Cole has declared to the four winds that he received the offer from Mourinho and Kenyon at the hotel, with plenty of witnesses. There is guilt and is proven. I don't give a flying *****whether the points have been taken or not, or whether all of you want to jump off a cliff. End of conversation.
Not exactly, "EL CHELSEA EMPEZARÁ LA LIGA PRÓXIMA CON TRES PUNTOS MENOS" 23.04.2005 (Chelsea will begin next season with three points less) http://www.as.com/articulo.html?xref=20050423dasdaiftb_48&type=Tes&d_date=20050423&anchor=dasftb Previously published by The Sun. If the source is wrong, so be it. The fact still remains that it did happen, that Chelsea is guilty, and that it shows what they are about. This forum is not dedicated to Chelsea though, so this is really it. Let's leave this type of Chelsea vs. Real Madrid and the world discussion for summer time and next season. I am sure that you will give us plenty more to talk about, since it seems that you are to be our main contenders at european level (by literally using every means possible). We will see who is right and who is wrong in time. Somebody should just close this thread.
This is truly impossible....Keep on living in your dream world, but don't worry, the record will be set straight one way or the other.
I've seen good and not so good arguments from both sides, but now this thread is getting ridiculous. How about closing this thread?
One wonders whether Iberian realises that newspaper articles aren't always 100% factual. In fact they're often worded to mislead naive idiots like him without technically lying.
Yeah, Chelsea have been charged. No guilt has been determined. You're using a source from the fcuking Sun. That's worse than using Tribal Football for transfer rumors.
Try harder. I'd have to be the best paid bookeeper in the world who doesn't work for the mafia. But then again, you are the same person that thought Pele was overrated because he slept with a lot of women. HOW. Explain HOW. If you want to launder money through a football club, you could, in theory. Unfortunately, what Roman has done, is the opposite of laundering money. Almost every single structured finance SPV is registered in the Caymans. So what? Its tax purposes. No, actually they haven't. What does Kia Joorbachian's money have to do with Roman? Yeah, Kia and Roman are friends. But Michael Kasyanov's seen with Roman too. Does that mean Roman controls the government? Oh yes, reporters have speculated about it. Unfortunately, most reporters don't understand money laundering. Much like you. That isn't actually money laundering. LOL. Money laundering involves taking "dirty money" and cleaning it. The example above is simple tax evasion, not money laundering. Oh, I've read that Economist article. Unfortunately, the money laundering you're referring to there is quite different from what Roman is doing. A football club like Chelsea is a terrible vehicle to launder money, because to launder money you need to be able to sell assets for clean money that you bought for dirty money. Roman's not doing that. You could make a really specious argument that he could use the Corinthians entity (which isn't actually controlled by him, but lets run with your fantasy) to launder money, but given how much Corinthians have been playing for players, that makes no sense either. Your attempt to show Roman controls Porto is equally goofy; Porto have been buying Brazilians for AGES. You see, you just don't know how money laundering works. That's OK, most people don't. Like the guys from office space. I haven't a clue how knee injuries work, for example. That's why I don't talk about them. You also don't understand economics, since you claim Chelsea's spending hurts the midlevel clubs, which is completely untrue. Google is a powerful tool. If allied to actual knowledge. You've found hysterical articles by authors that don't understand money laundering either. Perhaps its time to reconsider. Although once again, feel free to tell me - how exactly can Roman launder money using Chelsea? I'm dying to know? Look, if you want to criticize Chelsea's spending, go for it. I don't care. Many people do. Some football fans believe its "unfair", and that it hurts their ability to sign players. OK; that's fine. But to suggest Roman's some sort of criminal spider spinning a money laundering web with Chelsea verges on slander of my club. For being a fan of a club that claims to have such class, you sure seem to lack any.
His post is more factually correct than any of your points. For whatever reason that I don't understand, you have been lying about Chelsea being found guilty in the Cole matter, since the decision in the matter hasn't even been reached.
