats is a privelege and not a right. We're beginning to get a lot of respect from the international community and now its time to treat our naional team with the respect it deserves.

 

Given the numbers of players in the US pool of total players in the U13/14 age group, I expect between 2 and 4 players with the general ability of Donovan and Beasley to emerge by the age of 17-19. Two such players per year makes us a national team power; 4 such players per year makes us a really, really big power.

 

Two to four players each year who are capable of winning the two largest prizes at the World U17 Championships?

First things first. When Brazil's U15s come to Florida each year, let's have our U15s give them a butt whupping, instead of losing each & every time. Then I'll start to believe about a flock of 18 year old Beasleys.

 

The expectations of the US fanbase in general reflect the "instant gratification" mindset that so many people have. The early successes of Beasley and Donovan fed that mindset, unfortunately.

The reality is that different players develop sooner/later than others, and, "fans" who want everything now, and in one neat little bundle, are not willing to recognize the subtle differences in this development. Arena has, in contrast to this public preference, done an excellent job of recognizing this range of development as shown by the fact he has given several players repeat chances over a rather broad range of time in order to evaluate their development, and to give that player, as well as others, encouragement to continue to work hard to improve their game.

So finally, Donovan and Beasley haven't distorted our expectations, rather their early success has fed a somewhat uninformed view of how players actually develop in contrast to what many would like to see. IOW, they fed unrealistic expectations that many have of US soccer development.

 

as the depth in the usmnt continues to improve, it'll take an extra talented kid to break in as early as donovan and beasley...

onyewu is over 20, so the prodigy label can't be applied to him...

I think it's the kids 20 and under we need to focus upon and ask if they can break into the mix....

while the szetela's of the world have some talent, to assume a signifiicant role into the future is very unlikely...

adu is the EXCEPTION....we're talking about world player of the year potential in another 5-10 years...

players of that ilk are generational types....

let's define beasley and donovan to be one step below that level...

having one sub 20 player emerge in a world cup cycle might be a bit more than we can expect....

what's happening is the sheer numbers of good to very good americans is growing, and as these guys get experience and grow into the 23-27 age, this solidity of talent forms the basis of a strong usmnt...

and the 23-27 will be extremely difficult to break into...

only the succeeding talents akin to an adu would even have a chance

 

I think people often lose sight of what an exceptional pair Donovan and Beasley are. It is fairly unusual for a 20-year old to make a WC squad. Even more unusual for one to have as good a debut as they each did. And even more unusual for two of them to come along at the same time. It is as if Claudio Reyna and Tab Ramos (who actually were 7 years apart) came along in the same birth year. You can add to all that their being voted the top 2 players in the U17 tournament in 1999. We're not going to see another two American players be voted the top two players in a youth tournament in our lifetimes.

 

well it is not unusual for a 20-year old to make a WC squad.
Remeber Beckanbauer and his World Cup in England 1966. He was super young. Pele for example is another example. And the new german national team with Podolski and Schweinsteiger is pretty young and fresch as well. We are going to send "boy group" to World Cup in Germany.

Anyway I think Landon would have stayed in Leverkusen and used his chance with our team, if he had been a bit older. I think he just felt overhelmed with all this new situation. Anyway he is big talent. How many young players get such an offer from Bundesliga? Remember how old was Donovan first time in Leverkusen. I think 16. Also he is born talent.

Baesley and Donovan are like couple. They both suits perfect to each other in game.

German press reported recently a lot about Freddy Adu as your big next star.

Calmund, the former manger of Leverkusen mentioned that Landon Donovan is one of your biggest players.

But it is not unusualy that 20-old players make World Cup squad.



bltleo
GERMANY

 

Donovan and Beasley are such perfect fit like our prince Podolski and Schweinsteger (they are super young) and they showed what they can in Confederation Cup. They will be our big players in the World Cup 2006.

Donovan and Beasley will be probably the same as our Podolski and Schweinsteiger in the World Cup..

I like this "boys group" World Cup squad.

Bltleo
GERMANY

 

A range of responses.

