So.. by your rolling eyes you are saying that you know that Lowecifer's mock draw involving was correct?
I am going to do a mock draw using the current format. play-by-play, to provide suspense: predetermined: Germany to A1 Brazil to F1 Seeded teams: Spain to B1 Mexico to C1 Italy to D1 Argentina to E1 England to G1 France to H1 Pot 2, UEFA non-seeded: Croatia to A4 (Germany, ___, ___, Croatia) Ukraine to B3 (Spain, ___, Ukraine, ___) Czech Republic to C4 (Mexico, ___, ___, Czech Republic) Serbia & Montenegro to D3 (Italy, ___, Serbia & Mont., ___) Poland to E2 (Argentina, Poland, ___, ___) Sweden to F3 (Brazil, ___, Sweden, ___) Holland to G2 (England, Holland, ___, ___) Portugal to H2 (France, Portugal, ___, ___) Switzerland to Pot 4 Pot 3, CONCACAF + CAF: United States to A2 (Germany, USA, ___, Croatia) Cote d'Ivoire to B2 (Spain, Cote d'Ivoire, Ukraine, ___) Tunisia to C2 (Mexico, Tunisia, ___, Czech Republic) Trinidad & Tobago to D2 (Italy, T&T, Serbia & Mont., ___) Angola to E3 (Argentina, Poland, Angola, ___) Togo to F4 (Brazil, ___, Sweden, Togo) Costa Rica to G3 (England, Holland, Costa Rica, ___) Ghana to H3 (France, Portugal, Ghana, ___) Pot 4, CONMEBOL + AFC + OFC + UEFA: Australia to A3 (Germany, USA, Australia, Croatia) Ecuador to B4 (Spain, Cote d'Ivoire, Ukraine, Ecuador) Saudi Arabia to C3 (Mexico, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Czech Republic) Paraguay to D4 (Italy, T&T, Serbia & Mont., Paraguay) Iran to E4 (Argentina, Poland, Angola, Iran) Switzerland automatically to F2 (Brazil, Switzerland, Sweden, Togo) Korea Republic to G4 (England, Holland, Costa Rica, Korea Republic) Japan to H4 (France, Portugal, Ghana, Japan)
yeah, it did turn out very balanced. Going into the final 2 slots in Pot 2 I had Holland, Portugal, and Switzerland remaining. It so happened that the Swiss were the odd ones out. If it were one of the other two (Holland or Porutgal) going into Pot 4, then that would have made an unbalanced group somewhere.
Taking Things Further... Mock 2nd Round So..... taking things a little further..... Group A Germany, USA, Australia, Croatia Winner Germany, Runner-up Australia Group B Spain, Cote d'Ivoire, Ukraine, Ecuador Winner Spain, Runner-up Ukraine Group C Mexico, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Czech Republic Winner Mexico, Runner-up Czech Republic Group D Italy, T&T, Serbia & Mont., Paraguay Winner Serbia, Runner-up Italy Group E Argentina, Poland, Angola, Iran Winner Argentina, Runner-up Iran Group F Brazil, Switzerland, Sweden, Togo Winner Brazil, Runner-up Sweden Group G England, Holland, Costa Rica, Korea Republic Winner Holland, Runner-up England Group H France, Portugal, Ghana, Japan Winner France, Runner-up Ghana Second Round Germany vs Ukraine (München) Mexico vs Italy (Leipzig) ------------------- Argentina vs Sweden (Kaiserslautern) Holland vs Ghana (Köln) =============== Spain vs Australia (Stuttgart) Serbia and Montenegro vs Czech Republic (Nürnberg) ------------------- Brazil vs Iran (Dortmund) France vs England (Hannover)
Did you notice: The team that comes out as D3 will be the only team, that plays all three group matches under floodlight. Almost every group head has just on night match and about 6 other teams like C3 will have no single night match at the first round !