You have a way with words. Particularly putting words in people's mouths. Or take dirty money and use it to purchase legal assets to clean it, which is what he is doing. Oh, wait. He hasn't been charged with anything yet....only all of his "friends" in Brazil (read the article partially translated below). http://www.univision.com/content/content.jhtml?cid=166581&pagenum=3 "SAO PAULO -El Ministerio Público de Sao Paulo afirmó que una asociación entre el fondo británico de inversiones MSI y el club Corinthians, que fichó a los argentinos Carlos Tevez, Daniel Pasarella y Sebastián Domínguez, forma parte de un esquema internacional de lavado de dinero negro." translation: The government of Sao Paulo made the statement that an association between the british investment fund MSI and Corinthians, who signed Carlos Tevez, Daniel Pasarella and Sebastian Dominguez, is part of an international scheme of money laundering. "El Grupo de Acciones Especiales del Combate al Crimen Organizado del Ministerio Público paulista presentó en rueda de prensa, los resultados de una investigación en la que concluyó que la sociedad entre el MSI y el Corinthians está vinculada al millonario ruso Boris Berezovski, exiliado en Londres y condenado en su país por crímenes contra el sistema financiero ruso." translation: The Group of Special Accions against Organized Crime of the government of Sao Paulo presented in press conference the results of an investigation that concluded that MSI and Corinthians is associated with the russian millionaire Boris Berezovski, exiled in London and condemmed in his country for crimes against the russian financial system. "Existen indicios suficientes para demostrar que la asociación Corinthians-MSI (Media Sports Investment Group) está siendo usada para la práctica de lavado de dinero", según un informe divulgado por la fiscalía." translation: "There is more than enough proof to demonstrator that the association Corinthians-MSI is being used for the practice of money laundering", as said by a report from the court. El anuncio fue hecho en la sede de la Procuraduría General de Justicia de Sao Paulo por los fiscales Roberto Porto y José Reinaldo Guimaraes, a cargo de la investigación. "Estamos combatiendo la mafia rusa, ellos tienen experiencia en lo que están haciendo", dijo Porto, citado por medios locales. El resultado de la investigación también vincula al fondo MSI al millonario georgiano Badri Patarkatsishvili. translation: "We are fighting the russian mafia, they have enough experience in what they are doing. The result of the investigation also shows ties with georgian millionaire Badri Patarkatsishvili." (Dinamo Tiblisi?, one more in "Roman's group" perphaps?) Las autoridades de Sao Paulo, con ayuda de la Policía Federal y del Banco Central investigan desde hace meses el origen y curso del dinero invertido por MSI en el Corinthians, el club más emblemático de Brasil después del Flamengo. La cabeza visible del fondo es el británico de origen iraní Kia Joorabchian, quien llegó a Brasil en agosto pasado y anunció con bombos y platillos sus planes ambiciosos para convertir al Corinthians en una poderosa entidad, con una plantilla millonaria de jugadores consagrados y nuevas promesas. En Brasil se conocen como "galácticos" a los jugadores del Corinthians, que dirige hace un mes el ex seleccionador argentino Daniel Passarella. only last paragraph translated (this is tiring and useless): "In Brasil the players of Corinthians are now called "Galacticos".... La más importante contratación del Corinthians, a finales del año pasado, fue la del delantero Carlos Tevez, por 22 millones de dólares, el más caro fichaje en la historia del fútbol brasileño. El MSI dice haber invertido 34,5 millones de dólares en los refuerzos del Corinthians, incluyendo además de Tevez al también argentino Sebastián Domínguez y a los brasileños Carlos Alberto y Roger. El informe de la fiscalía afirma que las operaciones de adquisición de jugadores es hecha a través de terceros países y de empresas "off shore" que serían utilizadas para despistar a las autoridades. translation (you better revise your statement on "off shore" companies): "The report from the court also confirms that the operations of player transfers are done through 3rd countries and companies "off shore", which are used to confuse the authorities..... Again, the Brasilian government seems to disagree with you. I guess they are worst accountants that you are, and that they are probably confusing soccer with ping-pong. Then again, when you guys have nothing else to say you simply go into personal disqualification, or the requirement of "facts". The only thing I have asked you to do is not to rennounce of your allegiance to Chelsea, only to open your eyes a bit....and for other Real Madrid forum members to start understanding what it is that we have to deal with and who the real enemy is from now on.
Not at all. I merely ask questions. You get upset because you can't answer them, simply because you are ignorant of the facts. All you can do is use google. Which, again, is a powerful tool. But only with the right knowledge base. Of course, that makes no sense. Because, if you have a clean asset you aren't selling (and can't), that's not money laundering. That's SPENDING. If I spent 30M on a giant party, even if it was dirty money, it wouldn't be money laundering. Unfortunately the above article says nothing about Roman. Its no different than me posting about Jesus Gil y Gil and saying he runs Real. Feel free not to translate for me, by the way. I read Spanish just fine. And I certainly have no trouble finding that Roman's name is noticeably absent. LOL. "Enemy". If you're not careful, you're going to end up with a Barcelona-like pathology. We aren't your enemy. We're just a football club. If you beat us on the pitch, its all irrelevant. P.S. Anyone who mentions with a straight face that Boris Berezovsky is wanted in Russia for "crimes against the financial system" is simply ignorant of anything that goes on in the land of the Bear.