1. Expected Convey to have the same impact as Donovan and Beasley? This is revisionist history. Convey was a year younger than his U-17 mates and often a reserve on that team. When Ellinger, Donovan, Beasley and other teammates were asked about who they thought would have impact from that side, Convey was not on anyone's top 5 list. Beckerman was usually regarded ahead of him. Cila was usually regarded ahead of him.

2. I don't think Donovan has distorted our expectations. For his first two years, Donovan did nothing at Bayer. But DMB may have created some distortion. From Day One in MLS, he has had an impact b/c he was no worse than a solid defender and created mismatches with his quickness. It took Donovan a couple of years before he looked like he belonged out there on the field. When he played against Brazil in the 2002 WCQ cycle, Convey was more impressive to the Brazilians. But Beasley from the git-go had some impact.

3. In 2002 it was easier to get a shot at PT with the USMNT. If Adu had been 16 in 2001, he'd have been a lock for the USMNT in Japorea. Hey--we threw in David Regis as a last minute replacement when Armas went down. Does anyone see Bruce Arena adding a player as poorly regarded as Regis was in 2002 to the squad (even as an alternate) this time around? Now it's a lot tougher for a hotshot P-40/GenAd to get earn a spot on the team b/c it's more talented and deeper. In fact, in 1996-7, Jovan Kirovski got significant USMNT minutes and he was nothing more than a player on ManU's reserve team. Now Spector (who has started for ManU and plays in the Premiership) may not make the team.

4. In terms of impact, EJ may turn out to be better than LD or DMB. To find a physically imposing striker who scores goals, has quickness and speed--that's tough to find at the international level. Lots of poseurs but few performers who do it. IF (and it's a big "if") EJ fits the bill, he'll turn out to be more valuable than LD or DMB to USMNT success. Santino Quaranta is another kid who was exceptionally impressive in his rookie year as a goal scorer (was younger than DMB or LD and fit in physically much more than they did--Arena commented that Quaranta wasn't thrown by the physical, bully-ball that bothered LD and mentioned Quaranta in 2001 in the same breath as LD and DMB). But injuries threw him off.

The point from all this is: winning a golden ball in the U-17's is no guarantee of anything. Many U-17 stars turn out to be nothing or inconsistent pros at best. DMB and LD are exception PLUS didn't get derailed or take longer like Quaranta and EJ were. Adu could make this WC team and score a critical goal that gets us out of the group... or tear an ACL in one knee then do the same with the second knee and turn out to be nothing more than a gimpy MLS player who makes all-stars every other year.

 

...others are named Clyde Simms

 

i think donovan and beasley's development has been different. i think we are going to see more players develop the way beasley did and not the way donovan did. beasley went from being a good player on the youth national teams to being a quality player in mls. he was pretty much an on and off player during his years with the fire. the 2002 world cup and the move to psv have really helped him develop. donovan is one of those special players that don't come along that often, like reyna or keller. if eleven donovans were born with that kind of natural talent i think the picture for the US's world cup story would be different. i think most of our youth guys will spend a couple years in mls, and then (if they really have the potential, like beasley) they'll go abroad and develop at a higher level of soccer. i think its a pretty good formula. beasley today is much better than the beasley of 2002. so if you really look at it, our young players have a lot of time to become quality international soccer players.

 

in 2002, regis was closer to be a starter than last man on the squad...

his mental lapses against holland, and similar lack of cohesion forced arena to sit him....

as to convey, he had far more anticipation than cila or beckerman, sure he was a rung below beasley and donovan, yet arena was pushing convey far more than anyone NOT name beasley nor donovan

 

JohnR, my phraseology referred to players "with the general ability of Donovan and Beasley," not the identical ability. And, as you know full well, winning those prizes depends not only on the quality of play by the winner, but the quality of play by the supposed competition (viz., Adu v Messi). And, having 2-4 top quality players per year will not necessarily equate to defeating the U15 Brazilians. Nor do I care about them whatsoever. But, over a period of 10 years, an average of 3 top players produced per year means excess numbers competing for 23 slots on a WC squad.