I think that if a city with a dedicated soccer fan base and can construct a 20,000 seat soccer specific stadium should be sufficient for a MLS franchise. The bottom line...building a soccer specific stadium is the number one pre-requisite for an MLS franchise. How can MLS dictate a $10 - $20 million franchise fee with a league that is constantly losing money with declining attendance. A Soccer specific stadium should be considered the franchise fee. Any additional fees should be paid to MLS to cover annual operating deficits. I think its unrealistic to ask for a 20,000 seat soccer specific stadium...AND a $10 - $20 million dollar franchise fee...AND to expect to pay annual league deficits!!! Is the MLS crazy???
It's called Single Entity System. All the league investors are billionaires or pretty damn near close. If the Rhinos can't come up w/ $10 mill, how are they going to come up w/ their share of the operating losses from 8-9 franchises?
The sanity of a group of people dedicated to starting a top division US soccer league is probably being debated by psychiatrists all over the country right now. I'm sure that Soccer League Syndrome will show up in the textbooks pretty soon. But the deal's going to stay the same--no dough, no show. How do you think the folks in Salt Lake City would feel about having to pay both the expansion fee and for much of a new stadium? MLS (which doesn't usually get a "the" before its name) is a business not a charity. There's a few years of losses ahead for the league before it can turn the corner. Organizations that don't have the financial cajones to bear those losses would only cause problems. It is a nice stadium. And it'll probably be the best in the USL for quite a while.
Instead of paying for a franchise fee....every dollar should be directed towards a quality stadium that is completely controlled by the soccer team...not a school district...a college...or a NFL football team. And the stadium should be located in exciting downtown districts ...not distant sterile suburbs. More money towards a soccer stadium ...not towards a franchise fee. What better investment for the long term soccer....a high quality Soccer specific stadium...in the complete control of soccer!!!
Thanks to domiond for originally finding this link: Update on PTP from Channel13 News Brief summary: Rhinos management meeting with lawmakers today, if the extra $15million is granted then they'll finish through phase 3 and open the stadium in April 2006. If NOT then they'll finish through phase 1 and open in August 2005.
Does phase III expand the seating, or just increase the amenities? Just trying to figure out if this announcement tells us anything about Rhino's MLS prospects for 2006.
I believe if they get full state funding ($15 million), it would be sufficient to build out phase 2 and phase 3 which would make PAETEC Park a 20,000 seat stadium. Of that 20,000...there maybe be a couple thousand temporary seats. The final number is still probably unknown because of constant changes and financial realities. If not 20,000 seats...very close to this number. This should make PAETEC Park MLS compliant. A soccer specific stadium, quality seating, great sight lines...a large high quality video scoreboard/screen...corporate suites and all other amenities typical of a modern sports stadium. ...and this package is adjacent to downtown Rochester..nearby to an entertainment district, hotels and restaurants. The only soccer specific stadium in America located in a downtown district. A soccer specific stadium owned by soccer (Rhinos)...not by a local school district...a college or an NFL football team.
This stadium would be absolutely perfect for MLS by phase III....no doubt. Absolute quality. Now...if we can just get that investment group ready we'll be in good shape
Phase III would do it from the stadium concerns, and at that point I really have to believe the investor interest would be there. I think lots of folks would be willing to help DuRoss form a group. And I would not be shocked if MLS cuts Rochester a deal on the expansion fee as well. Matter of fact, it might not be an expansion at all if an MLS club had to move. They could do a 'merger' with an existing MLS club. But even if not, I have to think MLS would recognize, if they wanted Rochester in at all, (and I think Garber in his last quotes mentioned them again), they'd be willing to recognize that Rochester has some assets to bring into the arrangement (the SSS, the established season-ticket base, the marketing agreements, etc) that have value. MLS knows that it's more about the attractiveness of the expansion situation than it is about the fee.
Rochester Rhinos United!! And quick reality check: given the exhorbitant cost of real estate in large cities, it's no major accomplishment that the Rhinos are getting a stadium downtown. The major accomplishments are getting a stadium built, getting public financing, and having a successful organization to pull this off.