Wow, interesting--the US playing that opening match against Germany. I very much like the way you presented your draw. However, one minor procedural issue: A common misconception is that the leftover Euro team (in this case Switzerland) would be placed in Pot D. What would occur instead is that once Pot B was emptied, Switzerland would immediately be drawn into a group with either Mexico, Argentina, or Brazil. To facilitate this, once the seeded teams are positioned, another pot would be established with just the groups headed by non-Euro seeds (in your example, C, E, and F). Therefore, if E was pulled out of this pot, Switzerland would be placed in Argentina's group. I know this sounds peculiar, but this way ensures that Argentina, Brazil, and Mexico each have equal (33%) chance of getting 2 Euro teams. The way you demonstrated the draw, the chances are not equal, albeit slightly, due to the positions that Mexico and Argentina are drawn.
May have missed something, but hasn't the rule always been that the cup holders play the opening match of the tournament? If that is true, I'd think Brazil was a lock for A1, not F1. THIS FROM THE 2002 DRAW: Allocation of Pots The top 8 seeded teams are France (Cup-holder), Korea (co-host), Japan (co-host), Brazil, Argentina, Italy, Germany, Spain. According to the decision of the FIFA Organising Committee for the 2002 FIFA World Cup™, France has already been appointed as top-seeded team A1, Korea as D1 and Japan as H1. The remaining 24 teams will be distributed into Pots 2, 3 and 4 as follows: Pot 2: 11 UEFA teams (Belgium, Croatia, Denmark, England, Republic of Ireland, Poland, Portugal, Russia, Slovenia, Sweden, Turkey) Pot 3: 3 CONMEBOL teams, 2 AFC teams (total of 5 teams: Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, China PR, Saudi Arabia) Pot 4: 5 CAF teams and 3 CONCACAF teams (total of 8 teams: Cameroon, Nigeria, Senegal, South Africa, Tunisia, Costa Rica, México, USA). Pots for the group positions: Pot A: positions A2, A3, A4 Pot B: positions B2, B3, B4 Pot C: positions C2, C3, C4 Pot D: positions D2, D3, D4 Pot E: positions E2, E3, E4 Pot F: positions F2, F3, F4 Pot G: positions G2, G3, G4 Pot H: positions H2, H3, H4 Special pots: Pot i: Brazil, Argentina, Korea and Japan (non-UEFA seeded teams) 1. According to the match schedule, France, as title holder, will be seeded as A1, Korea Republic as D1 and Japan as H1.
The rule used to be that Cup Holders automatically qualified. Klinsmann also offered to let Brazil (once it was certain they qualified) have A1 (to play the opening game) and Germany take F1, for the extra three days preparation they would get. As it is no longer guaranteed that a cup holder will be in the next World Cup finals, I guess the hosts will take on the 'new' role of openers.
I'd hate to see that tradition die. Like Wimbledon, it's nice to see the title holder in that first match.
Well the tradition until 1974 was that the host played the opening game--so it's going back to that tradition.
I was under the impression that the leftover UEFA team get placed in the draw and if they get drawn into a group already with 2 UEFA teams they are "bumped" to the next available group. I'm not sure if this is true. For example: Say Switzerland gets drawn into A, 2 Euro teams already, so they get bumped to the next group B, 2 Euro teams already, then bumped into C where they would land. And then the draw would resume with group A drawing again, then B, with C getting skipped. Because, otherwise there would be the same issues with the non-seeded CONMEBOL and CONCACAF teams, and it kind of takes away from the flow of the draw. Your way would make the most sense, but I thought that's how FIFA did it. It so happened that when I got to group F, I drew Korea, and bumped them to the next group (G), then I drew Japan and bumped them to the next available group (H), leaving the Swiss as the last team drawn. So, oddly enough, Switzerland got passed over by 15 other "balls" over 2 pots, never actually getting picked through the course of the entire draw.
