Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread (Part 1)

Re: A Solution to Pre-Conceived Single-Table Fears...

As much as I am loathe to agree, I must. I just get the overall feeling that your Eurosnobs or fans of foreign teams will never believe that we Americans, to quote something once said to me by a Mexican friend, "live" the game they way it's done in other countries. They just can't accept it. They'll admit we have a league, might even watch once in awhile, but will never accept it.

 

Re: A Solution to Pre-Conceived Single-Table Fears...

Actually I don't see why MLS couldn't keep the conferences, at least so long as it's convenient to schedule games that way (as it is currently). You still have a Supporters' Shield winner regardless, and your idea would still work fine.

 

Re: A Solution to Pre-Conceived Single-Table Fears...

That may be so, but not due to playing quality, or even due to the fact that most Americans don't seem as interested in soccer as other sports.

I think it's the fact that MLS runs its league like a cross between the NFL and professional wrestling (single entity gives the impresion these aren't really separate teams competing, but one large comercial entertainment enterprise) that turns people off as much as the actual on-field level of play. That the playoffs render the regular season meaningless (and crown a sort of a joke/lucky team to the "championship" rather than a solid, consistent team with a good work ethic) doesn't help either. Nor does the awful TV production that seems embarrassed to actually be showing soccer on TV (while actually being embarrassing in itself), and tries to distract its audience from the game as much as possible. No, I think the things that turn people off the most are more related to how MLS runs its business and presents itself, and are all under its control.

In addition, plenty of people everywhere have no hesitation in supporting a small team with limited budget and medicre playing quality, sometimes even if it's not from their hometown. I don't think that's the problem.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

I agree with RedMenace. I have a problem with the sigle entity owner concept and how it affects competition.

On the single table argument, as much as I like the format for other countries, I don't think it will work here. I'm not sure if people realize this or not but we do have a balance schedule right now with the Eastern and Western Conferences. For those that are pushing the single table concept, the closest way to keep our current schedule and have "single table" is just have the regular season conference champs play a single game championship, but no one wants that.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

I would want that, except that they're wont be a perfectly balanced schedule once the league expands past 12 teams. So some form of additional playoff is needed for the time being. A reduction to 6 teams instead of 8 would be a good start.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

Good point.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

if you look at Garber's chat on mlsnet.com, he answers a similar question by explaining that if your team was 10-15 points back on a single table half way through the season, no one would go to games or care. at the stage the MLS is at right now, it is trying to gain fans and attendence. wait until we are an older established league like those in europe before MLS tries to change to such a format.

Americans always want to rush into things. Lets develop the league the way its been successful the 1st 10 years before we try to move on to something like that

 

My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

Hi all,

I personally don't think we'll ever see MLS get a single table format here in the US. I think that Americans have a "playoff culture" that would be hard to erase. And as BEASLEYMYBOY11 pointed correctly, MLS is still trying to gain a bigger audience.

So I guess we'll stick with the playoffs for a long time. I don't mind but they should be modified.

1. Like MattBurlew I think that only 6 teams should advance to the playoffs.

2. Conference finals should be dropped. Conference champions should be the teams with the best record in each conference. So this year, it would have been San Jose and New England. (The Supporter Shield would still go to the best team overall)

3. The Conference champions should enter the playoff in the semi-finals.

4. Home & Home games is crap. Go to Home & Away games. Otherwise, what's the point of having a home field advantage in the second leg?

5. To clarify #4: Away goals should count !

6. The quarterfinals should be East 2 vs West 3 and East 3 vs West 2. Best seeded teams host the 2nd leg.

7. For the semis, a draw should take place to determine who's playing the conference champs over two legs. The champs host the 2nd leg.

8. MLS Cup is one game on neutral ground as it is today.

9. The conference champs, the MLS Cup winner and the US Open Cup winner go to the CONCACAF Champions Cup. If ever teams win several of those titles, spots to the Champions Cup should be awarded according to the overall regular season rankings. For example, if the East champ wins the MLS Cup and the West champ wins the US Cup, team #3 and #4 during the regular season would go to the Champions Cup.

For the Libertadores and the Sudamericana I don't know but I guess that the MLS Cup champion should go to one of them.

What do you think?

 

Re: My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

1--Oh yeah MLS will want to eliminate two teams from the playoffs meaning less interest in them late in the season.

2 and 3 not going to happen as MLS wants 8 teams in playoffs.

4 have the most fair and simple system, single game elimination in each round.

5 I hate away goals rule a team should win a playoff round on the field not advance when goals are even.

6 no I want to ensure MLS cup is east vrs west

7 no

8 9 only things I agree with.