. . . which is exactly what I said in my post above. Agreed. But didn't we establish that players are 'lured by the prestige of the clubs, their true possibilities of getting titles, and fame'? Some players who truly want to play with the best will sacrifice money for that opportunity. However, there are others who view the sport as a business and want to maximize their profits before age or injuries take over. While playing for his former coach probably also had something to do with it, money was most likely a significant factor in Carvahlo's move to Chelsea. So shouldn't you be happy that Real didn't get someone who was purely motivated by financial gain? Besides, if the clubs had a way of doing things to keep things in check, don't you think they would continue to do so instead of yielding to Abramovich's multi-million euro offers and thereby negating their past efforts? Sorry bud, but I don't think you can blame it all on Chelsea. Let's see: Red Rom took over in 2003. When did Figo's transfer, the most expensive at that time, occur? 2000. When did Zidane's transfer, which broke Figo's as the world's most expensive, occur? 2001. I don't think that middle teams like Valencia, Deportivo or Atletico could compete with those transfer fees. I'm not sure if you follow other sports but this is a phenomenon that occurs outside of football as well. Take a look at players' salaries now in any sport and compare them to 10 years ago, inflation notwithstanding. It is a business and owners will do whatever it takes to get the players that will bring success to their team, attract fans and generate revenue. The transfer fees that Figo and Zidane garnered were unheard of 10 years ago. Hasn't Real also been accused of unsavory negotiating tactics? With the exception of Makelele, I believe they're all still playing for Real. Again, those who care about a club's prestige and playing with other quality players usually can't be bought out. It seems to me that the thing that upsets you the most about this whole thing is that Chelsea has a larger budget than Real. If Real had the same spending power, I wonder if you would be as critical of Chelsea. There will be no definitive answer to this debate. I can understand your points and I respect them. I just don't agree with your opinion that Chelsea is the source of all evil in football and are solely to blame for the increasingly ridiculous sums of money being paid to players. Don't forget that Real was and still is frequently seen by many teams the same way you view Chelsea. As you said before, this is a forum about RM. Let's end this discussion before it gets out of control and shut down by one of the mods. Cheers.
The problem with that is that Valencia, Deportivo, and Atletico weren't going to be able to purchase Zidane, Figo, etc. We spent tons of money on one player each year, players that mid-level clubs had no chance of getting. We were only competing with similarly-funded clubs -- the ManU's, AC Milans, Bayern's, etc. When Chelsea bid on non-superstar players like Scott Parker, Mateja Kezman, Geremi, etc., you are in direct competition with smaller and mid-level clubs, and Roman's checkbook gives those clubs almost no chance. The transfer market has actually gone down a bit since around 4-5 years ago, when records were breaking very consistently, both salary and transfer-fee wise. The financial problems of Lazio, Leeds, etc. caused changes to be made and more precautions taken. I don't recall a situation where Real officials have been caught talking to other teams' players in public. I might be wrong... Geremi too, but he was on loan at Boro anyway. The fact that Real's players are more loyal than average does not make Chelsea's tactics more admirable...they still tried to buy most of our starting lineup. Part of it is that, but part of it is also the arrogance that a lot of people percieve coming from Chelsea and it's fans. The brash way that transfers are wrought, the constant complaining about refereeing, opposing coaching, etc. by Mourinho and others, etc. seem a bit much for a club that, no offense, has yet to win anything in Europe. I think that Chelsea are, and will continue to be, a major European power, but many Chelsea fans act as if they have already won multiple CLs, multiple EPLs recently, etc. I, and others I'm sure, really do appreciate this last part. A lot of people come to the Real board to simply antagonize and harrass us, so its good to see a fan of another team come to the Real board to defend there team, and no more.
Oh, come now. That's not accurate, now is it? For one, Chelsea can only sign so many players per season. So if Charlton can't keep Scott Parker, so what? That's one drop in a giant ocean. That logic does not work. Also, you're ignoring the fact that Real bought many players for smaller amounts. At the time, other clubs couldn't afford to do this because buying someone like, say, Makelele, for 7M (I believe that's what it was) is perfectly fine for Real, but it would be potentially ruinous for Depor, since he'd be their only signing. Smaller clubs can't afford to buy a lot of expensive players, even if not at the level of Figo or Drogba. The playing field has always been tilted. Roman didn't do anything about this. I think it has a lot more to do with the lack of money in the game from lower TV revenue deals. Well, Marca and As certainly have a unique way of pinpointing Real's targets. Talk to Arsenal fans, see what they think about your pursuit of Vieira. Ashley Cole asked to talk to US, after all. The statement that every single Real player had an offer from Chelsea is absolutely false. Just completely false. There were, for instance, completely spurious rumors about Roberto Carlos, which were almost certainly originated by his agent to get more money from Real. say what you will about Chelsea and Mourinho, they don't buy old. Claude is the only player we have over 30. To suggest we offered every single Real player is simply false. Sure, there may be some arrogant Chelsea fans. But which ones? We've never invaded your forums, we've never attacked Real. I really don't understand where this notion is coming from. If anything, longtime Chelsea fans (like me, to an extent) still don't quite believe we won the league. Well, I think Butterfingers is also a Real fan. I'm not though. And I will add that I'm surprised and impressed that I haven't seen hordes of Real fans giving me neg rep for my argument with Iberian. Because my argument is with Iberian, not with Real Madrid. If bring up something like Franco, its only to show that its hypocritical for Iberian to suggest we're guilty of nefarious plots to control the sporting world. I don't care how Real got where they are today, but I respect their history. However, Iberian spits out misinformation by the pageful, much of it frankly libelous against my club. Sorry, that's a bit much to swallow. So again, fair play to all Real fans, and if Sinko or C-towner want to close this thread - be my guests. (Not that you need my permission, of course. )
Or, in the case of Carvalho, he saw the opportunity to do both. You should post more on the CFC boards, btw.