Mystery Solved (re: Arvizu, USA v Italy)

Discussion in 'Youth National Teams' started by Shibb, Sep 21, 2005.

  1. Shibb

    Shibb Member

    Feb 22, 2005
    Tampa
    Club:
    FC Tampa Bay Rowdies
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So, after reading much about this in the other threads, with the help of DVR, a good red wine, and previous discussion, figured out what was called and why on the goal/non-goal by Arvizu in the USA v Italy game.

    - Kick taken by Nakazawa. Everybody is onsides. Everything is fine.
    - Sarkode dives to the ground, with the Italian keeper, and helps steer the ball past the keeper. Some have speculated a "dangerous play" call on Sarkodie. I don't believe this was the call. Nor was anyone in an offsides position when/if Sarkodie initially touched the ball.
    - From the side view, it looks as if Sarkode has hit the ball again with his head. In the replay from a different angle he clearly whiffs on the ball, missing by a good foot or two. But from the AR position I believe it looks as if Sarkodie struck the ball. Arvizu is in an offsides position at this point.
    - Arvizu collects the ball and deposits it in the back of the net. AR calls the head referee over. HR disallows the goal.

    Net, I believe that Arvizu was onsides initially. If Sarkodie had played the shot into the net, there would be no grounds for offsides because no pass. But Arvizu collected the ball, AR thinks there is a touch once Arvizu moved into an offsides position, thus rules offsides and goal is disallowed.

    Later I shall drink a full gallon of cognac and determine the fate of the missing Mayan civlisations. But this is good for now.


    FWIW, someone alluded to something like this, in the postmatch thread IIRC, but until watching the game it wasn't clear to me what was meant.
     
  2. Rowray

    Rowray New Member

    May 2, 2005
    The commentator said Arvizu's name but it was Besagno.
     
  3. thacharger

    thacharger New Member

    May 19, 2002
    Southaven, MS
    Everyone knows it was a well-timed dummy!

    Except for the AR.
     
  4. Hillbilly Thunder

    Hillbilly Thunder New Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Ballyhooed,CA
    The Galavision telecast showed the replay over and over. The ball took a slight deflection off an american player before Sarkodie touched it. The camera angle was from the rear so it wasn't really conclusive, but it looked like Sarkodie may have been in an offside position at the time of the deflection.
     
  5. mickhayafe

    mickhayafe New Member

    Jun 4, 2002
    Bakersfield, CA
    I love the "may have been"s. I don't really care to dwell on it too much, especially because we don't know what was discussed by the two refs. (foul or off-side) if anyone has a link, enlighten us :)

    But, in the case that the player in question was seen as "maybe" off-side, the AR should not raise his flag. Just like a penalty in the box, if there "may have been" it's a non-call. I don't really think everyone will be satisfied, there isn't any agreement in the refs forum about the germany hand ball in the USA-Germany game in WC'02!!!
     
  6. striker

    striker Member+

    Aug 4, 1999
    If you are referring to Sarkodie's goal that was allowed, I agree that he received the deflected ball while in offside position.
     
  7. Hillbilly Thunder

    Hillbilly Thunder New Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Ballyhooed,CA
    The camera view was from behind, making the replay inconclusive. I don't know exactly where the assistant referee was positioned, but judging from the fact that he did make the call, I think we can infer that his view was conclusive. No "maybe" involved.
     
  8. Hillbilly Thunder

    Hillbilly Thunder New Member

    Apr 22, 2004
    Ballyhooed,CA

    I'm talking about Arvisu's tap-in, that was disallowed.
     
  9. lmorin

    lmorin Member+

    Mar 29, 2000
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    --other--
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I watched the replays multiple times and am at a loss as to how the AR could have definitively ruled on the play. When the arriving ball was being contested by the keeper and a US player, it looked (from one camera angle) like the US player touched (head ball) it on to Arvizu. However, I could not actually see a contact by either player in that view or any other. Extrapolating to the horizontal, slightly different angle of the AR, I don't see how he could either because both players were converging on a point blocked from the AR's sight by both their bodies. Thus, if the US player did indeed play the arriving ball on to Arvizu, then there may have been offside IF Arvizu was in the offside position. That is a second point of debate as the camera angle suggests that it was extremely close and, to my view, in his favor.
     

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