 

Re: My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

Since you know what will never change, you should know that MLS also wants each playoff team to be able to host a playoff game, so this will "never" happen either.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

No one seems to have a problem with the similar playoff setups of the other major leagues in the US. If the NFL awarded their championship to the best regular season team, people would think a lot more of the Colts and Peyton Manning than they have. There is great respect for the Patriots because they've stepped up when the conditions were the toughest. They won a Super Bowl as a wild card but no one seemed to be put off by that. Perhaps MLS could go to a series format like baseball, hockey, and basketball. The top four teams in the league make the playoffs, best of 3 series for the semifinals and finals. That rewards the best teams from the regular season by restricting entry into the playoffs but still acknowledges the ones that play their best when it absolutely matters. No one seems to think there's anything wrong with the European Champions League format with the single elimination game at the end. Does this accurately determine the best team in Europe? Should a Tuesday night game against Chivas USA count as much as a playoff game with your fate on the line?

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

The single table with "regional scheduling" worked beautifully in the USL-1 in 2005:

http://www.uslsoccer.com/2005standings/index_E.html

 

Re: My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

Why is this?

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

I don't get this argument. You're dealing with apples and oranges when talking about the 4 Major American Sports & MLS. Awarding a soccer championship to a team that was .500 and barely made the playoffs doesn't sit so well with soccer purists. Well who cares about soccer purists, you say? For sure not MLS if playoff attendance is any indication. All MLS worries about is if their fanbase is recognizing who their corporate sponsors are, and whether or not Americans are capable of "getting" the game. It's a wonder that we ever got rid of the shootout and got the clock to count upwards.

 

Re: My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

Develops rivalry and loyalty. Like american league vrs national league. Who on the east doesn't hate those sushi,tofu eating LA surf dudes.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

No I want something more complicated.

 

Re: My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

If they get enough complaints about fairness and that attendances, except for LA, are not good for the first game of the first round, they might.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

EEUU:

I am in total agreement with most of your comments. We only differ on the "MLS Super Cup" game. I would play the winners of the MLS Cup and the Supporters' Shield as a prelude to the next season, ala EPL.

Still, I would emphasize the Supporters' Shield as the most important of the various awards by throwing lots of money and automatic Copa Liberatores qualification at the winners.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

The equivalent to the English Community Shield would be the MLS Cup Champions vs. the U.S. Open Cup winners. If a team wins the double then it goes to the league runner-up, i.e. the MLS Cup runner-up.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

I'm jumping into this thread without having read the rest of it and without really understanding how it's set up, but as I understand it, there are regional leagues, are there not? Covering different regions of the US. (The Eastern and Western Divisions).

Given the sheer size of the US, I'd imagine that it's not really feasible for a country-wide league, as travelling to an away match in San Franciso if you live in New York would be taxing for both players and fans (not to mention expensive for players and fans).

I can't really see, unless domestic airlines offer huge discounts or packages, how a single league is achievable. But then again, like I said, I've not read this thread, so feel free to criticise if I've missed something obvious.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

It's all the same league. While you play the majority of your matches within your conference, you do play teams from the other conference. MetroStars (Newark, NJ) did play Los Angeles Galaxy home and home this season for instance.

 

Re: My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

8 teams in the playoff is good if there is at least 16 teams in the league. With currently 12 teams, it's quite ridiculous. I don't want to belittle this year LA win, but we saw this year that you can be crap during the regular season and go all the way to the cup.

If the league want to be taken seriously, it should emphasizes the importance of the regular season. And the only way IMO with a 12-teams league is to reduce the number of tickets to the playoff. Once the MLS has at least 16 clubs, then it should go back to an 8 teams playoff.

 

Re: My 2 cents on the "single table / playoffs" debate

IMO, there are more chances to develop an East-West rivalry if you have more East vs West games in the playoffs than just the MLS Cup.

It's been 10 years now and, honestly, there hasn't been any real rivalry between the two coasts created.

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

If we are going to have playoffs that include crap teams, why is it important to give any advantage to the top seeded teams?

 

Re: Official Single table/abolish the playoffs thread

I think the main reason people advocate for regional competition is becuase Americans have become accustomed to having this type of setup. Heaven forbid that anybody try and do something different. The reason most give, however, it helps create a greater rivalry amongst those teams that play each other more often and with whom they are competing for playoff berths.

At MLS level travel should not be such an issue. Airfares are not completely determined by distance traveled. Aside from LA and Chivas and possibly NY/DC and NY/NE how many bus or train trips are made. At lower levels regional leagues that work parallel to each other would work well. MLS aspire to be big time and should not use travel as an excuse.