If it goes to 20,000 I wouldn't mind seeing the US host qualifiers there in the future either. I don't think there are too many central Americans around Rochetser (could be wrong?), and it would sell out within days.
well I was hoping to go to a game out there this summer. If I have to wait a year for an even better stadium, I'm up for that too.
Guys...get real. The MLS board of govenors AINT gonna exempt Rochester from paying an expansion fee, and rightfully so. This is a business, not a charity. MLS expansion fee: $10 million NFL expansion fee: $700 million If you can't afford the MLS $10 million fee you don't have the pockets to compete in this league...I mean it's really that simple.
QUOTE: 'If it goes to 20,000 I wouldn't mind seeing the US host qualifiers there in the future either. I don't think there are too many central Americans around Rochetser (could be wrong?), and it would sell out within days.' As one born in Rochester, the thought sends shivers down my spine!! If that Speed ferry to and fro Toronto ever starts up again, then perhaps Carribbean opponents would be able to get a sizable following in Ro-cha-cha.
I'll agree to disagree on this. American sports are pretty much the only ones that place an entry fee on their league. most other leagues you can eventually make the top flight on merit not $$$$. That said, I think the Rhino's capacity to compete at this level would only be assisted by saving $10m. Who would you rather have - Metros haemorraghing money and no SSS (or fans) or the Rhinos who have an SSS and over 5k season ticket holders etc....? At least they would likely bring positive cash flow to the table, which is more than most MLS clubs can claim.
A compromise would be to place a $10 million "MLS lien" on PAETEC Park....or just place a $10 million Lien on the Rhino's MLS franchise. This would insure the League would eventually get the $10 million when MLS franchise values increase substantially or when the Rhinos sell their franchise. The league...comprised mostly of mega rich owners...don't need the cash flow of an upfront franchise fee. The league and soccer in general do desperately need profitable franchises and new soccer specific stadiums. Put the up front franchise fees into a quality stadium and or into marketing/cash flow for the new franchise team where it will do the most benefit for soccer and MLS.
I think Sempuukyaku's point is that the $10million fee is more of a show that you have the upfront capital to handle losses incured by running an MLS team. There are more expenses involved than the player salaries. If you can't at least match the ante, you can't play the game. I'd say it's fair. Remember too, Rochester joining MLS isn't going to draw in more of the big Madison Ave $$$$ that comes via Adidas and other sources. Those type of Madison Ave dollars are what allow MLS teams to sign players like Freddy Adu to $500k contracts and Landon Donovan to a $1.5million contract. Without those type of big name players it will be hard for Rochester to maintain the level of success it has gotten used to and consequently make it difficult for Rochester to maintain even its local fan base. IF Rochester wants to draw on the MLS advertising money pot in order to sign big name players it should have to pay into the pot in order to join the league.
I think you would find massive numbers of any Carribean nation if those games were played here (Jamaicans, Trinidad), especially since Toronto is only a 2.5hr drive. (The fast ferry takes a little longer and is much more cost prohibitive than taking the QEW to the NY state Thruway).
A fan base doesn't get you that much income. You have to unfortunatly gauge the hell out of them and make them pay through the nose. Thats why the big clubs have so much money unfortunatly.
Yes, and Rochester is in what country? Maybe a couple of years ago, when the league was desperate to expand, there might have been some kind of deal struck. But in 2005? Rochester will be lucky if it only costs them $10 million. I heard the price was going up.
I think they got the land for $1. And they may have paid too much! We should see some positive changes in the neighborhood, but it's not REALLY close to the high falls entertainment district. It looks like a lot of people may have to park around there though! The "downtown" distinction isn't wrong, but it's pushing it a little. In the end, they could have put it anywhere, my ass is there. (Is that a Haiku? I forgot those rules)
To continue that metaphor, what you need is a decent population of rich people with an enormous nose willing to be gauged. That's my one concern about Rochester. If they sell enough luxury suites, they could have a break-even or better MLS club on not much better than they draw right now.