NAIA "All Americans": Oxymoron

Wait, wait, your telling me that Southern Nazarene didn't pay to send their coach to Ouagadougou, Bakina Faso, to meet with Mr. and Mrs. Dominque Nayaga, Sr., to talk with them about their son's future in small-college American soccer? I find it hard to believe. I mean, I know somewhere in Bakina Faso children grow up dreaming about playing in the NAIA tournament, but not in a place as sophisticated as Ouagadougou.

 

Sounds a lot like big-time college basketball and football and the NCAAs. Maybe soccer has made it after all.

 

What's even worse is the inference that those "showcase" teams are somehow actually affiliated with the NCAA D1 schools named. Wonder how much actual interest they'd get if the team names were Lindsey-Wilson, Rio Grande, Park, Lindenwood, etc?

The scam here seems to be a classic "bait and switch". Make the prospects think they'll actually get a shot with a name D1 school, knowing full well that for most, their prior background will likely disqualify them. Then it's the NAIA (or JUCO) schools to the rescue.

 

I have to give you credit. You know your stuff when it comes to what goes on behind the scenes in soccer in the US.

 

As a native Californian, I am so confused, dude - you'll have to qualify that last remark!

Merry Christmas Tom!

 

Absolutely hilarious! More rep for you!

 

I assume all of you are writing these threads do not coach at the college level and certainly do not seem to have any working knowledge of recruiting at the NAIA level. I mean no disrespect by the last remark but it seems that people commenting on this particular topic seem to believe whatever is written in these posts is the gospel truth. I can tell you it is not.

As an NAIA coach I can tell you one reason why there are so many foreigners at this level is because most American kids do not want to play for an NAIA school. They would rather play for an NCAA school whether it be sitting the bench at the divsion I level. That is a whole other discussion of the ethics of division I coaches who stockpile players that could play at the Division II or NAIA level if the Division I coaches would just be honest in the recruiting process. Omitting the fact that a player has little if no chance at playing is not being truthful.

The amount of professional players in NAIA soccer is dwindling just like it did at the Division II level when the NCAA instituted its new eligiblity rule several years back. NCAA has not been without its criticism of professional players. Maybe some of you did not know that but that was an issue of professional players with NCAA division II schools 5 years ago.

Very few schools have the resoruces to go over and recruit internationally. Some do but most do not. Yes there are some NAIA schools that do have professional players on their roster. Some do but most do not. Yes, most NAIA coaches when they cannot get a high enough caliber American player look internationally and why not. We all want to have the highest possible talent on our roster. It just happens that most of the Americans that go to NAIA schools are just not better then the foreign players and that is why the All American list is full of foreigners.

First Point is a reputable organization. I cannot say that they may have not placed a player that is a professional player with a college team but I certainly know that is not their intent. I know most NAIA coaches do not try to recruit professional players and certainly try to make sure a player has not played professionally. Just want to make sure the facts are there when we talk about this subject.

 

Hey Coach--you say "most" and "some" like its ok that some do it...be real clown and try not being part of a cheating machine you clown

 

There does, however, exist the question as to why this is "cheating."

Do we really want to live in the fantasy land that college athletics is about the purity of amateur competition?

The NCAA enforces these rules strictly because the creep of professional players into their ranks threatens to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs (football and basketball where big name universities rake in revenues to the tune of hundreds of millions per year without actually having to pay the players accordingly). If they let it happen in soccer, they'll have trouble keeping it from happening in sports where it could have devastating consequences to their profits.

Needless to say, the NAIA does not have the same concerns...

 

I have a very close that coaches an NAIA team that has only but one international player on their roster. This player actually came over to the US as a international exchange student in high school. He goes after the best American players with the likes of Creighton, Drake, UMKC, and others in his back yard. Not to mention the DII schools in Colorado. Yes, I am talking about Hastings who have gone to 2 final fours in the past 3 years, beat the English (Rio Grande), and is considered one of the top NAIA schools. We can also look at Baker, Seattle (before they went DII), Asuza Pacific, Evergreen, etc. Many of these schools do not get international players and do not need to because they work hard to recruit these players to their schools. To say that American players will not look at NAIA programs is false because they do and some very good ones. At William Jewell, there is a player who was on the Region II ODP team. They also want to play and that is something NAIA schools can offer. Yes, some kids do want to go DI and are willing to sit and that is their choice.

 

Aren't the DI coaches just simply doing the same thing? Just trying to get the best players on their rosters? I just don't see the possibilities for a college coach at any level to "stockpile" players. If you could show me a college DI program that has a squad of something like 30-40 youngsters on their squad, then you may have a point.

I see it more as NAIA coaches probably being lazy recruiters and choose to use the "all halfway decent players go to DI schools" as a convenient excuse to look abroad. Plenty of players out there, but it does take effort to find the good ones that aren't taken by the DI programs.

