GOALKEEPERS or DEFENSE I find it curious the number of Keepers that get their name thrown about as "the best". Are they all really that good...?.... or are the defenders in front of them that good ! What good is GAA if no one is shooting at them ? I have seen some "good ones".... and then some "real good" ones ! I think the best I have seen all year are Dunsheath at Bradley and Conrad Taylor at PSU. They are both very capable of keeping their team in games. Conrad Taylor won the Big Ten for PSU. His defenders could not contain Indiana. If he wasn't in goal against Indiana for the BIG TEN Final, PSU loses by 2 or 3 goals.Look at the number of successful frosh keepers this year...them ?....or their defense ?
i agree. some goalies look awesome on paper, but that is because they have excellent defenders in front of them. in the pac-10 eric reed from ucla had the best gaa, but he also had marvell wynne, patrick ianni, jordan, and owens in front of him. all four of these players have represented the US at some level. Eric reed is a great keeper, but you tend to wonder if he would stand alone without his impressive defensive line. tally hall of sdsu let in slightly more goals then eric reed in the pac 10, but he did it with a less impressive defense. hall was the main reason they got so many shut outs.
first a generalization: goalkeepers tend to get a little too much credit when things are going well, and a little too much blame when things begin to go poorly ... it’s kind of like the quarterback position on a football teams … he needs the offensive line to block in pass protection, the receivers to run solid routes, and then to catch the ball after the pass, etc. there are other attributes that make up the total GK package beyond just shot stopping ... organizing the defense, communication, distribution, controlling the box, leadership, and probably several more I haven't thought about
No. When they make the saves everything is them but when they get scored on it just happens to be a metal lapse from the defense. Also, why do they give the keeper a save on a PK if the player shanks it 60 yards wide of the mark? Too much credit.
Sometimes they stand out like crazy, flying all over the 18, stealing crosses, diving, stretching, kicking...anything they can humanly do to stop a goal from being scored. Most D1 games the keeper may have 2 to 4 real saves, but when thee time come to perform they have to be ready and alert. I think thats the hardest part of the game for a keeper...concentration...staying in the game mentally. They say that Keller is as good as he is because his level of concentration is so high.
absolutely agree....its funny how keepers are given so much credit when they dont touch the ball all game. The all-conference awards are usually given to the keepers with the lowest gaa even if they arent the best keepers in the conference. any other keepers that have stood out in games that youve seen that didnt have the stats but nonetheless were very good?
Here's an example you might like: Robby Fulton, GK, Stanford 2001 0.24 GAA 2002 0.43 GAA 2003 1.42 GAA 2004 1.33 GAA Fulton's numbers dropped off suddenly, even though he became a better keeper over time. That's because the team in front of him went from sensational to poor. Last year his back-up was U-20 national teamer Andrew Kartunen, who posted a 0.28 GAA in 7 games, mostly against weaker opponents. Similar to Fulton, once Kartunen faced opposing teams that were stronger than his own, his numbers came back to earth. This year he posted a 1.29 GAA, practically identical to Fulton's average in 04.
Thats a real good example of what I'm saying. I think there must be a better way of grading keepers. It might give a better picture of actual GAA if it were some how tied to actual "shots on goal"...versus "per game". A good example would be Akron , a frosh keeper having a good year, but also plays behind one of the better defenses in the country who I am sure have been responsible for a few of "his" shutouts.
Hell ya, Dunsheath was a stud for us for four years, it's a shame his time here at Bradley is up, he'll be missed.
Dunsheath made a couple of amazing saves against Creighton. Great reflexes as the ball came around the wall. With most keepers, they were goals. Great job. But glad to see hime move on to bigger things. Yah a little selfish but Bradley will do alright next year and beyond I'm sure.
I saw Dunsheath play when he was at Rockford Boylan High School. The game went to pk's, He won with two amazing stops. I have seen him play 4-5 times since and each time he has made some amazing saves. When Bradley beat NIU 1-0 this year he dazzled the crowd with two acrobatic dives in the last 3 minutes to keep the win for Bradley. He has "cat like" reflexes which is unusual for a big guy, he moves like a smaller keeper would.
Over the entire course of a season, the far better measure of GK quality is save percentage. The GAA has too much dependence on defensive quality, and statistically, goals scored are a pretty small sample. Shots on goal are a statistically a much larger sample, and a keeper that's saving 90% of SOG is usually a keeper who's also highly effective at snagging and/or deflecting crosses as well.
I agree 100%. Thats why I would like to see a Percentage used instead of GAA. GAA tells you nothing, yet most organizations use it as a measuring stick. College Soccer News, Coaches, Recruiters, all use it, yet it is really an empty statistic.The keeper may have had zero saves in a shutout yet he will get credit for his GAA as if he played a big game.
It can work the other way also. A keeper who plays behind a terrible defense can be making a huge number of saves for every goal that is scored along with grabbing balls in the air and stuffing break aways. Yet his GAA is terrible. If he hadn't had such an outstanding year, it would have been much worse. The keepers GAA stats are hurt because his defenders can't clear a ball, maintain possession etc. When a keeper is being bombarded, some are going to get in. Thus, the GAA tanks even if he has played well.
As in baseball you have a batting average, slugging percentage,on base percentage,etc..There might be a way to design a combined rating...GAA tied to SOG somehow.
as asked before who are some of the better keepers in the country that dont necessarily have the stats to have been talked about?
This discussion seems to be around finding the "perfect" stat measurement for a goalkeeper and the fact that no one stat measures a goalkeeper's addition to his/her team. GAA is a measure of a teams ultimate success. Save percentage is decent, but I would argue a good goalkeeper can make the opposing team miss just by their positioning. If there is no stat we can base this on then the next step of ranking a GK becomes completely objective. From that standpoint, what makes a good/successful? The one that makes the acrobatic save? The one that kicks the furthest? The one that yells the loudest? If a GK has to make too many acrobatic saves, they are either playing against teams that can "thread the needle" with every shot, or he/she is out of position way too often. I would argue a great GK is like a great ref: you rarely know they are out there on the field. They make the hard save look easy, their position in the frame makes the opponent's scoring opportunities difficult, and they lead their defense and midfield through direction and support. Also, these days a GK who can play in the back with their feet, like a sweeper/keeper, can be as valuable to a team as an additional field player. Unfortuately I don't believe soccer is a great "stat" sport. Outside goals scored and assists (which IMHO has gotten out of hand with the "second assist"), how do you measure a players value to their team?
As a GK, I agree with this 100%. And GAA is pretty much garbage. It doesnt really tell how the keeper actually played, more of the defense in general. The higher and higher level you play, the ability to concentrate on the game with little or sporadic action in your end increases. You might only have to make 2 realtively challenging saves in a game, but you need to be alert and have your head in the game 100% of the time.
I'm sure there are several out there, but what got me thinking about this was seeing Conrad Taylor of PSU against IU. Indiana completely dominated as far as I was concerned. I was sitting in a chair at the 50 so I missed very little. Conrad Taylor was in, out, up, vertical, horizontal, and even hovered ! I always watch the keeper closely because its like watching a good hunting dog do his job..."a thing of beauty" !....that is, if he is doing his job. As good a game as Taylor had, it was said that the two teams battled and PSU prevailed. When in fact the game was really all about Taylor. If he doesn't have the game that he had, PSU loses 3-4 to 0, yet when you look back at it, it was just GAA, the statistical story was not told.. It just didn't seem to be enough.