Your way is precisely the common misconception I was alluding to. The "bumping" method doesn't give the non-Euro seeds an equal chance of 2 Euros. If Argentina is in B, Mexico in C and Brazil in F; the odds aren't equal. Moreso, if Brazil is F, Argentina G, and Mexico H. In that case, Brazil has much higher odds of landing that 2nd Euro. Notice this part of FlipScribe's post of the 2002 draw: Pot i was specifically due to the fact that 3 of the 4 non-Euro seeds would get a 2nd Euro. The reason I remember this is I watched the draw last time and was surprised to not see the "bumping" method I had heard so much about.
Re: Taking Things Further... Mock 2nd Round taking things even further.... Germany 2 - Ukraine 0 Mexico 0 - Italy 0 (Italy win on penalties) Argentina 0 - Sweeden 2 Holland 3 - Ghana 2 Spain 1 - Australia 2 Serbia and Montenegro 1 - Czech Republic 3 Brazil 1 - Iran 1 (Brazil win on penalties) France 0 - England 1 Quarter Finals Germany vs Italy (Berlin) Holland vs Sweeden (Hamburg) Czech Republic vs Australia (Gelsenkirchen) Brazil vs England (Frankfurt)
Pot 1: Brazil, Germany, Spain, Mexico, Italy, Argentina, England, France Pot 2: Netherlands, Sweden, Croatia, Czech Republic, Portugal, Poland, Serbia & Montenegro, Switzerland, Ukraine Pot 3: Ecuador, Paraguay, Australia, Japan, Iran, Korea Republic, Saudi Arabia Pot 4: USA, Costa Rica, Trinidad & Tobago, Angola, Cote d'Ivoire, Togo, Ghana, Tunisia Step 1: Placing the seeds Germany to A1 Brazil to F1 Spain to B1 Argentina to C1 Italy to D1 Mexico to E1 England to G1 France to H1 Step 2: Placing Pot 2: UEFA nations 8 of 9 UEFA Nations will be drawn to groups A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H in this order. The remaining nation will be drawn into a group with one UEFA Nation. The nations will also draw a number to place them within the group they are going into. The Draw: Croatia + 3 - Croatia joins Germany as A3. The Draw: Portugal + 2 - Portugal joins Spain as B2. The Draw: Serbia & Montenegro + 3 - Serbia & Montenegro joins Argentina as C3. The Draw: Netherlands + 3 - Netherlands joins Italy as D3. The Draw: Ukraine + 3 - Ukraine joins Mexico as E3. The Draw: Czech Republic + 4 - Czech Republic joins Brazil as F4. The Draw: Switzerland + 2 - Switzerland joins England as G2. The Draw: Sweden + 4 - Sweden joins France as H4. The remaining UEFA nation: Poland. Available groups: C with Argentina and Serbia & Montenegro, E with Mexico and Ukraine, F with Brazil and Czech Republic The Draw: E + 2 - Poland joins Mexico and Ukraine as E2. Step 3: Placing the rest of CONMEBOL and AFC (including Australia) 1 CONMEBOL nation will go to groups A, B or D. The other will go to G or H. Drawing the CONMEBOL nations: The Draw for Ecuador: D + 2 - Ecuador joins Italy and Netherlands as D2. The Draw for Paraguay: H + 2 - Paraguay joins France and Sweden as H2. The AFC nations (including Australia) will go to groups A, B, C, F and G in that order. The Draw: Australia + 4 - Australia joins Germany and Croatia as A4. The Draw: Saudi Arabia + 3 - Saudi Arabia joins Spain and Portugal as B3. The Draw: Korea Republic + 4 - Korea Republic joins Argentina and Serbia & Montenegro as C4. The Draw: Japan + 3 - Japan joins Brazil and Czech Republic as F3. The Draw: Iran + 3 - Iran joins England and Switzerland as G3. Step 4: Placing pot 4: the rest on CONCACAF and CAF. 2 CONCACAF nations will go to groups A, B, C and D. The other will go to groups F, G or H. Drawing the CONCACAF nations: The Draw: USA + D - goes to the empty spot in group D