The other thing I have a little bit of a problem with is any discussion about ethics at the DI level. I can't remember the last time I heard of a 26-0 beating of a DI college team. I know it's an isolated incedent, but it's really hard to get past.

 

patriotscoach ~ Can you back up your comment that DI coaches are "omitting the fact that a player has little if no chance of playing is not being truthful" with FACTS and/or specific instances?

Your comment generalizes DI programs every bit as much as Mr. Archer's comments about NAIA seem to have (in YOUR opinion). In regards to your statement about DI coaches not being truthful, "let's just make sure the facts are there when we talk about this subject".

 

And I'll add that it's not possible to stockpile players in D1 ball. The maximum NCAA athletic scholarship limit is 9.9, and the actual average per team is just under 7. The NAIA has no limits on scholarships, either purely athletic or equivalency based.

 

There is a limit on scholarships in the NAIA and it is 12. There is a scholarship report that must be filled each year. Stockpiling?, from what I understand DI programs do have 25-35 players. Drake had 34 players on their team last year. A few years ago, Creighton had around 32. And the quaote about stockpiling in DI not possible because of 9.9. Are you forgetting academic scholarships and other forms of aid that do not go against the 9.9? Take off the blinders, men. A player, no names, was recruited by an elite eight school in the summer while still at another school. Everything was legal but the college had no money so the kid could not afford it. Viola! The coach within 10 days told the kid to change majors and got him a sizable "academic" scholarship. Lazy recruiters? Ask Coach Kranjc, Coach Pulvers, Coach Cissell, Coach Wardlaw, the Wolf Brothers (Asuza and Westmont) and I am sure they will tell you that they just sit around and do anything. I know for a fact these guys work their tails off and should all be considered for big jobs someday.

 

My main point being that there is good and bad, hardworking and lazy in any profession. This includes coaches. Just a quick question: At Westmont, how many players are foreign?

To make the general statement that DI coaches stockpile players and use it as an excuse to fill the majority of your roster with foreign players is rubbish . Players want to play for DI schools because the quality of play, in general, is better.

A second question: Why is it that when you look at the all-american list of DII soccer it is not overwhelmingly foreign? Most likely because DII coaches focus there recruiting efforts to within the boundaries of the USA.

 

Yeah, but that happens at every level of college soccer, from NAIA to DIII to DI. The coach at one DIII school that recruited me was also an admissions counselor and said that he could get me money even though there were no academic scholarships. DI schools have done it, and NAIA schools do it. A school near my home has players on its jv team with nearly full scholarships (mostly academic aid) but they got offered no academic or need based aid elsewhere, despite the caliber of the other schools being lower than the one that actually chose. The coach works in the academic department as well.

That whole "12 scholarship limit" thing is a joke. Coaches know how to work around it. Look at the squads made up almost entirely of foreigners. Do you really think that any of those guys are paying for school? Because they aren't.

 

A school's athletic budget may or may not have anything to with the the D1 9.9 limit. Soccer is an "equivalency" sport in the NCAA, which means that ALL financial aid (except need based aid or academic grants available to the entire student body regardless of athletics) counts against the 9.9 maximum limit. Bottom line: If they gave him academic money because he was a soccer player, it's the same as an athletic scholarship to the NCAA (although it may not have come out of the athletic department budget).

 

DSOC that is only true if the player recieves athletic aid. If a player only receives academic aid then it does not count against the equivalency.

The bottom line in this discussion is that there are problems with foreign players having played professionally at both the NCAA and NAIA level. The NAIA just happens to have more foreign players. If you look at first point's website you will see that they send quite a few of their players to division I schools. Someone attacked the credibility of first point then why do division I schools recruit from first point. Because the same problems exist at the division I level as NAIA just on a smaller scale.

 

Doesn't this "student athlete" fiction sound very much akin to the "Olympic Development Program" as if aspiring to play at the Olympics is the highest form of competition?

The sooner that these kinds of "shamateurism" find their way out of college athletics, the better and more honest it will be for both colleges AND athletics.

 

This discussion is not really made for this threaad but I will say a few things. Lindsey was the best team in the country, no doubt. Careful with the "level" talk since NAIA schools can and will beat DI schools. DI schools have major ethics problems but on a different scale and different issues. Scholarship number is just a number. If a DI coach wants a kid badly but has no athletic funds, I am sure he will find a way. Just the NAIA coach who can give what he wants to kid without limits and the DIII coach who gives a participation scholarship. Yes, I disagree with the internationals in the NAIA and with the All-American list but it is the coaches of Lindsey, Rio, etc. who votes on these lists. Take a look a the region raters and there is your All-AAmerican voters. It is a disgrace as I am an NAIA fan but also enjoy all divisions since every one of them brings an interesting twist to the game. And, the kids are all passionate and play very hard.