The Draw: Trinidad & Tobago + B - goes to the empty spot in group B The Draw: Costa Rica + H - goes to the empty spot in group H The CAF nations will go to groups A, C, E, F and G in that order. The Draw: Togo - goes to the empty spot in group A The Draw: Ghana - goes to the empty spot in group C The Draw: Tunisia - goes to the empty spot in group E The Draw: Cote d'Ivoire - goes to the empty spot in group F The Draw: Angola - goes to the empty spot in group G The result: Group A: Germany, Togo, Croatia, Australia Group B: Spain, Portugal, Saudi Arabia, Trinidad & Tobago Group C: Argentina, Ghana, Serbia & Montenegro, Korea Republic Group D: Italy, Ecuador, Netherlands, USA Group E: Mexico, Poland, Ukraine, Tunisia Group F: Brazil, Cote d'Ivoire, Japan, Czech Republic Group G: England, Switzerland, Iran, Angola Group H: France, Paraguay, Costa Rica, Sweden
Ok, Here goes with the Second Round pairings again.... Group A: Winner Croatia, Runner-up Australia (Shock horror, after beating Togo 7-0 in the first game the hosts Germany lose 1-2 to Croatia and 0-1 to Australia - with Schwarzer saving a last minute penalty). Group B: Winner Portugal, Runner-up Spain Group C: Winner Argentina, Runner-up Serbia and Montenegro Group D: Winner Holland, Runner-up USA (Unfortunately, Italy draw all three games; Holland win two; and US win one). Group E: Winner Ukraine, Runner-up Mexico Group F: Winner Brazil, Runner-up Japan (The co-hosts from the last World Cup Finals amazingly beat Czech Republic 3-2). Group G: Winner England, Runner-up Switzerland (Kuhn's men looked like headless chickens but somehow they beat Iran 1-0, with Alex Frei getting the lucky touch in the 88th minute). Group H: Winner France, Runner-up Paraguay. (Like Italy, Sweden didn't lose a game... but then they didn't win one either). Second Round: Croatia vs Spain (München) Argentina vs USA (Leipzig) ------------------- Ukraine vs Japan (Kaiserslautern) England vs Paraguay (Köln) =============== Portugal vs Australia (Stuttgart) Holland vs Serbia and Montenegro (Nürnberg) ------------------- Brazil vs Mexico (Dortmund) France vs Switzerland (Hannover)
A-Germany, Czech Rep., Paraguay, Korea Rep. B-Spain, Poland, Ghana, Costa Rica C-Italy, Ukraine, Ecuador, Saudi Arabia D-Argentina, Portugal, Switzerland, Australia E-Mexico, Netherlands, Tunisia, Iran F-Brazil, Croatia, Cote d'Ivorie, Japan G-England, Serbia, Angola, Trinidad H-France, Sweden, Togo, USA
Could someone please answer me this: How do they make sure that Ecuador/Paraguay avoid getting drawn with Brazil/Argentina and USA/Costa Rica/T&T avoid getting drawn with Mexico? There already is a "special pot" containing Arg/Bra/Mex so that the remaining 9th Euro team doesn't go into a group that already has two Euro teams. Will a similar "special pot" method be used to separate the seeded and non-seeded South American teams and the seeded and non-seeded CONCACAF teams? Or will they use the so-called "bumping" method so they go into the next available group? Does anyone who watched the 2002 draw remember what happened in regards to this?
Second Round: Croatia 1 vs Spain 3 Argentina 2 vs USA 0 ------------------- Ukraine 0 vs Japan 2 England 2 vs Paraguay 2 (penalties 4-2 to England) =============== Portugal 2 vs Australia 3 (yesss) Holland 4 vs Serbia and Montenegro 2 ------------------- Brazil 0 vs Mexico 0 (5-4 on penalties to Mexico) France 1 vs Switzerland 0 QUARTER FINALS Spain vs Argentina (Berlin) Japan vs England (Hamburg) Holland vs Australia (Gelsenkirchen) France vs Mexico (Frankfurt)